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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently purchased a colossal project of a boat from an insurance auction. Needless to say a lot of the things you hope to find in any used boat purchase aren't there. Of particular concern were the sails. Luckily I tracked down the previous owner who still has the sails and said he's willing to give me a good price. Neither of us have any experience in buying/selling used sails so we agreed to do some independent research to find out what these things are worth.

The boat is a 2006 Beneteau 373. He has the original mainsail, genoa, and a spinnaker (or gennakar?). Looks like the boat was well taken care of so I’m sure the sails are in equally good condition.

Anyone make similar purchases in recent years? Any idea what these are worth? High-end? Low-end? Fair price?
 

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Administrator
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Google Bacon Sails in Annapolis. They sell used sails and their site allows you to put in the parameters and return different prices for different condition sails. It's a starting point. I'm sure there are others out there.
 

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One of None
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Many online used sail sellers have lists that can be searched for just about any boat. Prices vary. I personally have used Bacon Sails in Annapolis MD
This may work. Sail search page Looks like they have changed the website
 

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Barquito
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Freedom isn't free
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Price a set of similar build new sails.

then take off 10% the purchase price for each yeah they are old. Yep if they are over 10 years old they'll be paying YOU to take them.
 

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HANUMAN
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I would start my search on Craigslist. It's springtime, you might get lucky then have something to compare to.

Edit:

Or price out a new set (offshore loft, cheap) cut that in half. Then price out a sail loft cleaning, inspection and doing a few minor repairs, then reduce that.

Considering he won't have to do any of the sales work, it's probably a good deal for the seller.

Here is my best guess: New set of discount mail order set of three sails:
6500/2 = 3250
-500 per sail for cleaning and repair

If think if they are in decent shape and you offer him $1500 cash, it will leave you some wiggle room and you both might be happy.
 

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Here is a tip, the first to mention a price, loses. I priced the sails at Bacon. The price depends on condition, options, manufacture and cloth weight. Maybe you all could take them to Bacon, have the sails apprised for a fee, Bacon makes an offer then you add a few bucks to Bacon's offer. If I was to take a WAG I wouldn't pay anymore than 300 to 500 per sail assuming they are usable and in good condition.
 

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al brazzi
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He should give you the sails, if it was an insurance transaction he was paid for them once already. Not being a dick but you need to know where you are on the negotiating spectrum. On the other hand 11 year old lightly used sails can be a bargain, trouble is you don't know how much use they have seen without an inspection. It would be $12-15K maybe a lot more, worth of Sails new.
 

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HANUMAN
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He should give you the sails, if it was an insurance transaction he was paid for them once already. Not being a dick but you need to know where you are on the negotiating spectrum. On the other hand 11 year old lightly used sails can be a bargain, trouble is you don't know how much use they have seen without an inspection. It would be $12-15K maybe a lot more, worth of Sails new.
I thought about that, but I'm not convinced they are definitely part of the insurance payout. They give you the hull value plus whatever extras you pay for in your policy.

New sails or no sails or destroyed sails may not mean you will get a different dollar amount from the insurance payout... I'm on the fence with this one, although I do see your point.

I think this could be a bit different than unbolting winches and electronics before the adjuster shows up.
 

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I agree about getting some prices on new ones for the boat. Just use the online pricers from Hyde Sails Direct, FX Sails, etc. Then it's a matter of figuring out how much below that these used ones are worth. If very lightly used, then maybe 50% of the lowest online price. If well used, maybe 10% assuming you can get a couple more years out of them.
 

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Master Mariner
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When I was looking for a used mainsail, I found one in a shop in Texas that sounded too good to be true. Being in the Caribbean and therefore unable to view the sail personally, I hired a sailmaker in Texas to go look at it. It WAS too good to be true and instead of dumping a grand or so into a poor sail and another $500 into a recut to fit our boat, I got off with only the sailmaker's fee of us$75.00.
Hire a professional to look at the sails with you and go with his recommendation of value and shape.
 
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Old enough to know better
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It seems to me that the sails should be included with the boat. The previous owner received insurance money for the boat and all of it's components. I can understand removing personal possessions, and even there it becomes a grey area as to what is a personal possession, and what is "essential" equipment, such as say binoculars, handheld VHF, GPS unit or safety equipment. But I don't think one could argue that sails are not equipment of the boat, and are personal possessions. That is like accepting the payment for a car that was totaled then removing the convertible top, and tires and wheels. I don't think they are going to let you do that.
 

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al brazzi
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It seems to me that the sails should be included with the boat. The previous owner received insurance money for the boat and all of it's components. I can understand removing personal possessions, and even there it becomes a grey area as to what is a personal possession, and what is "essential" equipment, such as say binoculars, handheld VHF, GPS unit or safety equipment. But I don't think one could argue that sails are not equipment of the boat, and are personal possessions. That is like accepting the payment for a car that was totaled then removing the convertible top, and tires and wheels. I don't think they are going to let you do that.
I agree there's a grey area there, and the PO knows his best customer is the guy that just bought the boat, and if you just bought the boat and you know where the sails are then...

Really it gets weird when the guy that bought the Boat knows who you are. I think the OP has the Info he needs to make a deal.
 

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That is like accepting the payment for a car that was totaled then removing the convertible top, and tires and wheels. I don't think they are going to let you do that.
Actually, it's more like removing the MOTOR from the car. Can't hardly sail a SAILboat without sails.

The insurance value is all of the components of the boat, the exception is personal items, of which sails are not. They are an integral part of the boat's systems, and are the means of propulsion.

The sails should go with the boat.
 

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al brazzi
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Short of calling the guy on insurance fraud,, Its done now. Different people will handle it differently. Like I said the OP has what he needs to make the deal after all it is his deal.
 

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so if you have a sports car with a hard top and the top is in the garage when the car is in an accident and totaled. do you give the top to the insurance company. you bought it as an option therefor is it personal equipment? are sails personal equipment? what if there are several sets of sails for the boat but not onboard during the accident. what if the sails were purchased after the boat was insured. why does a sailboat need sails, only if you are going to sail the boat do you need sails, maybe the PO just used it as a power boat and did not know how to sail. If the OP buys the sails that should have come with the boat is he part of the insurance fraud? did he buy stolen goods. will he will have to watch out for the sail police.
look at the sails and if they are not in prefect condition don't pay any more then 10% of new. Its a sailboat and the sails should be in the best condition of any item on the boat. never understood why people will speed so much on stuff for their sailboat and have the crappiest sails you have ever seen.
 

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Old enough to know better
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so if you have a sports car with a hard top and the top is in the garage when the car is in an accident and totaled. do you give the top to the insurance company. you bought it as an option therefor is it personal equipment? are sails personal equipment? what if there are several sets of sails for the boat but not onboard during the accident. what if the sails were purchased after the boat was insured. why does a sailboat need sails, only if you are going to sail the boat do you need sails, maybe the PO just used it as a power boat and did not know how to sail. If the OP buys the sails that should have come with the boat is he part of the insurance fraud? did he buy stolen goods. will he will have to watch out for the sail police.
look at the sails and if they are not in prefect condition don't pay any more then 10% of new. Its a sailboat and the sails should be in the best condition of any item on the boat. never understood why people will speed so much on stuff for their sailboat and have the crappiest sails you have ever seen.
Well yes, if the car is going to be parted out/repaired you should give the hard top to the insurance company assuming you received payment for the value of the car with the optional hard top. After dealing with insurance companies you would have to insist they pay for the value with the top for them to pay it, so of course they would likely demand getting it, but more likely they will reduce the payout to the value of the car without the top.

Of course the insurance claim may well have said this boat has a $50,000 for the Blue book value of the boat, but we are subtracting $5,000 because there are no sails so here is a check for $45,000. In that case the sails would still belong to the DPO. If they really do belong to the insurance company, your right purchasing them might be construed as participating in insurance fraud, hum interesting.

If you are going to pay for the sails, you might want to call Bacon sails and ask what they would offer to buy the sails (after inspecting the ones the owner has) and not offer him more than that, as that is all he is likely to get for them if you don't buy them. I would be surprised if they are not in excellent shape if they were stored off the boat off season, so it might be worth giving them some money for them.
 

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al brazzi
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Well yes, if the car is going to be parted out/repaired you should give the hard top to the insurance company assuming you received payment for the value of the car with the optional hard top. After dealing with insurance companies you would have to insist they pay for the value with the top for them to pay it, so of course they would likely demand getting it, but more likely they will reduce the payout to the value of the car without the top.

Of course the insurance claim may well have said this boat has a $50,000 for the Blue book value of the boat, but we are subtracting $5,000 because there are no sails so here is a check for $45,000. In that case the sails would still belong to the DPO. If they really do belong to the insurance company, your right purchasing them might be construed as participating in insurance fraud, hum interesting.

If you are going to pay for the sails, you might want to call Bacon sails and ask what they would offer to buy the sails (after inspecting the ones the owner has) and not offer him more than that, as that is all he is likely to get for them if you don't buy them. I would be surprised if they are not in excellent shape if they were stored off the boat off season, so it might be worth giving them some money for them.
If we use your scenario I would give them the sails back if they deducted $5000 for them, doubt it happened that way. Beating a dead hoarse here but I had a Roadster a few years back with a hardtop I bought and sold while owning the car so it wasn't part of the car in that respect. Lets face it a lot of us (not me:laugh)have manipulated transactions such as these and it just happens. Like I said the awkward part is when the buyer and the PO start dealing with each other. I know if I bought a Boat with NO sails I would be getting a deal or I wouldn't do it so its already in the buyers mind. You are planning on replacing all of them anyway so a good set is just a bonus, the buyer might just get off pretty well in the deal.
 

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10 year old sails for a Beneteau 373 that have been on the boom or furled up the fore-stay-thingy are not worth a pinch of Mums worst dinner.

I would make what appears a low-ball offer of $100 each. But its not really low ball at all. Its probably close to the real value once you have freighted them home.

I would think a new Neil Pride 373 main would be about $1,500 and genny $1,700. Not that much... so 10 years on the mast can't be worth much.

Btw before saying something like 'I'll just get the UV strip redone' get a quote... u are unlikely to get that for under $800... half the price of a new genoa.
 
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