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· One of None
Hunter 34
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
C/B - centerboard S/K= swing keel

I've pretty much decided my next boat will (if, maybe, :D ) be 33ft or larger, with a CB like the vintage pearsons. I had a hunter 23 before my fin keeled Oday 30 and I liked the way the S/K (swing keel) worked and allowed for shallow draft. But that was a small boat!

I would love to hear the problems!

How did you solve said problems?

Are (in your opinion) CBs and SWs a viable choice for coastal crusing and shallow bays?

What kind of "high tech" ideas could be applied to CBs and SKs?
example: depth sensor auto retract :rolleyes:

:laugher my boat is only on the hard one day, and i'm already catching up on my forums!
 

· Banned
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Denise,

We have a c/b 35 C&C mkIII. It is great. There is no noise or rattleing of the C/B or problems raising or lowering it as it is done with a line on a winch on the cabin top. It takes our relatively shoal 4'5" to 6'8".

Huge difference in heeling close hauled on winds greater than 15 knots and helps with pointing ability. When the winds pipe up we just drop it down.
 

· One of None
Hunter 34
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
tommays, I never would have thought of that! Would high content copper paint help? sprayed in?
 

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I am sure it can be kept under control BUT it would require the boat being lifted enough to fully lower the board so the slot and board can be painted

I think you would have to really let it get out of control to require the saw BUT :)
 

· Tartan 27' owner
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Denise,
Our Tartan 27' has a mostly full keel with a centerboard (C/B). With the board up we draw about 3'6", with it down we draw about 6'. I am quite partial to this design feature as in shallow areas the board will hit the bottom first but can always be raised to get off the bottom - it doubles as a kind of primitive depth meter. I am pretty sure that the C/B for this boat was originally designed to break away in the case of a hard grounding so as not to rupture the trunk. I believe our C/B weighs a little over 100#.
Our boat will sail to weather with the board up but will make a lot more leeway (sliding) without the board deployed. Our board does not lock in place when fully deployed and can swing back up into the trunk, which is not a good thing in rough weather as the board is free to swing about as the boat rocks. I have never experienced conditions where this would be a problem yet. A mechanism for locking the board in place would be better for blue water activities. Until then I can always pull my board up and slide a little.
I have always thought that a C/B was indicative of a light weight protrusion from the keel and a swing keel (S/K) was a much heavier (lets say sever hundred #s) affair. There is also the term 'dagger board' which mostly applies to wind surfers or board sailors - just to clutter up the issue.
In any case, C/B and S/K are largely used interchangeably although I believe this is a bit imprecise.
 

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Then there is a retractable keel. My Etap 26 keel has bulb which weighs 1500 lb and is raised straight up and down by a powered screw. Because it travels straight up and down there is very little change in trim up or down, just a changing in heeling and pointing. It was nice when I came down to the boat and it wouldn't even rock because it was solidly perched on the bottom. I just pushed the button until we were bobbing again.

Gary H. Lucas
 

· One of None
Hunter 34
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Gary... I'd love to see pictures of that one!
my Lil hunter 23 had a SK I didn't lock but I know the laterial pressures kept it locked in the down postion. It could only be raised when in slack water or when docked.
 

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Clearwater 35

I have a 35' swing keel sailboat the model is named Clearwater and it was built by Holby Marine in Bristol, RI back in the late 80's and early 90's. They only made 7 of the 35' version, there was also a 45' version.



The keel is nearly 4,000 lbs of lead and it swings almost entirely up into the central salon area (there is an 8" wide water tight trunk that divides the salon in two). With the keel up (the rudder also kicks up) the boat draws 1'10" (you read that right) and with it down about 6'. The original owner had it commissioned to explore the many small creeks and rivers along the coast in Maine. We purchased the boat last year for use in North Carolina where we live on a creek that can get pretty shallow (2-3') depending on how the winds blows.

I have only had the boat a year and so my experience is limited. The keel is raised using a 2 speed winch on the cabin top. It takes some effort that could be reduced if that winch were electric. The boat is designed to sail with the keel at any position, but you do sacrifice leeway with it up. Dropping the keel definitely stabilizes the boat and makes heading to wind possible. Downwind it runs fast with the keel up. And it motors well with keel up as well.



this is what the keel looks like partially raised. It has a foil shape, so it provides the forces of a full keel. I have no problem with barnacles as the keel fits the slot tight and is self cleaning when lowering (4,000 lbs removes anything in its path)

The keel will swing up if you should run aground on something hard. There is a hydraulic system that prevents the keel from just dropping back down after going over an obstacle. The PO found out the hard way that when the keel just drops it puts too much strain on the keel pin and other structures. So the hydraulics were added to slowly lower the keel from any raised position.

There are modern manufacturers that make similar designs (Southerly of the UK is one).

We are very happy with this boat, we could not have this size boat in our creek without the swing keel (except for cats of course).
 

· One of None
Hunter 34
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
CapnRon.. now that is shallow draft!
 

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I have a 35' swing keel sailboat the model is named Clearwater and it was built by Holby Marine in Bristol, RI back in the late 80's and early 90's. They only made 7 of the 35' version, there was also a 45' version.



The keel is nearly 4,000 lbs of lead and it swings almost entirely up into the central salon area (there is an 8" wide water tight trunk that divides the salon in two). With the keel up (the rudder also kicks up) the boat draws 1'10" (you read that right) and with it down about 6'. The original owner had it commissioned to explore the many small creeks and rivers along the coast in Maine. We purchased the boat last year for use in North Carolina where we live on a creek that can get pretty shallow (2-3') depending on how the winds blows.

I have only had the boat a year and so my experience is limited. The keel is raised using a 2 speed winch on the cabin top. It takes some effort that could be reduced if that winch were electric. The boat is designed to sail with the keel at any position, but you do sacrifice leeway with it up. Dropping the keel definitely stabilizes the boat and makes heading to wind possible. Downwind it runs fast with the keel up. And it motors well with keel up as well.



this is what the keel looks like partially raised. It has a foil shape, so it provides the forces of a full keel. I have no problem with barnacles as the keel fits the slot tight and is self cleaning when lowering (4,000 lbs removes anything in its path)

The keel will swing up if you should run aground on something hard. There is a hydraulic system that prevents the keel from just dropping back down after going over an obstacle. The PO found out the hard way that when the keel just drops it puts too much strain on the keel pin and other structures. So the hydraulics were added to slowly lower the keel from any raised position.

There are modern manufacturers that make similar designs (Southerly of the UK is one).

We are very happy with this boat, we could not have this size boat in our creek without the swing keel (except for cats of course).
Ron,

I'm glad you posted to this thread. When I read Denise's question, I immediately thought of your boat.

Would you be willing to post up some interior photos again? I thought the way they integrated the swing keel trunk into the cabin space made for an interesting layout, showing that a little unconventional thinking can create some clever solutions.

Denise, I shy away from moving parts in my keel systems, but for coastal shallow estuary sailing (chesapeake, etc) they really do make a lot of sense.
 

· One of None
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hey John, I hear yah on that. And I've done ok with my 4'11" draft on my O-30 when on the chessy. But I do like the idea of getting in the more shallow places someday.

Ron that's a beautiful boat!
 

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Clearwater 35

I am always glad to share photo's of our "HERON," but as I have said before most of the credit goes to the original owner who really kept her in beautiful condition. I only hope I can continue to do half as well.

While we sacrifice a large open salon, she has a very nice cockpit that not only has a built in snack table, but there is a full size table top that mates to it to provide full dinning capability in the cockpit



Down below the keel trunk is a semicircular wall that rises from the bilge a couple of feet aft of the companionway up to the keel stepped mast in the fwd cabin. the trunk divides the salon area, on the strbd side is a settee that provides dinner seating down below as well as a nav station. The Nav station desk is mounted on the trunk.



Fwd of that on strbd is a walk thru head.



The Fwd cabin with lots of storage under the mattresses, a wet locker and storage shelves.



Coming out of the fwd cabin on Port you enter the galley.



With fridge, sink and double stove with oven. The keel trunk is used for storing dinner dishes, cups and spices on conveniently located shelves.

There is another settee with room for a couple of people.

From that settee looking fwd thru the galley you can see the table top for the cockpit behind the galley door and half of the salon dining table top mounted along the keel trunk below the cups.



The dining table slides out into the open space in front of the companionway on both sides of the trunk and swings up to a full table that can seat 6 (two each on Port and Strbd Settee and two additional seats that slide out of the aft quarter berths.



there are quarter berths on both Port and Strbd. So while we sacrifice an open salon it is still very functional space. Besides, the boat is plenty big enough for just the two of us, which is how we travel most of the time.

We had a great time sailing her from CT, where we purchased her last year, down to NC.



where we keep her at the dock at our house in Oriental.



My work on her this year has been to add an autopilot so that I can single handle her for day sailing. Which I have done and completed my first solo sail just this past summer. Now it is time to start working on the exterior teak, always something.

cheers,
 

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Our 1972 Bristol 32 has a full keel with C/B. Draft is 3'6" up and 7'6" down. We lower and raise the C/B with a manual winch in the port lazarette. The winch is in an awkward location and I'm thinking about replacing it with a small electric winch.

The only down side we've found is the previous owner cut the centerboard cable tube to replace a broken cable. The repair failed over time and the tube was repeatedly patched. After I discovered the leak I had our marina replace the tube. You can read the whole story about our repair here.

I have to remember to lower the C/B while motoring out of our marina because on any tack except running there is too much pressure on the C/B to completely lower it on the first try.
 

· Handsome devil
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Glad to have it! ............. I think?

Although the PNW is noted as a deep water area it is amazing how many anchorages and shallow inlets we have to explore and a few marina entrances as well get shoaled up between dredging...We are 4.5 up and 10.6 down. I really do not have the experience with this boat yet to tell you much about the differences it has on pointing or leeway up or down...but I can tell you our particular boat could loose it offshore with little self righting effects..We have been out in 47 knots with it up having a grand ol time.

It weighs 1000 lbs and winches up all but the last 18" easily..it did make some noise tacking when we first bought the bought as the wear bushings were wore out but I had it dropped out of the boat and completely reconditioned so it has no play anymore so should be very quite and firm in place.

Barnacles were an issue once...we forgot to lower it in the slings during spring launching and it gets shoved up in the trunk sitting on the keel in the yard further then you can winch it up buy a few inches so it wedged in there due to barnacles up in the trunk. I had to ask erps to free it one day when he was diving on his own boat..he said he barely did anything but it was enough to free it.

EDIT...IF you look close at my Avitar you can see it hanging down past the edge of the dock.
 

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It is surprising how many larger boats are centerboarders. Most of the old coasting schooners that were the trade mechanism for many years had centerboards and didn't draw more than 5' or so board up. For anyone who has taken a trip on one of the Maine windjammers, about half of them have boards.

They can certainly be handy in shallow water because of acting as a primitive depth sounder and also a brake or pivot point when maneuvering. It can be unpleasant if you get a pot buoy in the trunk and try to raise the board really jamming it in there. I suspect that this won't happen on fiberglass production boats because of the board being a lot narrower but it is a problem with the big wooden boards.

Be careful of the pin that it hinges on as well. They do wear out if they are of the wrong material and it is never fun to have the board fall out.
 
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