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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, I've got another dumb question: Is it possible to remove the lower swaged fitting from a forestay (diy or by a rigger) without damaging the wire it is holding?

If so, can another swaged fitting be installed over that same (previously swaged) wire?

The reason I ask is that I have my mast down for the first time. I have looked over all my standing rigging and everything looks to be in good shape. However, I can't see the forestay inside the furling foil and it can't be removed without removing one of the end fittings. I would like the swaged fitting removed so that I can inspect and clean the wire.

(Also I would like to shorten it 3/4" so that I can apply more tension at the furling gear - Harken Mk I. )

Fitting below next to tape measure if that helps any..
 

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It cannot be done the way you want to do it.

It can be done by cutting the wire at the top of the swage but the wire will be shorter by approximately 2" or whatever the length of the swage is.

I would have thought that at least one end of a forestay with a furler would have a mechanical fitting instead of a swage - Norseman, Sta-Lok or Hi Mod.
 

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Mitiempo-

Those rigging fittings are (relatively) new developments in standing rigging. There are a lot of people still sailing on old wire that pre-dates those.

Not to mention, they are expensive and some people will simply pay to have a swage installed and use link plates and turnbuckles to achieve the desired length.

To the OP:
Can you re-use the wire? I have mixed feelings on this.

On one hand, it is very difficult to adequately inspect the wire for internal corrosion or fatigue. You can inspect for obvious damage like broken strands though.

On the other hand, the lower swage is often the one that gets all the corrosion and damage because it's at deck-level where it gets physically struck the most, and water runs down the wire, into/onto the swage.
Water runs down, AWAY from the upper swage on the mast.
So theoretically, if you cut off the lower swage and put on a Hi-Mod fitting, you should be ok.

The thing I hate about standing rigging and fittings, is that it takes dye and x-rays to properly inspect it, something most people won't bother with or don't have access to. When it fails, there is almost never any warning. Just "BAM!" and the mast comes down.

Re-using wire is kind of like putting used brake pads on your car. You could get away with it, but it's not really smart.

I'll add one caveat- If the wire is new-ish, and you're just making some kind of equipment change, and you know the history of the wire and fittings, it's probably safe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you all for the input; that's kind of what I was expecting. I'll look to see if I can find a mechanical fitting that is longer than my current swaged one (to make up for the cut length).

If I can't find one I may just have to trust that the forestay is good since the rest of it looks to be in very good shape.
 

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Thank you all for the input; that's kind of what I was expecting. I'll look to see if I can find a mechanical fitting that is longer than my current swaged one (to make up for the cut length).

If I can't find one I may just have to trust that the forestay is good since the rest of it looks to be in very good shape.
get a norseman or similar LONG STUD that way you make up length and have a better terminal

make sure you know what lay you have

i can load up some pics as i just did this yesterday

:)
 

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if you just want to shorten then just add a mechanical terminal...the sta loks are thinner than norsemans so they will not interfere with your furler
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
get a norseman or similar LONG STUD that way you make up length and have a better terminal

make sure you know what lay you have

i can load up some pics as i just did this yesterday

:)
Pics would be great to help me decide if this is diy job or more fit for rigger.

Where did you buy your mechanical fitting from?
 

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my internet is slow...but Ill load them for you no prob

best prices and awesome service is riggingonly.com...you speak to real riggers and owners

I had it forwarded to me in el salvador...just did 2 intermediate stays for my islander 36 yesterday

you just need a bolt cutter or a grinder to cut the wire...everything else is as DIY an easy as you ca imagine

here ya go:


6mm stud for 1/4 inch wire...I had weird 7/16ths pins at the chainplate, I would of like half inch better but no probs

this is the terminal almost completely torqued down...

notice red loctite color around last threads

I sealed them up with sikaflex, the more the better as it will push up into the wire and prevent water intrusion which according to norseman and most riggers will deterriorate lifespan by as much as 30 percent or so

cheers
 

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another pic showing how the threads should form over the cone...this is perfect...I filed the sharp edges if the strands too as they can get caught in the stud...so the smother and tighter everything is the better



norseman says to preform the wires as tightly as you can assemble terminal(I use loctite each time) and go 2 or 3 turns...is resistance is small you are good...and can go all the way or almost all the way

the you unthread check wire end(like this pic shows) and seal with your favouriite non corrosive sealant

then you tighten down if right hand lay wire you just turn the stud not the base...

and go all the way with AMPLE loctite or similar in the threads...sealant will ooze out of cone and wire and cleanup as you go

with stainless threads its imperative to never ever go all the way at once...you must inch your way slowly that way excess heat will not gall threads

cheers and good luck

ps. Ill be doing my upper stays but simply reusing the wire and terminal...I bought new cones from rigging only and since the wire is hefty and still good it will just be new cones and sealant...Ill lose maybe an inch length but my turnbuckles allow for that

christian
 
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Google "hi mod installation video" to watch the Hayn Hi-Mod video on how to install one of their fittings. Ridiculously simple, and quick.
 

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I would of loved hi mods...but I already had norsemans on MOST of my rigging so simplicity and redundancy took over me...

hi mods are next if I do my backstay or something

cheers
 

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First, here is a link to your furler manual if you do not have one.

Harken Mark1 Owners Manual

Several pages of the manual are devoted to Norseman and StaLok fittings.

If you are going to use a mechanical fitting, use a Hayn Hi Mod. They are less expensive than both Norseman and StaLok and are easier to use. Most who have used a Hayn prefer them. They recommend not using a sealant as it can trap water where it can cause corrosion. Best to keep it open for drainage. Wire forming is not required with Hayn fittings.

Hi-MOD Fittings by Hayn Marine

Mechanical fittings were available long before 1981 - the year of the po's boat, and I doubt the furler is original.

With the mast down it would be a good idea to replace the forestay wire. Unlike the rest of the rigging it won't be available for inspection once the rig is up again.
 

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all true points...having said that not all manufacturers have the same info or recomendations..., so use the mechanical fitting you like and get a best deal on...they are all decent if not excellent

my norsemans for example back in the 90s tested out at roughly 80percent of wire strength not too good...

then they improved them a bit especialy regarding threads and galling and then recomended sealant to prevent water INTRUSION

some terminals are better thatn others at trapping water...

on my forestay I have a nice sta lok fitting Im assuming for a reason since up top its a norseman

sta loks are straight and thin and for a forestay at least at the lower terminal this makes abslute sense...

just make sure your current wire has no meathooks and is pliable and soft...if rusted and or stiff it means its time to get new wire...even if you are using mechanical fittings
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ok, I'm going to do this. The idea of not (at least) inspecting the forestay doesn't sit well with me.

This mechanical stud fitting needs to slide up inside the foil for my furling gear, so the size of the fitting will be critical. Next weekend I'll go down to the boat to verify the wire size and measure the space inside the foil so that I can order the correct fitting.

Mitiempo,

Thanks for the manual. I had read it and was really expecting to see a mechanical fitting under the foil. I was surprised and frustrated to see a swaged fitting there.
 

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I would expect that any busy pro rigger could tell you whether or not your furler foil will clear the a particular mechanical fitting, as they've probably dealt with this issue many times.
 

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If you are going to use a mechanical fitting, use a Hayn Hi Mod. They are less expensive than both Norseman and StaLok and are easier to use. Most who have used a Hayn prefer them. They recommend not using a sealant as it can trap water where it can cause corrosion. Best to keep it open for drainage.
The question of weather to use sealant on a Hi Mod was asked on Brian Toss web site "Spar Talk". Brian highly recommends sealant (3M 4000). He says in England (where Hi Mods are made) it rains enough to not need sealant, but in an area that is warm and tropical selant is need or corrosion will occur inside the fitting.

The Hi Mod link states:
http://hayn.com/marine/rigging/himod.html
"With the use of these materials, we do not require the use of sealant in our fittings. You can, however, fill them with a non-acidic polysulfide or better marine-grade sealant."
 
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