[Nostrodamus]

I will say from the beginning I am a Brit although I have spent a long time using firearms.
This is not a pro or anti gun question but a valid question.
When cruising around the world 90% of countries and places you may visit along the way may be perfectly safe and may also require you to hand your firearm in.
Are there any circumstances where cruisers carrying or using a firearm has made a real difference in protecting them.
On the other hand are they more trouble than they are worth and can they lead to your demise?

 

[Minnewaska]

We're not allowed to discuss guns here, for any reason. You'll see.

I do think you ask a perfectly legitimate question. I'm not aware of anyone successfully defending themselves aboard with a firearm, but how would I? Where would such information be available, other than rumor?

They are only viable in the hands of someone properly trained. You need to be very knowledgeable of whether it will just escalate the problem or whether you've cornered the dog. The old adage works. You should only bring a gun out when you're ready to fire. That's going to be awfully rare. Admittedly, if I found myself in that rare situation, I would wish I had one.

Ironically, I was just telling my wife at dinner last night that it was futile to bring a gun along when distance cruising. She was insisting that we do anyway and keep it in the safe aboard. Her logic is that I am fully trained (even won some awards) and she would feel safer if I had access. I tried to explain that it was a criminal offense in too many places, or you would be required to surrender it anyway, and thought she would shrug it off. Nope. She said there has to be a place to hide one. I said a dog would sniff it out and she didn't budge. She's generally pretty liberal too. I was laughing that I was the one telling her we weren't going to have one outside the US/Bahamas.

 

[MikeGuyver]

Hasn't this dog been beat enough? Accept the country's laws or stay out of their country.
How simple and clear does it have to be before people understand?

 

[JonEisberg]

Hasn't this dog been beat enough? Accept the country's laws or stay out of their country.
How simple and clear does it have to be before people understand?

Exactly... Or, another approach, might be to avoid sailing to destinations where you might feel at too great a risk without a firearm, to begin with...

Perhaps we should start a pool, on how long this thread lasts? I say it's gone before sundown today, EDT...

 

[Minnewaska]

.......Perhaps we should start a pool, on how long this thread lasts? I say it's gone before sundown today, EDT...

I'm in. I say it won't make sundown.

 

[Minnewaska]

Hasn't this dog been beat enough? Accept the country's laws or stay out of their country.
How simple and clear does it have to be before people understand?

That's like asking every single first grade student why they don't already know everything that was taught to everyone before them.

However, I suspect your reaction is the reason these valid discussions get banned.

 

[travlin-easy]

 

[vega1860]

Bears.

 

[Tenoch]

Guns don't kill threads, people talking about guns kills threads.

 

[PaulinVictoria]

Put some popcorn on Gary, I'll grab some beers.

 

[MedSailor]

It may help to think of the gun as a tool for a specific purpose instead of a GUN! with all that surrounds that particular noun.

It is a tool, and it has fitness for one purpose only. I think of it much like a fire extinguisher. It's okay for what it's designed to do, but useless for anything else. Much like the fire extinguisher you can have arguments about how long it takes the police/fire dept to arrive, but in either self defense, or fire, the cavalry are better suited to the job than the person with the extinguisher/gun. Also, in both cases there is an argument to be made that in some situations it will take too long for the cavalry to arrive before damage is done.

I carry several high quality extinguishers aboard, because I feel the risk of fire vs the PITA of carrying extinguishers and the consideration of how long it takes for the cavalry to arrive. There's really very little downside to carrying an extinguisher, so I do.

I don't carry a fire extinguisher on my person in the city all the time because the equation doesn't work out in my reckoning.

Guns come with more PITA than extinguishers do. Outside the USA, much much MUCH more PITA. For me that outweighs the usefulness of having them aboard for the low risk areas I cruise. I may reconsider the equation if I were in bear or pirate infested waters.

There was a time where I did carry a gun (with permit) on my person all the time in the city, but now I tend to just avoid any area where I feel I would "need" it and for the low crime areas it's a little too much like carrying an extinguisher around for me to feel it is useful.

MedSailor.

 

[donjuanluis]

IMHO, no reason at all. I think being in a legal position won't match the fire or gun power of real criminals. Too much hassle with regulations on most of the places around the world. The only reason I could have one for in my boat is to make noise, or call the atenttion, but a good set of noisy fire crackers would do the same. There is an intersting story on the book Across Islands and Oceans of James Baldwin (page 54), also The book Seize the day by Shirley Billing and many others...

 

[SHNOOL]

I carry several high quality extinguishers aboard...

Me too.

 

[JonEisberg]

It may help to think of the gun as a tool for a specific purpose instead of a GUN! with all that surrounds that particular noun.

It is a tool, and it has fitness for one purpose only. I think of it much like a fire extinguisher. It's okay for what it's designed to do, but useless for anything else. Much like the fire extinguisher you can have arguments about how long it takes the police/fire dept to arrive, but in either self defense, or fire, the cavalry are better suited to the job than the person with the extinguisher/gun. Also, in both cases there is an argument to be made that in some situations it will take too long for the cavalry to arrive before damage is done.

I carry several high quality extinguishers aboard, because I feel the risk of fire vs the PITA of carrying extinguishers and the consideration of how long it takes for the cavalry to arrive. There's really very little downside to carrying an extinguisher, so I do.

I don't carry a fire extinguisher on my person in the city all the time because the equation doesn't work out in my reckoning.

Guns come with more PITA than extinguishers do. Outside the USA, much much MUCH more PITA. For me that outweighs the usefulness of having them aboard for the low risk areas I cruise. I may reconsider the equation if I were in bear or pirate infested waters.

There was a time where I did carry a gun (with permit) on my person all the time in the city, but now I tend to just avoid any area where I feel I would "need" it and for the low crime areas it's a little too much like carrying an extinguisher around for me to feel it is useful.

MedSailor.

Damn, if folks keep replying in such a sober, levelheaded fashion, this thread might actually last beyond sunset...



The OP's question about "validity" is a highly subjective and personal one, of course... If anyone truly feels they need to have a gun while cruising, well, that certainly seems "valid" enough, to me... I may not share that view given the sort of cruising I prefer to do, or the experiences I've had in certain areas, but to dismiss someone else's preference as "invalid" seems a bit presumptuous, to me...

 

[eherlihy]

Distress signal?
...

 

[MedSailor]

Damn, if folks keep replying in such a sober, levelheaded fashion, this thread might actually last beyond sunset...

Are you accusing me of being sober??!! I AM a sailor you know! :laugher

MedSailor

 

[MikeOReilly]

I can think of three situations where a gun might be a useful tool. One is if you are travelling in polar bear territory, such as the Northwest Passage. The other is where you are travelling in remote areas and plan to hunt game. The final one, and the one I suspect most people are really thinking about, is for self-defence against nasty people.

In all three cases you are consciously choosing to put yourself into a situation where a gun might be useful. While I can see a few rare cruisers putting themselves in the first two situations, it's hard to understand why anyone would choose the third scenario. These days it is fairly easy to know where the danger zones are for cruisers. They are few, so the answer is simple: don't go there.

Of course, there is the risk of crime and even violence everywhere in the world. But a gun is unlikely to be of much use in the vast majority of those situations. If the gun isn't at your side ready to be used, and if you aren't trained to use it effectively, and if you haven't already been taken by surprise by the assault, it's unlikely to be of much help.

Balanced against this is the very real fact that most countries make it pretty difficult for foreigners to carry guns. And getting caught with one likely means all sorts of legal troubles. On balance, it just seems illogical to carry a gun. There are far better ways to mitigate the risk.

 

[Nostrodamus]

From my perspective in Europe where we cruise at the moment firearms have to be handed in at the first port of call in every country I can think of. In 5 years cruising around Europe never once have I felt the need for one.
We will soon be spreading our wings a little further and crossing to the Caribbean and beyond.
I often read forums in which (mostly Americans it has to be said) feel the need to carry firearms. I don't know why and that is why I am trying to get more information.
I have never heard of or read anyone preventing a life threatening situation by using a gun. There are recorded situations of a gun escalating the situation an making it far worse than it is.
The difficulty I see is being able to decide that a situation is wrong and still having the time to gen a firearm (presumably from a locked safe). If you did not have time to react and were boarded you may well be forced to open the safe and hand the firearm over.
This then may be used on other cruisers in future.
It is really a difficult decision.
I am looking for any advantages but all I see at the moment are the disadvantages.

 

[Stumble]

I don't see the advantage in the Carribean. Even assuming you know how and are willing to use a gun, the reality is that in most places where you might need one you should just avoid. And in the event of boarders... Well they come armed with much bigger guns, a lot more of them, and a lot of people. Unless you are carrying a fire team of Marines with you all armed to the teath anyone who mightbe trouble is going to be better armed anyway.

Best avoid those situations.

 

[Nostrodamus]

Its all here

I saw that... very, very funny but there is a lot of truth in it as well.