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take a look at China's environmental record and reluctance to adopt 21st century emissions management practices.
The problem is they haven't even adopted 20th century pollution control practices.
 

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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
The problem is they haven't even adopted 20th century pollution control practices.
Europe and North America have a longer history of pollution. I remember during the 70's the research showed that average North America had 40 times the impact on the environment as the average Indian. At the time the prevailing thoery of development was that of W. W. Rostow who suggested that third world countries would / should follow the same path as developed countries.



That would include polluting the environment.

Of course, now we want to hamstring that development in ways that never applied to us.

Rostow's stages of growth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BTW - I never did buy into Rostow, but the World Bank and the IMF (both US controlled) did.
 

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Just to side track a bit, I just had an interesting discussion with a person in the oil industry, who opened up my eyes on some of my pre-conceived thoughts.

The discussion we where having involved the sale of Alberta's oil to the States and China.

There may be a time when that discussion just doesn't matter. Russia has a oil shale deposit up to 80 times the size of the Bakken field. There have been 8-10000 wells drilled in the Bakken field in the last 6 years according to him.

That sounds like a lot, but as there is low pressure recovery from them; they may start out at 800 barrels a day, but quickly drop to 80-100 bbl a day.

Now take a look at a well such as BP's Gulf of Mexico's blowout. It was leaking up to 70,000 bbls a day! Six such wells drilled in the Macondso(sp?) area would produce more than all of the Bakken field wells drilled in those past 6 years.

Will the U.S. even need Canada's oil if drilling resumes in the Gulf? Will China need Canada's oil or gas if they can get it from their own deposits they are exploring or Russia's huge shale deposits?

I had no idea that Bakken field had that little productivity per well, or that the BP well had that high a productivity.

There are interesting times ahead, and the oilsands impact may well not be what they were.
 

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Bottom line is we are going to be able to drive and make plastic for a few more years. :) So much for the chicken littles back in the 70's that said we'd have used it all up by now. They had lots of scientific "proof" to back themselves up with as well.
 

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The challenge with environmental, petroleum and political reporting is twofold. Everyone has an agenda, and everyone lies.

For a while "peak oil" was not a theory but was treated as fact, a done deal. Only one problem- we're not there yet, because the theory is based on faulty information.

Some point to the lack of exploration as proof that there is no more oil to be found. That logic applied to your household would mean that because you don't go grocery shopping today, that must mean there are no more groceries or grocery stores.
If we don't need it, why spend the money to go looking for it?
Do you know what Saudi Arabia's, Iran's, Russia's, Canada's or The USA's real, true oil reserves are?
No, you don't. Don't even try to wiki it. Whatever number you find ain't real. It would be a very silly move from a national security standpoint to make true reserves public knowledge. Any ambitious politician with a calculator could divide daily output from reserves and know exactly when to plot his coup, for example.

Jack, respectfully, I don't care what the charts say about how societies have developed in the past, and how much time they need to get up to speed to be responsible earth stewards. China has broken all of the rules of that model.
They created a middle class in less than a DECADE, while still under autocratic central rule. They can't have it both ways. They cannot continue to cry "we cannot comply with western standards of safety and environmental policy, we are a poor developing nation" while at the same time posting the remarkable growth numbers and incredible appetite for consumer goods that they have shown over the past decade.
 

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"Likes to work for a living": The blue collar workers that left all had their union to thank for their job loss. They dropped out of school had no skills and blame everyone around them for their problems. Packed up ran after jobs wherever they could find them out west. Too proud to take labour (and we spell it with a U in this country) jobs here so they are now filled by immigrants. I have absolutely no sympathy for these folks. "Like to work for a living" my ass. Lazy, uneducated, want to hide behind a union. They deserve what they get.

And I said: "the IQ of a grapefruit".
I stand corrected, "I.Q. of a grapefruit" it is, sorry if my mistake caused people to misinterpret your point. They spell labour with a U in my country as well, but I've got better things to to than argue with spell check. It's still a broad brush your using, but as you say, we all get what we deserve eventually.
 
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