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The longevity of the charter business is very sailing related and many come hear for charter advice. It's really too bad that a single poster keeps puking their political/economic opinion all over every thread lately. No amount of editing or polite request has tripped it up at all. Please stop, it's ruining productive threads.
 

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Learning the HARD way...
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@SanderO 's now deleted post (Coop Scoop issue 11) was an interesting read, but not really relevant to this discussion. It would be relevant to the "Economic Cost" discussion. @SanderO - Thanks for sharing. :)
 

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I wonder what this is/will do to the sailing schools. .
It is my guess that sailing schools will be hit even harder than the charter business.
If one can't afford a boat or a vacation on one, then it seems unlikely that they will spend money on a luxury item like sailing lessons.
 

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This is going to hurt all businesses. It is going to use up everyones disposable income. I have a small plumbing business and the phone quit ringing a week ago. The future is very to uncertain to spend unless absolutely necessary. Stay safe everyone.
 

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Every small business I know is currently near dormant, other than grocery stores. The open questions are how many of them can survive the duration of the shut down and how fast will economic activity return, once all are let out of prison.

I fear neither are very good answers and, in hindsight, there will have been a substantially smarter way of going about this.
 

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If almost all commerce is grinding to a halt... people's most basic needs are food, water, a roof over their head. I suppose most businesses can survive without profit... and shut down for even a month or two. I recall in France the country stops except for the tourist/vacation related businesses in August. I don't see why this can't happen anywhere even dropping the tourist businesses.

So much of what we buy and own is debt financed and because of that one needs a revenue stream to service that debt. I don't see a coming stream of charter boat repos coming... or car repos for that matter. Lenders are going to have to sit tight. I know little about finance... but you can't lend money you don't have... unless of course you borrow money to lend and do it for a profit. We have fractional reserve banking which is pretty much a ponzi scheme as far as I can tell as banks consider their liabilities assets!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking

The economic struggle to come is because our entire economy is driven by debt and credit. Before the CCard people had to have cash to make a purchase aside from the big purchases where finance was offered. Banks credit unsecured revolving debt and consumers have been on a non stop buying spree for almost 60 years. Banks irresponsibility has only been duplicated by consumers. Do you blame them? Of course no one would call it a ponzi scheme which "can maintain the illusion of a sustainable business as long as new investors contribute new funds, and as long as most of the investors do not demand full repayment and still believe in the non-existent assets they are purported to own." It looks like the ponzi scheme we call fractional reserve banking... or no asset backed lending is coming to an accountability moment.
 

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.....I suppose most businesses can survive without profit... and shut down for even a month or two.
Business can survive at breakeven, if that's what you mean. The unanswered question is how many businesses will be able to survive the losses this shut down is creating. Many businesses make all their money on the last 5 or 10% of their sales, with the remainder simply paying fixed overhead. Much of the overhead continues in this environment, with no revenue. That's going to put some number of them out of business. Even those that laid off their staff, may have trouble getting them all back. One of the unintended consequences of social safety net programs, which we saw in the last economic crisis, is it can be more attractive to stay home for that check than go back to work, even for a slightly higher one. Especially true if one is the second income in the household and childcare eats most of their pay anyway. If you can cut out child care, get an unemployment check, you might be ahead of the game not going back to work. Not to say we shouldn't have unemployment, only pointing out that some businesses are going to suffer much more than your comment would suggest.

....I know little about finance.......
I'm going to let your self assessment stand, rather than get into the misunderstandings in the rest of the post. :)
 

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Business can survive at breakeven, if that's what you mean. The unanswered question is how many businesses will be able to survive the losses this shut down is creating. Many businesses make all their money on the last 5 or 10% of their sales, with the remainder simply paying fixed overhead. Much of the overhead continues in this environment, with no revenue. That's going to put some number of them out of business. Even those that laid off their staff, may have trouble getting them all back. One of the unintended consequences of social safety net programs, which we saw in the last economic crisis, is it can be more attractive to stay home for that check than go back to work, even for a slightly higher one. Especially true if one is the second income in the household and childcare eats most of their pay anyway. If you can cut out child care, get an unemployment check, you might be ahead of the game not going back to work. Not to say we shouldn't have unemployment, only pointing out that some businesses are going to suffer much more than your comment would suggest.



I'm going to let your self assessment stand, rather than get into the misunderstandings in the rest of the post. :)
If a business is dormant they are not buying raw materials... nor sub assemblies... they are using less utilities and of course their labor and shipping costs drop to essentially zero... so they don't have to make the same quantity of sales to "keep" the physical plant "there". If there were mortgage and rent moratorium those expenses would not have to be met unit the business resumes operations.
 

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If a business is dormant they are not buying raw materials... nor sub assemblies... they are using less utilities and of course their labor and shipping costs drop to essentially zero... so they don't have to make the same quantity of sales to "keep" the physical plant "there". If there were mortgage and rent moratorium those expenses would not have to be met unit the business resumes operations.
Come on SO, you really don't understand this well. Very few businesses in our service economy even have raw materials. 98% of all businesses are small business and they employ 50% of all workers. Any of these in a shut down community are heavily threatened at the moment. I personally know owners of coffee shops, car washes, restaurants, professional services, contractors and house cleaners who's client don't want them in their houses. If they have liquid resources to get through and keep dozens of employees paid with little to do, that's great. The vast majority do not and have sent home many employees or cut their pay or cut their hours.

Let's say they do spend their personal resources to keep their business open, they then have catch up all those skipped rent and mortgage payment, along with making the current ones. Then, how about the landlords, who won't collect rent, but still have maintenance staff, etc, to pay.

The shut down is clearly a mess and many will pay a dear price. It may be deemed absolutely necessary in the aftermath. However, if it's not, our elected officials will all be tossed out on their ear. A massive number of jobs will be lost and not paying any income taxes. Many businesses will post losses for the year and not have any taxes due. Wall Street in your State is taking a bath and will pay fewer taxes, as bonuses decline or eliminate. Even those with some resources will sell stocks at a loss, which lowers their taxes due. Given your State started with a multi-billion dollar budget deficit, I can't imagine what it will look like in the aftermath.
 

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One of the unintended consequences of social safety net programs, which we saw in the last economic crisis, is it can be more attractive to stay home for that check than go back to work, even for a slightly higher one. Especially true if one is the second income in the household and childcare eats most of their pay anyway. If you can cut out child care, get an unemployment check, you might be ahead of the game not going back to work.
In the face of such high US employment since the last financial crisis, coupled with the fact that businesses have been having a difficult time getting employees, I bet you can't provide any reference to your thesis that post last economic crisis people found it attractive to stay at home rather than go back to work. It simply didn't happen that way, although I see how that would support a particular political/social/cultural narrative.

Your statement completely falls apart when one considers that the maximum time one can receive unemployment benefits ranges from 14-26 weeks, depending which state one was employed in.

So one may choose to stay out of the workforce instead of returning after a crisis, but they aren't doing so for any free money.

Mark
 

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Not so for unemployment time frame currently. That has been extended under the current crisis.

From a small business owner in Georgia, USA.
 

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Not so for unemployment time frame currently. That has been extended under the current crisis.

From a small business owner in Georgia, USA.
Yes, I realize that, and it will help. I wasn't responding to this crisis, and how people ultimately react when it is over is unknown at this time, and shouldn't be speculated.

I wish you luck with your business.

Mark
 

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The more immediate obstacle for employers is the Families First Coronavirus Response Act (Act) that goes into effect 4/2/2020. In a nutshell this gives each employee 80 hours paid at their normal rates for Covid19 related issues. Then they can file for emergency FMLA and get 2/3 pay for 12 weeks all paid by the employers. The problem is the employer either has to fire the employee before 4/2 or possible pay the above payrolls. I know a lot of business will not have the cash flow to operate and pay these expenses.

The moneys paid above are going to be reimbursed via tax credits but when???. Again cash flow is the issue. The above bill has more detail to it of course but that is the basics of it.

Worried times for sure

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Yes, I realize that, and it will help. I wasn't responding to this crisis, and how people ultimately react when it is over is unknown at this time, and shouldn't be speculated.

I wish you luck with your business.

Mark
Thank you Mark. Good luck to all. Like many on here we have weathered storms in the past and will again in the future. I believe most sailors are smart and resourceful people. We as a group will fair well and come out the other side more experienced and therefore stronger.

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Not so for unemployment time frame currently. That has been extended under the current crisis.

From a small business owner in Georgia, USA.
Most charter boat employees do not receive a W-2 form and I don't believe one can get unemployment from a 1099. Therefore, it is a moot point on this thread.
 

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Most charter boat employees do not receive a W-2 form and I don't believe one can get unemployment from a 1099. Therefore, it is a moot point on this thread.
I can confirm this. Also, many of those that get a W2, are seasonal workers with no benefits, and therefore would not qualify for unemployment insurance.
 

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Most charter boat employees do not receive a W-2 form and I don't believe one can get unemployment from a 1099. Therefore, it is a moot point on this thread.
But lots of businesses that support/enable the charter companies to do what they do employee W2 employees. So IMO it is not a moot point. But this is what opinions and discussions are all about. I value your opinion and most of the others. Thanks for that.

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I just learned that one sailing school / charter / SailTime outfit that I used to work for launched a GoFundMe page to "help" them through the Covid-19 situation. It seems that they've been pledged over $25K against a $20K goal in 6 days by former students and current employee/contractors.:|
 

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I just learned that one sailing school / charter / SailTime outfit that I used to work for launched a GoFundMe page to "help" them through the Covid-19 situation. It seems that they've been pledged over $25K against a $20K goal in 6 days by former students and current employee/contractors.:|
Sounds like a lot of customer goodwill coming home to roost. Goodonthem probably also due to former instructors (say you and me)...

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

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But lots of businesses that support/enable the charter companies to do what they do employee W2 employees. So IMO it is not a moot point. But this is what opinions and discussions are all about. I value your opinion and most of the others. Thanks for that.

Foster
I was actually thinking of charter boat crews, not bareboat operations. In that case, given they work in the US, you are right. Sorry.
 
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