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Closet Powerboater
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Marine Equipment Index - Seawell Marine

Check out this link. It's marine stuff shipped directly from China. Some of it looks like copy-cat stuff, other items look like the genuine article, perhaps just without the badge/label put on yet before being shipped.

When I lived in Indonesia there was a lot of this going on. I bought some Armani bluejeans that were actually the real deal, and I saw plenty that weren't. The brand name factories would always make a few extra and sell them on the side.

Some of the stuff looks difficult to make a copycat of. Inflatable boats? Immersion suits with harnesses? Liferafts? Some of this stuff looks legit, and some of their prices look really good.

Who wants to be brave enough to make the first order and report back???

MedSailor
 

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Buy some non-critical pieces and see how they stack up. There IS stuff from China that is decent quality, it's not all crap.
 
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Closet Powerboater
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The 8 person liferafts for under 2K are tempting, and they claim SOLAS, CE and several ISO certifications. Tempting, and they may even be the real deal, but on the other hand I'd feel like quite the fool if I drowned because I cheaped out on a Chinese liferaft.

Maybe I'll order a fender first.

MedSailor
 

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GREETINGS EARTHLINGS you can buy spanners they all look the same but if your job or life might depend on them I bet you would rather have a craftsman in your hand at the time. Remember when John Deer moved to Mexico and two years latter moves it all back again Quality is KING when you are depending on it. AS ALWAYS GO SAFE
 

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For non-critical stuff I might be tempted. For a life-raft, not a chance. For life critical stuff I want a big company, a distributor network, and a long history of selling high quality gear regardless of cost. I am willing to cheap out on comfort issues, or performance issues, but not life issues.
 

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apparently, the sizing on the website is a little odd, it's in centimeters and not overly clear which dimension points to which.

also when you goto checkout you get

"A minimum order amount of US$:200.00 is required in total-order to checkout.
Please Check Your Order Amount."

and my estimated shipping cost is

08619
United States
Available Shipping Methods Rates Total Cost
Shipping Via DHL US$:57.00 US$:122.00

so doesn't look like such a good deal if you need small stuff or one of something...
 

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Nobody ever outsourced for better quality.

My wife sells Burberry coats here in Toronto. Only the very high end Burberry's are made in England, the rest being from Indonesia, et al and there is a noticeable difference in the fine details, like stitching.

Maybe not critical in an immersion suit.

She does sell Canada Goose though which is 100% Canadian made. Ironically her largest client base for those coats are young Chinese, college aged females. The last week of August is huge for her sales....they arrive here with their parents who buy the kid a condo for university and then a warm Canada Goose coat for our winter.
 

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Remember you're a womble
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I've yet to be impressed by much with a Made in China label. Mustang gear is the same, you can put two identical model (and priced) float coats together and the one made in Vancouver is noticeably better quality, more consistent stitching, better finished (e.g. threads tied off properly). Frankly I think they have a cheek to sell them as the same coat for the same price. I treat MiC stuff as basically disposable, only ever used for non-critical applications and fully expect it to break far sooner than an equivalent part made in almost any other country. Was an interesting documentary on counterfeitting on the TV a couple of days ago, covered everything from fake Canada Goose jackets where the insulation contained lovely things such as actual bird parts (beaks etc) up to aeroplane components being used on major commercial carriers (as well as Air Force One) and fake medications that contained known poisons.
 

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Too good to be true, rarely ever is. Too good. Or true, for that matter.

That said, their site interface is horrendous. They apparently used ZenCart to throw the thing up. As for their prices. I browsed around a bit, and imho, it's extremely gimmicky and a scam. I'd bet dollars to donuts this guy is buying wholesale from alibaba, marking it up, and reselling stuff as "a steal."

As for the "made in china" bit? Count me among the skeptics. That is, for most marine related items. I do buy the really cheap "crap" from the local dollar store... you know, like water soluble glue sticks for my 3D printing projects, etcetera.

One of my dock mates picked up a 2.5HP motor from alibaba. He was effusive wrt how great it was. And even suggested we go into business, buying/selling outboards. He sold the motor a couple weeks later. It was apparently extremely noisy. Though, don't know if he's simply unused to how much noise an outboard makes, or what.

Regardless, if I'm gonna shoot for "too good to be true" made in china wholesale prices. I'd go to the source. In this case, working directly with the manufacturers on alibaba.

Mini disclosure: I have yet to sign up with alibaba. Just not crazy about providing my personal info to some place in a country that is known for regularly hacking US corps. But that's just me. ymmv.
 

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I really wish people would stop buying crap from China.
Like Paul said, It's basically disposable [email protected]
Buying stuff made in your own country does three things.
It keeps your neighbour employed, it keeps your money at home, and it improves your country's economy.
Sure stuff in the US and Canada may cost a bit more but in the long run it is worth it.
Buying locally your money is spent 3 times over locally.
The basis of our county's economic problems is the fact that we buy stuff abroad and the money is gone, never to be seen again.
 

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GREETINGS EARTHLINGS you can buy spanners they all look the same but if your job or life might depend on them I bet you would rather have a craftsman in your hand at the time. Remember when John Deer moved to Mexico and two years latter moves it all back again Quality is KING when you are depending on it. AS ALWAYS GO SAFE
While I appreciate the point you are making; I don't think you could have possibly picked a worse example than craftsman.

The tool industry is all very convoluted; but as I understand it Home Depot first approached the MFR of craftsman to also make its home brand of tools. (Which I *think* was JH Williams Co)

At the time they said Sears had been very good to them, their bread and butter for 100+ years and they declined to make tools for HD because they didn't want to jeopardize their relationship w/Sears. Sometime after that Sears began repaid their loyalty by outsourcing and eventually went almost 100% to China. And now Craftsman has been so watered down it's for sale in Kmart and True Value as a low-end economy brand.

After Sears screwed em: Lowes decided to follow HD with a house brand and they got lucky with timing and snatched up JHW as the MFR and they began making tools for Lowes under the Kobalt brand; A real coup for Lowes because their Kobalt brand **WAS** pretty great.

Only to have Lowes do the exact same thing and outsource to China 10 years or so later.

Now bear in mind I got this all third hand from some HD ppl I know in Atlanta; but the events certainly ring true and one thing that I think is not in dispute is that Craftsman and Kobalt's quality have plummeted into the dumper the last few years. Really leaving the options for good tools as: Snap-on and Matco. which are the 'premium' brands of US manufacturers (for the moment)
 

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Some of it looks like copy-cat stuff, other items look like the genuine article, perhaps just without the badge/label put on yet before being shipped.

Some of the stuff looks difficult to make a copycat of. Inflatable boats? Immersion suits with harnesses? Liferafts? Some of this stuff looks legit, and some of their prices look really good.
It is probably easier to copy top brands than one thinks. If a factory decides to make, for example, inflatable dingies and has the means to do it no matter how badly, what extra work does it take to make it look like a top brand model?

Chinese Land wind X7 - Range Rover Evoque Clone

The above link will show a Range Rover cloned in China. That's a whole lot more difficult than copying a dingy or outboard motor or life raft for that matter. The BBC TV programme Top Gear tested one of the clones and declared it "a piece of rubbish". Mind you, there are people who declare that about the genuine British-built Range Rover :p

We see a lot of Chinese made products in New Zealand and they are all sub-standard - no exceptions. I would not have any one of them on my boat, non-critical or not. I just like things that work like you expect them to. I once got sucked into buying 100 metres of Chinese-made nylon braided rope and when I uncoiled it it was joined in two places. Pieces are now used on my pick-up truck to tie things down.
 
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Now bear in mind I got this all third hand from some HD ppl I know in Atlanta; but the events certainly ring true and one thing that I think is not in dispute is that Craftsman and Kobalt's quality have plummeted into the dumper the last few years. Really leaving the options for good tools as: Snap-on and Matco. which are the 'premium' brands of US manufacturers (for the moment)
Notwithstanding what I said in my earlier post about not having Chinese on the boat, I do have Chinese made products in my workshop at home. Not hand tools mind you, my hand tools are all good quality stuff, mostly German.

But I do have a small metal lathe and a hobby milling machine that are made in China and they are quite nice tools. For home use they are accurate and quite powerful, enabling the machining of many of the parts for assorted home, boat and even some money generating projects. I guess with the low volume of production in a home workshop they will probably last quite well as well.
 

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guys its a lost cause to think that people will stop buying stuff from china...the bottom line is its consumer based and wanted.

the world WANTS cheap disposable
the world DOESNT want stuff that lasts and is fixeable
the world DOESNT want expensive labor
the world DOESNT want the BEST and for sure not ALWAYS and EVERYWHERE

and for those thinking that 1st world countries consume only things made at home or mostly... think hard and long about that, as many companies even in the good ole us are china owned...

unfortunately like those who want good quality stuff, stuff that lasts, that can be fixed and used for all your life:

WE are the disposed of and dissapearing consumers.

peace
 

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It is probably easier to copy top brands than one thinks. If a factory decides to make, for example, inflatable dingies and has the means to do it no matter how badly, what extra work does it take to make it look like a top brand model?

Chinese Land wind X7 - Range Rover Evoque Clone

The above link will show a Range Rover cloned in China. That's a whole lot more difficult than copying a dingy or outboard motor or life raft for that matter. The BBC TV programme Top Gear tested one of the clones and declared it "a piece of rubbish". Mind you, there are people who declare that about the genuine British-built Range Rover :p

We see a lot of Chinese made products in New Zealand and they are all sub-standard - no exceptions. I would not have any one of them on my boat, non-critical or not. I just like things that work like you expect them to. I once got sucked into buying 100 metres of Chinese-made nylon braided rope and when I uncoiled it it was joined in two places. Pieces are now used on my pick-up truck to tie things down.
Im a top gear fan and being raised in a brittish academy appreciate and uderstand the humour

having said that they recently did a show where they tested "ORIGINAL" new chinese cars...

luxury ones and even the most diehard brit of the 3 said in a few years and tweaks here and there there was nothing that would prevent him from buying one.

there is a big distinction between a direct copy and an original design...

copycatting was made famous by non other than the japanese who later became masters themselves...

the chinese are smart...they know what the world wants...CRAP for the most part.

even here in the jungle...you can see handcrafts, and textiles and clothes that are preffered by us(why? cause its even cheaper) despite the fact that we are known for textiles and cheap good labor

and take this, taiwanese, chinese, indonesian etc all are flocking to central america because labor and laws are even cheaper and less stringent here than they are back "home"

cheap and $$$ wins all the time

THE BOTTOM LINE

outsourcing at its best if you ask me
 

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While I appreciate the point you are making; I don't think you could have possibly picked a worse example than craftsman.

The tool industry is all very convoluted; but as I understand it Home Depot first approached the MFR of craftsman to also make its home brand of tools. (Which I *think* was JH Williams Co)

At the time they said Sears had been very good to them, their bread and butter for 100+ years and they declined to make tools for HD because they didn't want to jeopardize their relationship w/Sears. Sometime after that Sears began repaid their loyalty by outsourcing and eventually went almost 100% to China. And now Craftsman has been so watered down it's for sale in Kmart and True Value as a low-end economy brand.

After Sears screwed em: Lowes decided to follow HD with a house brand and they got lucky with timing and snatched up JHW as the MFR and they began making tools for Lowes under the Kobalt brand; A real coup for Lowes because their Kobalt brand **WAS** pretty great.

Only to have Lowes do the exact same thing and outsource to China 10 years or so later.

Now bear in mind I got this all third hand from some HD ppl I know in Atlanta; but the events certainly ring true and one thing that I think is not in dispute is that Craftsman and Kobalt's quality have plummeted into the dumper the last few years. Really leaving the options for good tools as: Snap-on and Matco. which are the 'premium' brands of US manufacturers (for the moment)
Snap-On is made in China now - sold in Costco.

Showing loyalty to a contemporary corporation is a suckers game - their only loyalty is to the short term bottom line.
 

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One thing that seems to be getting missed in all the China bashing is that it's nothing new. When I was a kid in the Fifties "Made in Japan" was a standard term for crap. Then, as Japanese stuff improved, it became "Made in Hong Kong". Then their stuff improved and it became "Made in Taiwan", then Korea and so on. Currently China is OUTsourcing their lowest end stuff - look at the label on a cheap T-shirt or junky plastic trinkets - Made in the Maldives or sub-Saharan Africa.

It's a natural bootstrapping process and Chinese stuff WILL improve. A friend of mine imports heavy industrial machinery from China and it gets the job done for a fraction of the price of ours.

This process is the only way to bring up the standard of living of the poor Third World countries. Bill Gates recently said there would be no poor countries by the Thirties. I think he may have been a bit optimistic on that but it WILL happen and China is the current demonstration of how it happens.

They may BUILD I-Phones but they don't invent them. For that matter - how many things have been CREATED by Japanese industry? Most of their products are improvements or developments of things invented elsewhere.
 
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