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Which is better for a 23 ft boat for holding jib and main halyards

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Im looking at a new boat and im wanting to replace the cleats for the jib and main halyard and want to know what would be the bets type to get.Its a 23 ft boat:)
 

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Im looking at a new boat and im wanting to replace the cleats for the jib and main halyard and want to know what would be the bets type to get.Its a 23 ft boat:)
Your picture confuses me. Have you purchased a sailing submarine?
 

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I've considered jam cleats and clam cleats and cam cleats. (Sailors aren't an imaginative lot when it comes to naming things) and even bought a clam cleat but in the end i left my horn cleat on and simply take 3 turns around and pull tight. And I mean, around, not the quintessential figure eight pattern. The sheet jams itself tight and never comes off but is free in half a second if need be. Try it before you spend money or drill holes. Now, this may not work on one of the big girls but for our minuscule maidens, its works fine.
 

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Depends on how the halyards are rigged. Getting proper luff tension is the goal, and doing that is easiest with a winch and clutch. You may not have that on a 23 foot boat. Typical for a smaller boat is just a traditional cleat at the mast. Not ideal but it can work.
 

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Depends on how the halyards are rigged. Getting proper luff tension is the goal, and doing that is easiest with a winch and clutch. You may not have that on a 23 foot boat. Typical for a smaller boat is just a traditional cleat at the mast. Not ideal but it can work.
Jim--

With all due respect, the inexpensive Self Jamming Cleat referred to above and in the earlier thread listed as a reference in a prior post in this thread:



is ideal for allowing one to "sweat up" the main and jib halyards on a 23 and get them as tight as necessary, particularly if coupled with an inexpensive 3-part Cunningham for controlling draft position.

FWIW...
 

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Go with a clutch. I like Lewmar's D1's for my 25 footer. Nice to the line and hold well. With a horn cleat, you can't get proper luff tension in a good breeze. A cunni will solve it, but so will a proper clutch.
 

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Jim--

With all due respect, the inexpensive Self Jamming Cleat referred to above and in the earlier thread listed as a reference in a prior post in this thread:



is ideal for allowing one to "sweat up" the main and jib halyards on a 23 and get them as tight as necessary, particularly if coupled with an inexpensive 3-part Cunningham for controlling draft position.

FWIW...
It is impossible to move a halyard to a jam cleat like this without effecting the tension on the line. You need something inline with the direction of pull. The only options are a cam or a clutch, and on a small boat there is no good reason for a clutch. It's just overkill. At least unless you want to use constrictor clutched on raw dyneema , but again overkill.


Ronstan Constrictor Clutch | Sailing World
 

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islander bahama 24
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It is impossible to move a halyard to a jam cleat like this without effecting the tension on the line. You need something inline with the direction of pull. The only options are a cam or a clutch, and on a small boat there is no good reason for a clutch. It's just overkill. At least unless you want to use constrictor clutched on raw dyneema , but again overkill.


Ronstan Constrictor Clutch | Sailing World
I don't have any problems mine are bronze and mounted vertically on the mast jam side up
 

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It is impossible to move a halyard to a jam cleat like this without effecting the tension on the line. You need something inline with the direction of pull. The only options are a cam or a clutch, and on a small boat there is no good reason for a clutch. It's just overkill. At least unless you want to use constrictor clutched on raw dyneema , but again overkill.


Ronstan Constrictor Clutch | Sailing World
Ah... Wrongo. Raise the halyard as far as possible by hand hauling downward and jamb same with an upward pull in the cleat, "jamming" it in place. Grab halyard above cleat with tail in one's off hand and pull outward, perpendicular to the mast sharply, adding "slack" taken up with a sharp downward than upward haul about the jamb cleat with one's off hand. At my age and weight (155#) I can pretty near draw the halyard tight on a sail weighing nearly as much as I do on a 60' mast. If the OP can't do the same on a 23 foot boat, he/she needs to find another avocation/sport.
 

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There is no way to load up a halyard on a winch then take it off the winch and onto a cleat without loosing tension on it. If it was then there would be no need for the winch in the first place, and if you can get enough halyard tension on a 60' mast by hand then you are trimming your sail wrong.
 

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there is no way to load up a halyard on a winch then take it off the winch and onto a cleat without loosing tension on it. If it was then there would be no need for the winch in the first place, and if you can get enough halyard tension on a 60' mast by hand then you are trimming your sail wrong.
+1
 

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islander bahama 24
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There is no way to load up a halyard on a winch then take it off the winch and onto a cleat without loosing tension on it. If it was then there would be no need for the winch in the first place, and if you can get enough halyard tension on a 60' mast by hand then you are trimming your sail wrong.
In case you missed it the op has a 23 ft boat
 

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There is no way to load up a halyard on a winch then take it off the winch and onto a cleat without loosing tension on it. If it was then there would be no need for the winch in the first place, and if you can get enough halyard tension on a 60' mast by hand then you are trimming your sail wrong.
Evidently you missed the fact that I made no reference to a winch or using a winch. Nor is a winch needed at all on a 23 foot boat. The fall of one's halyard is led directly to the jam cleat and one simply "sweats" it tight as described in my earlier comment (repeated following):

Raise the halyard as far as possible by hand hauling downward and jamb same with an upward pull in the cleat, "jamming" it in place. Grab halyard above cleat with tail in one's off hand and pull outward, perpendicular to the mast sharply, adding "slack" taken up with a sharp downward than upward haul about the jamb cleat with one's off hand.
Over the last 50+ years we have used this technique to properly tighten the halyards on Lido 14's, a Thunderbird 26, the Gaff and Peak Halyards on a Friendship sloop (not our own, however), a Soling (which we sailed all over heck's half-acre out of Road Town in the BVI) etc. etc. etc. On our current (and likely last) yacht, we use the technique to quickly get the Main most of the way up a nearly 60' mast rather than standing in the cockpit cranking away half the morning on a #40 halyard winch. With the method, the jammed halyard holds the sail in place while I amble back to the cockpit, take up the slack, wrap the winch and finally crank in (which releases/pulls the halyard out of the jam) the last 6-8 feet of hoist and finally set the tension on the luff using the winch (after which we close a stopper over the halyard to free the winch for other uses).

The advantage of the standing self jamming cleat over the others referenced in the OP's initial post/question is that one does not need one of ones hands to cleat the line (as with a clutch or conventional cleat) thereby loosing tension in the line as one loosens grip of one hand, nor to have to pull the line through a cam, which will be awkwardly close to the face of the mast making forcing the cam jaws open problematic. And, with neither the clutch, easily, nor cam cleat at all, can on sweat a line tight. But heck, after nearly 60 years of sailing, what do I know, eh?

Here Homer Nods....
 

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Regardless of type of cleat, on the ocean that's known as 'bouse and tail' Cheaper than a winch,can work as well and ever so salty. Us ol'farts shouldn't downplay experience. It may be we do know.
 

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In my humble experience the problem with any running rigging is not getting it to stay in place, but rather to guarantee you can release it instantly whenever necessary. Usually that is when it is under serious strain, and jam, cam, clam, etc cleats while easy to secure, are not always so easy to release under load, and when it goes south, thats when it binds up on you.

Never anything primary on my boat that is not as simple as possible

Horns only...

I'm just sayin'
 
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