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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Configuring New System - Which Components?

I have my 35', (14k lb), sailboat derigged and on the hard for the winter, and I'm seriously contemplating doing a complete electronics refit on her. Initially I just wanted to get a sense of configuring a complete Raymarine system from scratch. I'm going to assume this means new autopilot, new instrumentation, and new multifunction display. So this is what I have I believe I need for each area;
  1. Autopilot control head, control unit, sensor unit, drive unit, and cabling.
  2. Instrument display head, anemometer, hull installed transducer, cabling.
  3. Multifunction display/plotter, digital radar, ais receiver, cabling.
Some online retailers have put together some electronics packages in the aforementioned categories and from that, I've come up with the following Raymarine specific list that I think are applicable;

Autopilot
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EV-1 Sensor Core
ACU-200 Actuator Control Unit
p70 Control Head
Type 1 Short Mechanical Linear Drive

Instruments
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i70 Multifunction Color Instrument
iTC Instrument TDX Converter
Wind Anemometer with 30 meters of cable
DST800 Analog Transducer (235 kHz)

MFD
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e7D with USA Coastal Charts
RD418D Digital Radar
RCU-3 Bluetooth Remote

AIS
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Raymarine AIS350 Dual Channel AIS Receiver

Cabling
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SeaTalk ng Power Cable
SeaTalk ng Backbone Cable
SeaTalk ng Spur Cable
SeaTalk ng 5-way Connector Block
SeaTalk ng T-piece Connectors
SeaTalk ng Backbone Terminator
SeaTalk ng Inline Terminator

Digital Radar Cable
RayNet (F) to RJ45 (M) cable
Crossover Coupler

Does that just about cover a complete refit? Is there a benefit in integrating VHF too? If I wanted to choose a different MFD like the c97, is it pretty much a drop in replacement for the e7d?

If you'd like to point me to any other online resources that do a good job at explaining all the necessary parts, please feel free to do so. The official Raymarine forum and FAQ, didn't seem to address this higher level subject, at least that I could find.

Thanks,

Jason
 

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Jason, Seatalk NG is NMEA 2000 with proprietary connectors. You can get NG to 2000 cables or NMEA 2000 connectors and use NMEA 2000 stuff and save a few hundred bucks. Also, there is no need to get all Ray equipment. The Ray AIS is about $400 more than most. I'd get a Simrad 12 VHF and integrate it.

The new OS for the E7 should read free charts. I'd verify that and avoid buying the chart chip.

Why not get the X5 wheelpilot? You should not need a below deck unit. Do you need radar where you sail?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Re: Configuring New System - Which Components?

Thanks for the response.

To be fair, my boat currently came with these classes of components, un-integrated, from different manufacturers, (and prior generations). Given her current state, I was considering using the opportunity to replace the existing components with new. (I figured I could sell the current used components after the refit). She currently has;

Alpha 3000 w/linear drive (circa 1991)
Raymarine ST60 wind, depth and speed
Furuno 1623 (mast mount)
Garmin 740
Horizon Explorer VHF
Icom IC-707
SG Smart tuner

I prefer the below deck autopilot, and was initially considering upgrading the Alpha 3000 unit through the manufacturer's upgrade program, and forgoing system integration. I also like the idea of connecting everything via a NMEA 2000 network instead of Seatalk and am not opposed to using other company's components in a network. Maybe a better way to ask this question of the folks here is;
If you were designing your electronics system from scratch, (integrated autopilot, radar, instruments and networked multi-function display), what would be the components on your list, and why?​
Jason
 

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X5 wheelpilot was replaced by the Evo wheelpilot.

I agree on skipping radar for now, try AIS for a year and see how it does for you. I live in a foggy part of the world and have only been stuck in the fog once while sailing.

SeatalkNG connectors are much smaller than NMEA2000 ones. It makes routing the cables in small spaces a lot easier. It is easy to cross-connect the systems. I don't see a big price difference on the cables, so I'd stick with SeatalkNG (a 5 meter cable in either system is roughly $50). Don't buy any cables or 5-way connectors until after you've bought your autopilot, my X5 came with more of both than advertised.

If you only want AIS receive it's better to just get a new VHF with AIS integrated. I'm using the Simrad RS35 which is a lot better now than when first introduced, but I'm still not sure that I can fully recommend it.

If your boat is a tiller boat and the plotter will be somewhere forward in the cockpit then you may not need it and the i70. I have an e7d plotter and ST70 (previous version of the i70) because my plotter is aft in the cockpit by the wheel. The ST70 is mounted forward, over my companionway, so that it can be seen from anywhere in the cockpit.

You might prefer the wireless Tick-Tack wind instruments to the wired ones. If going wired the least expensive option is the i40, which also includes an instrument display.
 

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If the ST 60 works, I'd keep it and connect it to the E7 through the NMEA 183 port. Standard Horizon 2150 VHF seems to be the best w/AIS receiver, but is NMEA 183. I'd look for a NMEA 2000 version and use the old radio for now.
 

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Lots of money to replace all in one go, do you need to replace everything now?

Do you need an all integrated system?
In my experience interfacing the MFD with the autopilot does not improve usability that much..
Same with wind/depth/speed to the MFD.
Wind data to the autopilot is useful if you use the AP while sailing.

The raymarine iTC-5 Raymarine iTC-5 Instrument Transducer Converter can be used to interface Your old sensors from Raymarine with SeaTalk ng.
I have an AIS B from em-trak (B100) http://em-trak.com/ that can output data on both NMEA 2000 and NMEA 0183 it works fine with the i70 from Raymarine.

If you chose AIS unit my advice is to get one that can output MMEA 2000.
If buying new electronics today I would only buy NMEA 2000 compatible equipment (seatalk ng = NMEA 2000).
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Re: Configuring New System - Which Components?

Truth is there's no need to replace anything. (My first plan was to simply connect the ST60s to the Garmin 740, via an NMEA2000 network). However, I'm a geek, and I'd like to add some new toys through this refit. So knuterikt's comment about the limited benefits in integrating the AP has me thinking that for this refit, I could start with just a new MFD and Instrumentation.

So if I were to get;

1 E62355 - e7D (no cartography since LHII provides GPX support)
1 E22172 - i70 Multifunction Display

and I added AIS with VHF via;

1 E70088 - Ray260 VHF Radio with AIS Receiver

Then my assumption is that if I added;

1 E66061 - B744V Thru-Hull Transducer
1 E22078 - Short Arm Masthead Wind Transducer

then both the e7d and the i70 could share both transducers via the SeaTalk ng network, right? The last thing I think I would like to add would be Sirius/XM weather via;

1 E70161 SR150 SiriusXM Weather Receiver Module

And I think in addition to building a small SeaTalk ng network, (and especially if I add digital radar, RD418D), then I'm going to need a small Seatalk hs network switch between the e7D and the SR150, (and possibly the RD418D). So I'll need a;

1 A80007 HS5 RayNet Network Switch

Whew..

Jason

P.S. This would result in the e7d at the helm, and the i70 above the cockpit entrance. However, that seems a little redundant, since the i70 seems to share a lot of functionality with the MFDs. So that someone else in the cockpit can see the relevant info, at a glance, would it make more sense to use 3 displays: (i50 Depth, i50 Speed and i60 Analog Wind), instead of the single i70?
 

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Whether you use 1 display or 3 is a matter of personal preference. I don't like my cockpit to look like a 747, so I use as few displays as possible unless I'm racing. The the IPad becomes an extra display. The advantage of having the AP connect to the pilot is you can have it steer to a waypoint instead of a heading. If there are currents and slippage, its a nice feature.
 

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You might consider the A65 over the companionway instead of the i70. It isn't much more money and gets you a bigger display that can show more things.

I have a e7d at my helm and an older ST70 over the companionway. I (and crew) can see the ST70 from anywhere in the cockpit. I can easily reference the e7d, but can't really read it from my normal sailing position of next to the helm. This setup works well for me.

Note that if you integrate the X5 you will also have a P70 to stash somewhere. This can also show many of the data values that the ST70/i70 offer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Re: Configuring New System - Which Components?

Thanks for all the suggestions.. I really appreciate it.

I was able to do some more research by reading through several of the product manuals as well as reference documents, (like the SeaTalk Reference paper), at the Raymarine website, so I think I have a better understanding of how to select the appropriate components. Now it's just a matter of deciding how much I want to dive into new electronics for this coming season.

One of the most exciting features in the new Raymarine MFDs, is the ability to access them via WiFi/BT, with IOS and Android devices. I'd be curious to what extent other vendors are doing similar things, if anyone would care to add that to the discussion. Hopefully this can lead to some company building a "boat server" architecture, (with all the speed, storage, and processing power for performing the various electronics tasks housed within a black box device somewhere inside the boat), being able to be accessed wirelessly via different client devices, like a touchscreen at the pedestal, nav station, etc.

Finally, as a computer network guy it's interesting to see the various Raymarine SeaTalk, (and NMEA2000), network architectures both old and new. It reminds me very much of computer networking circa the early 1980s. Especially the parallels between the trunk/spur cabling, and the original "thicknet" ethernet.

It's also interesting to see the migration of these network architectures towards an ethernet implementation with SeaTalk hs, and finally NMEA OneNet. Hopefully the same kind of plug and play that we experience in work and home ethernet networks can soon be translated to the boat environment. (NMEA 2000 seems like a big first step..)

Jason
 

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Re: Configuring New System - Which Components?

Thanks for all the suggestions.. I really appreciate it.

I was able to do some more research by reading through several of the product manuals as well as reference documents, (like the SeaTalk Reference paper), at the Raymarine website, so I think I have a better understanding of how to select the appropriate components. Now it's just a matter of deciding how much I want to dive into new electronics for this coming season.
I can recommend this blog if you like to read more on what is going in in the market Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub

One of the most exciting features in the new Raymarine MFDs, is the ability to access them via WiFi/BT, with IOS and Android devices. I'd be curious to what extent other vendors are doing similar things, if anyone would care to add that to the discussion. Hopefully this can lead to some company building a "boat server" architecture, (with all the speed, storage, and processing power for performing the various electronics tasks housed within a black box device somewhere inside the boat), being able to be accessed wirelessly via different client devices, like a touchscreen at the pedestal, nav station, etc.
I think you will find that all the major brands are doing the same.
Furuno Furuno USA
Navico (B&G, Simrad and Lowrance) Navico - Leader in Marine Electronics
Raymarine Raymarine Marine Electronics for Boats and Maritime Applications

Finally, as a computer network guy it's interesting to see the various Raymarine SeaTalk, (and NMEA2000), network architectures both old and new. It reminds me very much of computer networking circa the early 1980s. Especially the parallels between the trunk/spur cabling, and the original "thicknet" ethernet.

It's also interesting to see the migration of these network architectures towards an ethernet implementation with SeaTalk hs, and finally NMEA OneNet. Hopefully the same kind of plug and play that we experience in work and home ethernet networks can soon be translated to the boat environment. (NMEA 2000 seems like a big first step..)

Jason
NMEA 2000 aka N2K have is already established as a standard for marine electronics. The way I see it there are two limitations with N2K
  • Limited bandwidth, N2K can not be used for images (camera & radar), This is the reason most vendors already have proprietary protocols on top of Ethernet.
  • N2K defines a standard for exchanging data between products from different manufacturers, but calibration and configuration is not a part of the standard.
It will be interesting to see how open NMEA OneNet will be..
There are some Open CNP projects going on where they "tap in" to the data from radar sensors...
I'm thinking that the vendors still would like to have some "lock in"

As a side note, we have a heterogeneous system on our boat.
We have equipment from
  • Furuno (MFD (NN3D), Radar, GPS, Heading sensor)
  • Raymarine (Wind, speed, depth sensors, Converter to Seatalkng (N2K) (ITC-5), instrument display i70)
  • Em-trak (AIS transponder)
  • Coursemaster (Autopilot)
  • Actisense (NMEA 0183 to NMEA 2000 converter - both ways)
Ethernet is used between the radar and the MFD, but Furuno can also integrate with their PC software MaxSea. By using wireshark we found out that the MFD convert all N2K data to NMEA 0183 and broadcast it as UDP packets..

This is a mix of N2K (NMEA 2000, Seatalkng) and NMEA 0183, the reason is that the oldest components where bought when N2K was still in limited availability.
 

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Jason,

If you singlehand much I would suggest you consider adding the S100 remote control to your list. I struggled with the issue of S100 vs. S1000, settling on the S100 for two reasons a) size (smaller the better) and b) price. The choice has worked out well for me.

Garner
 
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