[gbm4th]

Robert, I will visit White Rocks Marina this weekend and look at the boat, not sure which day though. It's only a 20 minutes from where my boat is; but that is 2.5 hours from where I live. Anything specific you want me to look for; I will bring my digital camera and take pictures for you.

As long as the buyer knows your interested, he should be able to extend the 2nd chance offer for you.

PS Check out YachtWorld on the web. Some sellers will accept 20-30% of listed price and you might find something closer to home.

george

 

[fullkeel7]

I was going to bid on that boat myself but the draft is just a little to much for my intended cruising area. Well, too, it's a little more 'shout' of a boat than I really need.

It may be that those separations in the survey can wait until you get the boat home...you'll have to make that determination when you inspect the boat. I would have a surveyor look at it for some verification anyway.

The rudder crack would concern me. If there's a crack, there is access for water intrusion that may weaken the rudder stock or attached structural webbing. Some 'test' pilot holes would verify if the rudder is saturated. Here's where that surveyor would come in handy as well. A good survey would also give you a 'heads up' on items you may want to fix prior to departure and those items that could wait 'til later.

That boat sure has a sweet sheer...good luck on the decision, sounds like a deal...

 

[krozet]

Robert, I will visit White Rocks Marina this weekend and look at the boat, not sure which day though. It's only a 20 minutes from where my boat is; but that is 2.5 hours from where I live. Anything specific you want me to look for; I will bring my digital camera and take pictures for you.

As long as the buyer knows your interested, he should be able to extend the 2nd chance offer for you.

PS Check out YachtWorld on the web. Some sellers will accept 20-30% of listed price and you might find something closer to home.

george

That is incredibly generous of you, thank you for taking some time to take a look at the boat for me. As to what too look for, this is my first boat... If you wouldn't mind taking a look at the rudder, the survey says there is a lot of play in it but the seller says it has been fixed. Plus the crack, the seller says that it is cosmetic only and not an issue right now. The only other thing is just how much of an issue the separations are if you can get below deck. Pictures? A couple below deck and a couple of the whole boat would be very much appreciated.

I have been doing some digging on Yachtworld. Truth is that I never expected to be trying to decide on buying a boat this year, I planned on buying next year. This boat just seemed to all of a sudden be available at a great price. Local boats here seem to hold quite a bit of value and people are hard pressed to let them go below asking price. I don't blame them, with the short cruising season on the lakes and fresh water boats up here are usually in very good condition.

Thanks again;

Robert

 

[krozet]

I was going to bid on that boat myself but the draft is just a little to much for my intended cruising area. Well, too, it's a little more 'shout' of a boat than I really need.

It may be that those separations in the survey can wait until you get the boat home...you'll have to make that determination when you inspect the boat. I would have a surveyor look at it for some verification anyway.

The rudder crack would concern me. If there's a crack, there is access for water intrusion that may weaken the rudder stock or attached structural webbing. Some 'test' pilot holes would verify if the rudder is saturated. Here's where that surveyor would come in handy as well. A good survey would also give you a 'heads up' on items you may want to fix prior to departure and those items that could wait 'til later.

That boat sure has a sweet sheer...good luck on the decision, sounds like a deal...

Here is where I am getting iffy, I know the value of a survey when looking for potential problems. My issue is that I am looking at paying $1,000 for a survey on a $5,600 boat. If I was buying a $40,000 boat I would see the value. As it is now it just seems excessive. The point of the survey is to find things that are wrong and negotiate with the seller to find a happy medium. Don't get me wrong, I would fully intend to have someone go over the boat to help find the issues and get them fixed but that can wait till spring.

If I buy the boat I will have two options, one is to leave it where it is and pay storage fees till spring. The second option will be to sail it back to Canada and immediately have it hauled and stored for the winter.

I just called a friend, one of her co-workers husband is a marine surveyor. It will cost $450 to have it surveyed in Canada.

 

[killarney_sailor]

Erie Canal is not a big problem

I checked into this option, I cant make it... With the mast up the boat is 44' from deck to top, taller from the waterline. The New York State Canal website lists quite a few fixed bridges of 14' The depth is good and it would definitaly be a nice trip. Would de-masting the boat be an option if the engine is strong? It would be a pain in the butt to get it reset to sail across lake Ontario just to haul her out for the season. Would motor sailing across the lake be a bad idea if the weather is clear?

It is routine for sailboats to use the Erie Canal. Coming northbound you can keep your mast up until almost Albany, NY. There are marinas that will take your mast down for you for ~$150 and one boat club, Castleton where you can do yourself for about $50. You put your mast on wooden supports for the journey.

The canal itself is 30 locks and a variety of river and canal sections with one lake that is close to 30 miles long (and not to be taken lightly -- it can get quite choppy). You probably want to have three people on board for the canal - could do it with two who really know their stuff, but it will be new to you.

To get to Lake Ontario you take a side canal from the Erie to Oswego, NY where you can get your mast raised. I would very seriously suggest you not try to cross Lake Ontario with your mast on deck, in particular in the latish fall. It is a hassle to put it up and then take it down again when you get across the lake but it is much safer to have it up, plus you will likely get a good sail.

If you have any questions about the trip up let me know, I have done the Hudson/Erie several times.

 

[krozet]

It is routine for sailboats to use the Erie Canal. Coming northbound you can keep your mast up until almost Albany, NY. There are marinas that will take your mast down for you for ~$150 and one boat club, Castleton where you can do yourself for about $50. You put your mast on wooden supports for the journey.

The canal itself is 30 locks and a variety of river and canal sections with one lake that is close to 30 miles long (and not to be taken lightly -- it can get quite choppy). You probably want to have three people on board for the canal - could do it with two who really know their stuff, but it will be new to you.

To get to Lake Ontario you take a side canal from the Erie to Oswego, NY where you can get your mast raised. I would very seriously suggest you not try to cross Lake Ontario with your mast on deck, in particular in the latish fall. It is a hassle to put it up and then take it down again when you get across the lake but it is much safer to have it up, plus you will likely get a good sail.

If you have any questions about the trip up let me know, I have done the Hudson/Erie several times.

Well I guess that will eliminate the canal as an option, i'd be lucky if I can find one person that would be able to take the time off work with short notice... Two would be a stretch and neither would know their stuff. I worked for a couple summers at a lock on the Rideau Canal in my teen age years so I know my way around but that was almost entirely house boats and power boats.

 

[BreakingWind2]

Here is where I am getting iffy, I know the value of a survey when looking for potential problems. My issue is that I am looking at paying $1,000 for a survey on a $5,600 boat. If I was buying a $40,000 boat I would see the value. As it is now it just seems excessive. The point of the survey is to find things that are wrong and negotiate with the seller to find a happy medium. Don't get me wrong, I would fully intend to have someone go over the boat to help find the issues and get them fixed but that can wait till spring.

If understand what you are saying but you may find when you go to put insurance on the boat that they will require a recent survey.
My two cents

Dave

 

[krozet]

If understand what you are saying but you may find when you go to put insurance on the boat that they will require a recent survey.
My two cents

Dave

Hello Dave;

The seller sent me an Insurance Survey that was done 10 months ago. The conclusion of the survey was that :

"DOUBLE PINOCHLE" was seen to be in only fair cosmetic condition mostly due to the condition of the vessel's deck molding. The structural condition was in general good except for some separated fiberglass bonds in the vessel's interior. After repairs and corrections have been attended to, "DOUBLE PINOCHLE" should be a suitable insurance risk for offshore use provided normal maintenance is performed and normal safety precautions are taken.

I guess if I do buy the boat I will most likely have to leave it where it is and attend to repairs next spring before bringing her back to Ontario to refit her for offshore cruising.

Robert

 

[BreakingWind2]

Robert,
Funny that this should come up. I was just admiring the boat across the marina from me and when I asked him what kind of boat it was...a Contest 33. Looks like a good sturdy boat, lots of freeboard. I would think that your insurance company would honour a survey done just 10 months ago.

Where are you looking to dock it in Ontario? I'm down in Newcastle.

 

[krozet]

Looks like if I buy the boat I will have to leave it where it is for the winter, I have asked the seller for info on who to contact at the marina about storage fee's from now till April, anyone know what the average storage fee's are for a 33' boat in the Boston area?

Anyone give me the name of a good diesel engine person I could contact to check the engine and winterize it? What is the process involved in winterizing a sail boat? I will have to take 4 days off work to do it, drive down from Canada and winterize the boat.

I am jumping the gun a bit I suppose as no deal has been finalized yet but I am trying to figure out the added costs and see if it is worth it or just go with my original plan of waiting till spring to look for a boat. This might be a great opportunity as the price is right and the boat is what I am looking for but if it is going to cost me another $3,000 for storage, winterize, travel back and forth... Maybe it would be better to wait.

 

[krozet]

Robert,
Funny that this should come up. I was just admiring the boat across the marina from me and when I asked him what kind of boat it was...a Contest 33. Looks like a good sturdy boat, lots of freeboard. I would think that your insurance company would honour a survey done just 10 months ago.

Where are you looking to dock it in Ontario? I'm down in Newcastle.

I haven't even got that far yet. I live in Aurora so I could check Midland or anywhere along the Georgian Bay. I have friends in St. Thomas so maybe Port Stanley or along the Canadian side of Lake Erie. I have family in Brockville so I can check the Lake Ontario / St. Lawrence area. Heck I could look into anything from Port Credit to Hamilton if I want to keep it near Toronto. This is such a compressed time frame that I haven't even thought of were to keep the boat. I just got promoted at work so as soon as I find out where i am going next I can look for a marina. Gotta see if I can get moved to Belleville, Cobourg, Kingston, Whitby... That would make things easier. Whitby would be good as I would have great access to repair facilities, diesel mechanics, fiberglass workers...

 

[arf145]

The point of the survey is to find things that are wrong and negotiate with the seller to find a happy medium.

That's one of the points...the other is to inform yourself of the true condition of the boat and just what you are getting into. You want your own surveyor for this! The cost of the boat is less important than just how much it can cost you. You'll want the survey anyway--pre-sale is when to do it.

 

[gbm4th]

Robert, I called the marina and left a message today to let them know I was coming down Sunday morning to look at the boat.

A nice website with info and maps: Maryland Marinas - MD Marinas, United States

A number for a diesel mechanic in Pasedena I got from a broker:
410-255-9488

A good surveyor would be Jack Horner at:
Maryland, Naval Architects, Marine Surveyors and Engineers, servicing recreational boats, yachts and small commercial vessels, Marine Survey and Design Co.

but you should be able to use the last survey that was done. If the boat has been on the hard for several years, it should already be winterized.

Good luck,
george

White Rocks Marina
Contact Information
Phone (410) 255-3800
E - Mail Click to E-Mail
Reservation Make Reservation Request
Latitude 39° 9' 5"
Longitude -76° 29' 35"
Format DMS DD

Address
1402 Colony Rd, Pasadena, MD 21122-3271 United States

More marinas in Pasadena, MD

 

[krozet]

That's one of the points...the other is to inform yourself of the true condition of the boat and just what you are getting into. You want your own surveyor for this! The cost of the boat is less important than just how much it can cost you. You'll want the survey anyway--pre-sale is when to do it.

Hello;

Thank you for the advice, the only concern I have is that with the insurance survey stating that structurally the only issue is the separated fiberglass in the interior I have a fair amount of confidence that the boat is in good shape. There is no cored areas as the boat is solid fiberglass and the survey says that there are no weak spots on the boat. The mast, rigging and sails are new as stated by the seller and the survey states that they are all in good condition with the only issue being the spreaders do not bisect angle made with shrouds. The fuel tank is listed as new and well installed with new fuel lines. The plumbing and thru hulls are listed as good, with the tank well insulated and the head listed as well installed. For $5,600 having a solid and structurally sound boat is a deal.

I know that the electrical will need some work but there are new batteries. I can do the wiring myself as I have experience with this. The interior is listed as being in good shape but I can update the interior as I need to. The engine might be a loss but I have found new and re-built marine diesels (27hp - 33hp) for anywhere between $3,500 to $4,400 depending on how much horsepower I want. For a 12,000 lb boat a 24hp would do, you can't go faster than physics allows on a displacement hull.

$5,600 for the boat and possibly $4,400 for the engine and $10,000 for refit puts me at $20,000. I am not sure that I could find another 33' sailboat with a new 30hp engine, new mast and rigging, new sails, new head, new batteries, new wiring, new winches, new fuel tank... all for $20,000. The insurance survey puts my mind at ease on the hull and the boat being sea worthy and I have no doubt that there will be things to spend money on once I buy it. I am still a little concerned that I might get scammed but that's probably because I have never bought a boat before nor have I purchased something for such a price from someone on the other side of the world.

Thank you for the feedback, I do appreciate it.

Robert

 

[gbm4th]

I left a message with White Rocks Marina Saturday morning to let them know I would be down Sunday morning. I drove down Sunday morning and did not find anybody; but I did find the boat. I could not climb up on the boat but did take pics. The rudder seemed solid and without any play. The pictures file size is to large for Sailnet. Send me your e-mail and I will forward them. It does look like a nice boat.

george

 

[krozet]

I left a message with White Rocks Marina Saturday morning to let them know I would be down Sunday morning. I drove down Sunday morning and did not find anybody; but I did find the boat. I could not climb up on the boat but did take pics. The rudder seemed solid and without any play. The pictures file size is to large for Sailnet. Send me your e-mail and I will forward them. It does look like a nice boat.

george

Email sent.

So just a general question for everyone;

If I decide to buy this boat what is the next step... I got a hold of the seller and setup info for a deposit and final payment. They just send me the title and I register it in Canada, call the marina and let them know it's my boat and I will be paying the storage fee's from October till April next year?

 

[krozet]

gbm4th - Thanks so much for taking the time to stop by the marina. Hope you don't mind me posting a few of the pictures you sent me.

 

[Faster]

At $5600 you'll probably do OK here. Accept the fact that it WILL take more money to get her up to snuff. At that buy-in price you've got lots of room.

If it were me I'd plan to absorb the cost of trucking the boat - you'll get it home in a hurry (it's already out of the water, saving some costs perhaps) and have the rest of the winter to start on the jobs that are critical right away. You'll be a season closer to sailing, probably.

From the last pic, it appears there is definitely water in the rudder, you can see it leeching out well away from the gudgeon fitting. This will be something you'll want to address at some point.

btw the "spreader angle" issue is not a major one unless a spreader is so low as to be on the point of releasing the shroud. In any event if you truck the boat the rig will be off and you can easily fix it then.

At the border, you'll simply inform them of your purchase, and you'll be directed how and when to pay PST, GST and a 9.5% duty since this boat was built in Holland. Factor all that into your calculations as well. Also, since this is WELL below market value, be sure to have iron-clad documentation that that is indeed what you paid. They will check for average selling prices for that model/year and will likely question your numbers.

 

[krozet]

Hello Faster;

I have factored in the cost of the import tax... gotta love taxes
The issue I have with trucking it back to Canada is that for the cost I could almost buy a new diesel. I will have to pay about the same storage fees whether it is here or not. The plan was to take 4 days off in October once the paperwork is finalized to go down to the marina, update all needed info and have a diesel mechanic look at the engine. Since the engine has not been run in some time I am fully open to the need of installing a new engine at some point before the launch next April. If it needs a new engine I will take the time between my visits in October and November to find a suitable engine. I would take 3 days at the beginning of November to go down and remove the old engine, the new engine could be installed then or in March of next year.

I would be taking the time in October to winterize the boat as most of the other repairs have been done already. I could use the time to also remove part of the engine if the decision is to put a new engine in. I could also have someone who knows their way around fiberglass check the tab separating in the galley. This would also be my opportunity to check the basic wiring and fix any outstanding basic issues, anything that I need to get it back to Canada like lights.

I would prefer to put the new engine in while it is in Baltimore as everything I have found suggests that I will be saving a lot of money buying and installing it in the US as opposed to Canada, especially with the continuing march to parody of the dollar.

I am looking at spending about $320 on each trip to the boat for fuel, lodging and food for the two trips in October and November. My airfare would be free (Aeroplan points) but a taxi from the airport to the marina I am budgeting $80. $50 for diesel, $35 for an Erie Canal pass and $300 for food / provisioning for the 12 day trip. This would cost me about $1,100 and be a nice first sail with the new boat. I can't imagine the shipping cost would be below $3,500 to $4,000.

The planned route would see me leave Baltimore and head for the C&D canal, stopping in Delaware City the first night. Then sailing down the Delaware to Cape May for the second night. This would be a nice two day shakedown with lots of ports if I run into a problem. From that point I have 16 days to get the boat up the coast to the Hudson, up the Erie to Lake Ontario and across Lake Ontario to Pickering. I would have two people to pick up in Albany that will help me navigate the Erie and Lake Ontario.

Robert

 

[krozet]

Oh and I could do the work on the spreaders once the mast is de stepped in Albany before the Erie Canal. I would have a few days to do the work before the mast is stepped on the other side of the canal.