SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I did this project back in 2015, but I was reminded of it when going through my old photos. My Catalina 22 came with two external wire-to-rope halyards that tied off to cleats on the mast. I put up with that for one season!

I purchased the masthead sheaves from Catalina Direct. They fit perfectly and allowed me to run four halyards, instead of just two.

My mast is oval shape, so fitting the exit blocks was a bit of a challenge. I also wanted all four to exit on the same side, which raised additional issues.

I cut some small spacers out of G10 for the upper exit block so that it would protrude from the mast to allow space from the lines that run through the lower exit block. I used thickened epoxy to hold everything in place, then drilled and tapped for screws.

I used a tape measure as a fish to pull the halyards up, making sure not to twist them. Two exit out the back of the mast for the main halyard and the topping lift, and two exit out the front of the mast for the jib halyard and a spare.

I used a deck organizer to route them back to a clutch at the cockpit. (Only a triple shown here, a double was added later on the other side of the handrail so I have all four halyards and my reefing line in clutches.)

I love having the lines run back to the cockpit. It makes it so much easier to single hand. You barely have to leave the tiller to raise a sail, and if you want to drop one all you have to do is pop the clutch.

When I have guests it’s much easier to get them involved. If I had said “Scramble up the mast, pull the red line, then tie it off with a cleat hitch,” I would have received blank stares. But now I can say “Reach over your shoulder and pull the red line. Check it you, you’re hoisting a jib, you’re a sailor!”

Internal Halyards edited



















 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
Well done M. I can understand the advantage in running the lines through clutches but I'm not sure why the lines need to be in the mast. Our halyards are all external and have never been a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Well done M. I can understand the advantage in running the lines through clutches but I'm not sure why the lines need to be in the mast. Our halyards are all external and have never been a problem.
I guess they don't slap in the wind, and there's less to get tangled?

How do you run yours outside? On myy original outside setup the halyards went up one side, over the sheaves, and down the other. That only leaves room for two. I guess my spinnaker halyard goes through a block that just kinda dangles there. That's an option.
 

·
Old soul
Joined
·
4,543 Posts
Sounds like a great project Minn.

All my halyards (five, plus a topping life, plus two running backs) run external. I’ve never yet owned a boat with most lines leading aft, although I’ve sailed on many. There are some great advantages, but I prefer the simplicity of working at the mast.

I think this very much depends on the boat though. Mine was designed with good mast working space, and a cabin and deck that is safe and easy to move around on. A boat designed in the opposite direction is not one I appreciate being at the mast on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Bugger all. The pictures went away. Oh well, the link still goes to the photo album.

At the mast is kinda sucky on my little boat. It's a very small area.

It's made sailing so much nicer for me. I like to sail up to the dock. I get close, then head up into near irons briefly and pop the clutch on the main—it falls neatly into the stack back. Then I turn back and head toward the dock. When I'm close enough that my momentum will carry me in I pop the clutch on the jib. Then I coast up the dock with no motor and both sails already down.

I'm sure on bigger cruising boats it's not a big deal to go to the mast. Like if you're only raising the main once a day or something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
Our boat has 3 halyards but only the mainsail halyard is used every sail; it runs to a sheave at the masthead and down the port side of the mast to a turning block near the base, to a cheek block on the deck, and back to the clutch. The gennaker halyard does the same thing but on the starboard side. The headsail is on a roller furler, once it is raised the halyard is permanently cleated off. The topping lift is at a fixed length and so it needs no halyard.
I am not suggesting that internal halyards are a bad idea, I just don't think it's worth the trouble to install them.
 

·
Old soul
Joined
·
4,543 Posts
...I like to sail up to the dock. I get close, then head up into near irons briefly and pop the clutch on the main—it falls neatly into the stack back. Then I turn back and head toward the dock. ...
Yeah… if you see me sailing into the dock, you better get outta the way :eek.

With 15 tons of boat under me, I don’t sail into close quarters, especially not near other boats.

I always sailed my 22-footer in, and usually my 26-footer, but once I got to my 34-footer the days of sailing into the dock were largely over. Now with my 37-footer, I’d easily choose to anchor out rather than attempt to sail into a tight marina. And I know my fellow boaters would agree with my chicken choice :).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,758 Posts
..... I get close, then head up into near irons briefly and pop the clutch on the main—it falls neatly into the stack back. Then I turn back and head toward the dock. When I'm close enough that my momentum will carry me in I pop the clutch on the jib.....
That's interesting. I'd drop sails the other way around, because the main can essentially self tack if I needed it to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
That's interesting. I'd drop sails the other way around, because the main can essentially self tack if I needed it to.
I need to be mostly head-to-wind for the main to drop nicely, whereas the jib will drop at any point of sail (except in heavy wind).

If I know for sure that I'll be pointing into the wind once I'm tied off I will drop the jib first and sail in on the main
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I kind of understand why some people prefer things at the mast. Fewer blocks, less clutter on deck.

But what are the benefits of external halyards? I guess if you lose one it'd easier to re-run than if you lose it up the mast. That's really all I can think of.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
I answered this for myself at least M. It would require at lot of effort(dropping the mast for starters) to solve a non existent problem.
I can think of a few other non problems that I could tackle as well. There should be a worthwhile payoff unless one just enjoys spending time and money on their boat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Oh yeah, don't fix it if it ain't broke.


But most new boats come with internal halyards. There must be a reason they don't do external.
 

·
Old soul
Joined
·
4,543 Posts
I kind of understand why some people prefer things at the mast. Fewer blocks, less clutter on deck.

But what are the benefits of external halyards? I guess if you lose one it'd easier to re-run than if you lose it up the mast. That's really all I can think of.
Couple more… it’s easy to see if you have a developing problem since the whole line is visible and can be inspected. The other issue that sometimes happens with internal lines is that they can get jumbled with other internal stuff like wires or rivet heads or bolts if not properly contained. Internal halyards can also become sources of noise, again if they are not contained properly.

The major negative of all-external is that it doubles the challenge of silencing them all when at anchor/dock. It also means 100% of your line is exposed to the elements all the time.

I don’t think it’s a big deal either way. I think most new boats come with internals b/c it makes things look cleaner. It certainly wouldn’t be an issue for me, either way. My boats have always had externals b/c that’s they way they came to me. But I wouldn’t bat an eye if my next boat (IF there is a next boat) came with internals.
 

·
Registered
S2 7.9 Bear Lake, UT
Joined
·
2,464 Posts
I kind of understand why some people prefer things at the mast. Fewer blocks, less clutter on deck.

But what are the benefits of external halyards? I guess if you lose one it'd easier to re-run than if you lose it up the mast. That's really all I can think of.
I think at some point it just becomes easier to have things at the mast. Think of the forces on a 45 foot boat and having to have the lines run through that many blocks to get them aft, takes a lot of work. You also have more space at the mast to store all the lines.

Still having things run aft makes everything easier, especially single handing. Internal halyards are a classy touch. What's your next upgrade, bow thruster, electric winches.:wink
 

·
al brazzi
Joined
·
2,076 Posts
I'm set up with everything internal and aft. Selden makes really nice equipment. I like how you staggered the two double exit blocks, nice solution.
 

·
al brazzi
Joined
·
2,076 Posts
That's interesting. I'd drop sails the other way around, because the main can essentially self tack if I needed it to.
If I use one sail its the Jib, the roller just adds too much flexibility and we can roll it up to a sliver and bring all the way in at the last minute. Plus its more powerful alone than the main is IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,758 Posts
If I use one sail its the Jib, the roller just adds too much flexibility and we can roll it up to a sliver and bring all the way in at the last minute. Plus its more powerful alone than the main is IMO.
If the jib is on a furler, I can see the benefit, even though it still requires more complication if tacking is necessary to approach the slip. I got the sense the OP's was hanked on.

Whatever gets one to the slip is fine by me. Each rig behaves differently, I suppose. I'd expect to get enough of a main down into a stack pack on most tacks, unless it was really blowing stink.

Probably the last boat I sailed onto a dock was a 26ft and that was pushing a decade ago. Time flies. I've never sailed my current boat onto the dock, but I've sailed it into many anchorages (not very crowded ones). Of course, I always end up head to wind in that scenario and our main furls too. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Yeah, my jibs are hank on. The boat is small enough that I don't have to crank a winch to tack or jibe, so it's really not a big deal if I need to flop once or twice while coming in. My usual technique is to backwind the jib before dropping it, that way it all lands on deck instead of in the water.

My main does *not* fall into the stackpack unless it's pretty much completely de-powered. Should it? If there’s any pressure at all the slugs bind in the tracks. Maybe I need to lube the slugs better? Huh. I’d always assumed that’s the way they all were.



It’s interesting how different people use their boats. Different sizes, different purposes, different boats. I recently chartered a 49’ Jeanneau. One of the people on the trip was part of the crew that won this year’s Trans Superior. Pretty much the same size boat, but it couldn’t have been more different. They did a lot at the mast because they had a crew of 12 and were doing constant headsail changes. Makes sense for them.

I guess on any boat where raising the main is a major enterprise, going up to the mast to do it isn’t that big a deal. Still seems like a pain to me, but if that's what you like go for it. But on my boat where raising the main is a 10 second hand-over-hand affair, going up to the mast to do it is silly. Ditto the jib, since I don’t have a roller furler it’d be silly to have to leave the tiller and hop up the mast every time I wanted to raise or lower the jib.



Still having things run aft makes everything easier, especially single handing. Internal halyards are a classy touch. What's your next upgrade, bow thruster, electric winches.:wink
Definitely, I’m going to upgrade my 50 watts of solar to 450 watts to power the bow thruster and the ice maker :)
 

·
Registered
S2 7.9 Bear Lake, UT
Joined
·
2,464 Posts

I can't tell from the pictures what is going on here but this looks to me as though a deck mounted spring loaded blocks or under mast plate with blocks should be in this setup to transition from vertical to horizontal.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top