I think the copper in Coppercoat is little balls that are exposed to the surface when burnished with a scrubbing pad.

Some fireds laboriously applied it over a whole summer in the yard doing a perfect job. It then only worked in patches so they had a crack at the company who said the warantee only extends if a professional applies it. The company then gave them more prodicu... and the couple are OK about it.

But would they do it again? I doubt it.

Coppercoat has been around now for decades. if it was that good eveyone would be getting it on their new boat... but... nup, very few are. And that tells the story (like the electronic barnacle busters, if they worked everyone would have them)

 

No to both your questions, but be aware that the reviews on Copper Coat seem to be about 50/50.
I've asked several people who had the company do the application, and others who did it themselves, to contact me with their opinion, but not one ever has.
From what I've heard, it is not at all maintenance free, though I'm told that while the coating is working well, most growth can just be wiped off. However, there comes a time, some say every 2 years or 3, the boat needs to be hauled and a sander used to expose more of the copper infused epoxy.
In the end, it did not seem to be worth the initial expense for the end result. I just kept putting on the cheapest antifouling I could find, with the highest copper content and purchased a 12 vdc hookah rig (Canadian "Deck Snorkel") to scrub the bottom regularly, after the first 6 months.

 

The solution to keeping bottoms clean is divers... frequently scrubbing. Don't rely on bottom paint.

 

The key to keeping bottoms clean is a quality anti fouling paint being maintained by divers. No anti fouling coating (especially not Coppercoat) will keep a bottom clean in regions of moderate or high fouling without periodic service.

 

The problem with Coppercoat is there are too many mixed user reviews

 

There are both hard and soft "ablative" antifouls. But they are all designed to fall off. The paint manufacturers supplying in NZ usually recommend a minimum of 2 or 3 coats and this needs to be applied every 12 to 18 months. I met an Australian boatbuilder some years ago who told me that 4 coats was the practical minimum for successful antifouling. A yacht two berths away from mine decided a different approach. He applied seven coats. That was 9 years ago. He has just lifted the boat to do the job again. The paint was Altex No5, an NZ product.

 

I'm guessing 9 coats of a hard ablative paint would approach the cost of Coppercoat. And has similar service life.

 

Frankly, I just want to 'have my cake and eat it, too'. Would be nice if there was a bottom paint that (with periodic scrubbing) would last for 10 years without costing as much as Coppercoat. I was expecting at least one person would say they put $50 of pennies in a blender, mixed it in some epoxy and slathered it on. I know pennies don't actually have that much copper.

 

I was expecting at least one person would say they put $50 of pennies in a blender, mixed it in some epoxy and slathered it on. I know pennies don't actually have that much copper.

It wouldn't matter if the pennies were 100% pure copper. Coppercoat only works (if it can be said to work at all) because it incorporates a water-based epoxy, which theoretically allows minute amounts of copper to leach out. A traditional epoxy wouldn't do that.

 

I think you would find that by the time you purchased West epoxy and sufficient finely powered pure copper, you would be in for at least the cost of coppercoat. Many people have gone this route, and the general feedback has been that it is less effective than coppercoat. This is pretty damning, as coppercoat is barely effective.

FWIW, we have a perfectly applied coppercoat bottom that we have lived with for the past 5yrs. It was on the boat when we bought it. It is being painted over with a traditional bottom paint next week and I can't wait. Coppercoat has been the least effective antifouling we have ever used. It needs complete cleaning every 2 weeks, and I've now scrubbed the bottom in the past 5 years at least 10x more than the previous 20yrs with traditional bottom paint.

The only upside to coppercoat is that the bottom is hard and SMOOTH. Like gelcoat. When it is clean, the boat is fast - faster than with ablative paint, and only finely burnished hard paint could compete with it. Since it is hard, I can go at it at will with a metal scraper with no concern. But it does need this every two weeks, where I've never had a paint require that much maintenance - not even at the end of its life. Exact same waters, too.

Strangely, coppercoat seems more popular now than ever for some reason. Boats are putting it on like crazy around here. Must be because of a youtuber pimping it, because there aren't any good reports of its effectiveness in these waters that I've seen. The closest is a youtuber who is on their 4th attempt at it and reporting good stuff for the initial few months (after years of 3 attempts that failed miserably which they blamed on many various and unique reasons other than the product itself). When I ask people about their experiences with it, it mirrors ours, but they deem scraping and scrubbing the bottom every two weeks as a normal thing, where I don't. So they think it is working great, where I think it is a complete failure.

So I guess it is a matter of one's expectations.

Mark

 

Hey,

I love the IDEA of coppercoat but the reviews scare me too much to try it.

I think I have realistic expectations from bottom paint:
No hard growth like barnacles or mussels
Some slime build up when the water is warm
Occasional cleaning
Lasts for multiple seasons
No build up on hull

Over my 20 years of boat ownership I have tried a lot of paints. Sometime around 2015 I decided to stick with Pettit Ultima SR40 or SR60. I liked it because it lasted two seasons (two coats of paint on the bottom, a third coat on the leading edge of the keel, rudder, and waterline. There was no hard growth at all, ever. In year one I would clean the boat 3 times a year (July, Aug, Sept). In year two I would have to clean it more often, like every two weeks starting in August. After year two the boat would be hauled and pressure washed and then 6-10 hours of sanding w 50 grit would remove all of the old paint.

Unfortunately Ultima SR has been discontinued. The replacement I used, Pettit Odyssey Triton, didn't work as well as Ultima. I'll be trying a new Pettit paint in the spring

Barry

 

I think the mixed reviews have to do with mixed application. Success or failure for Coppercoat is all about correct application. After extensive research, we applied Coppercoat on our catamaran last year and it performed better than the previous ablative in warm Mexican waters. There’s no replacing diving, regardless of the bottom paint, unless you are a commercial vessel exceeding 8 knots average. Another vote in favor of Coppercoat is its environmentally friendly credentials. Would hate to contribute towards reef damage!

 

I think lots of antifoul work GREAT if you manually clean the bottom each month. In fact SeaHawk provides a fake warranty of no growth for a year IF you manually clean the bottom each month AND the paint was professionally applied.

I think the same can be said about ultrasonic doodads

 

Yes, the blame for performance failure is always application. In our case, this is not true. It was applied by a certified CC applicator, and was sanded down to a shiny copper glass smooth surface. In the water, it turned the green patina it is supposed to. I would venture that we have the most perfect copper coat application ever - it is definitely the best application I have seen, and I have looked at many. Most people give up on the sanding before they ever achieve complete glass smooth and bright shiny, and their applications are comparatively rougher than ours.

I agree that there is no replacing diving, but having to scrub and scrape it every 2 weeks is abysmal IMO. Particularly when boats berthed or anchored right next to us are going 6-8 weeks between cleaning. However, everyone I've talked to that is happy with their CC believes 2 week cleaning intervals are completely normal. Including in the Bahamas where the water is so clean that I've never ever had to clean a painted bottom in 6 months there. Our CC required every two weeks there like "normal".

Mark

 

Talk to these guys.

Copper powder in anti-fouling marine coatings – Copper Division of Chemical Store Inc

copper-powders.com

A lot of people do not follow directions when applying any copper based epoxy antifouling. They try to take short cuts with weather, temperature, and time intervals. Then, they don't properly burnish the surface with 320 grit sanding pads right before dunking the boat. If you want a cruisers first hand experience, look up SailLife on youtube. Mads has had nothing but success and has videos detailing how he applied it. He and his team followed the directions to the letter.

 

If you want a cruisers first hand experience, look up SailLife on youtube. Mads has had nothing but success and has videos detailing how he applied it. He and his team followed the directions to the letter.

The thing is that you can also pull up other youtube videos that have had failure after following directions to the letter. In fact, you can find videos of failures after the owner of copper coat himself applied it.

We are also cruisers with first hand experience. Ours was applied perfectly. By a certified CC applicator. Sanded to a shiny bright copper using 320 right before launching. It is the smoothest application I've ever seen. It has been reactivated using CC's instructions. I consider it a failure, but this appears to be a relative thing if one thinks that scrubbing every two weeks is normal. For comparison, I put antifouling paint over it on a couple of spots where I glassed over thruhulls, and those stay much cleaner than the CC. Divers consistently comment on how much worse our bottom is, and how much more often it needs cleaning compared to the other boats they work on in the same area. Including neighbor boats on the same dock in marinas.

My thinking is that copper coat is a success for those people who think that scrubbing their bottom every two weeks is normal. Also for people who keep their boat in colder and/or lower fouling waters.

Mark

 

So there is the problem

2 post in a roll with 180 degree different results

 

I wonder if thin sheets of copper foil bonded to the bottom would work. I'd try it on the dink, but the VC17 has been working fine for years.

 

I am working on a force field. If it can stop a photon torpedo it should be good aganist barnacles.

 

Slightly off topic but...
Do you think it is feasible to have some sort of in water bottom wash "station"? I imagine it would/could be two floating docks connected below water at say 10' deep with some sort of rotating cylindrical brushes attached to each dock. To scrub/brush the bottom you slowly motor "thru/between" the docks... and pay the attendant.

 

There is one in New Zealand that works like a car wash but underwater. One of the Youtube channels was invited to try it. They are big about not transporting bottom growth into or out of their territorial waters.

 

probably

but you probaly get almost as much going out and motor at fill throttle for a few minutes

 

41 years... tried many paints... all with almost the same bad results in LIS and Southern NE. Only way to stay ahead of the problem is scrub frequently. Perhaps if it is an almost daily routine the SOBs can't get their "anchors" to stick to the hull. If your boat is in clear warm waters you probably can dive regularly. YUCK.... Bottom drive thru cleaners are the answer. I suppose these cleaners could be towed from harbor to harbor in regions like LIS / Southern NE.

 

I cannot agree with all your reply. Cuprous oxide, the primary agent in my antifoul paint is insoluble in water and does not leach from the paint. Ablation is required to expose new active layers of this copper.
Biofilms on my hull are removed in one or two hours of sailing, they do not protect the paint.
Whether the paint is removed coincidentally with the biofilm or after the biofilm has gone is an interesting point but the paint is definitely removed.

Thankyou for your comments.

 

Cuprous oxide, the primary agent in my antifoul paint is insoluble in water and does not leach from the paint. Ablation is required to expose new active layers of this copper.

I'm afraid you have a poor understanding of how anti fouling paints work.

 

Well I disagree, cuprous oxide is, in the case of ablative antifouls, insoluble in water. This is because the extremely low solubility of cuprous oxide is stopped completely by it being encapsulated in the paint resin.

The term ablative in this situation relates to the progressive degradation of the paint resin which results in the release of the cuprous oxide. Cuprous oxide does not leach from the paint. The resin is the binder so once it is degraded the paint falls off.

If you thought I did not understand the term ablative why did you not explain it yourself.

Self polishing antifouls which use acrylate resins are the type which leach the active biocide. These are NOT ablative paints.

I was hoping that someone who claimed to know why ablative antifouls could not work in the long term would be able to explain that in meaningful ways. Apparently, that is not going to happen, they instead just want to dismiss my education and experience.

If anyone out there does have real knowledge of this subject the areas that I know little of, are firstly the how ablation changes with age of the resin and secondly whether thickness of the coat limits ablation at the base of the paint layer. I know that tests have been done on these subjects but have not been able to find detailed publications of the results.

I am interested in technical information on paint performance relating to this matter, not opinions about how little I know.

 

Well I disagree, cuprous oxide is, in the case of ablative antifouls, insoluble in water. This is because the extremely low solubility of cuprous oxide is stopped completely by it being encapsulated in the paint resin.

But that isn't how hard paints work. Cuprous oxide does have some solubility in water, and this solubility and the concentration of it in the paint determines its leaching rate (along with the specific paint resin formulation).

You don't have to take my word for it: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/333721612.pdf[/QUOTE]

If you thought I did not understand the term ablative why did you not explain it yourself.

I did think you understood it. I thought you were conflating or confusing its mechanism with non-ablative paints.
[/QUOTE]

Mark

 

I don't care how bottom paint antifouling works.

Because it is a roll of the dice if it will really.