[DougSabbag]

We've been researching the history of anti-fouling on boats toward resolving that issue as best as can be accomplished this year.

From marine history, (British War ships first discovered it), copper sheets / plates, (eventually it evolved into a mixture with 5% nickel included) work the best of all.

So, ideally, I would like to install the copper sheeting with the 5% nickel, and I will look into that when we get to Fort Lauderdale next fall. There was a company doing that down there, but they went out of business over a decade ago. I have found sources of copper sheeting with the 5% nickel, and might consider installing it myself.

However, this Coppercoat product appears to provide the closest base to that, and theoretically, the application process (using epoxy) has been refined / designed to accomplish the adhesion goal better than sheeting.

The CopperCoat site has a testimonials page with reviews from a number of sailing magazines too, which sounds quite positive.

A friend of mine asked about removing the CopperCoat if it doesn't work, to accomplish painting, but a number of years ago I applied a barrier coat on the Gulfstar we owned at the time, of West System, which is an epoxy, and then applied typical anti fouling paint over that without any problems..... so.... I would assume Coppercoat / epoxy could also be painted over. But, I sure would be surprised to find myself painting over copper.

I have read through numerous Sailnet.com postings about copper / epoxy results, and there seems to be a frequent mix up between the other companies, not Coppercoat, which have gone out of business, with the CopperCoat product.

Evelyn and I spoke with the owner of the CopperCoat company at a Newport boat show a couple of years ago. He was vehement (almost frothing at the mouth) about the battle he is waging with the paint anti-fouling companies, since he says they have been working quite hard to "slander" his product. He said he has initiated court cases against them for this organized slander. I could well imagine how much regular / paint antifouling companies might fear such a product.

Overall, it appears important to use the process and the materials from the company, and not try to make a home made mixture. And, to follow this up with "scuffings" to bring fresh copper to the surface over time.

So, I was wondering if any of you have actually used CopperCoat, properly applied per their instructions, and what your results were?

And, or, has anyone installed copper sheeting?

 

[Delezynski]

Doug,

You might want to look over our web site and Youtube channel. We first used a product called CopperPoxy. I can't get it now. It lasted us about 11 years from the San Francisco Bay area to and through the Sea of Cortez! We tried mixing our own copper in epoxy (NO GOOD!)!!. Last year we applied Coppercoat (see on Youtube). We have posted a one year report so far.

From OUR usage, IT WORKS! for hard growth, not soft stuff/slime.

Greg

 

[Fstbttms]

So, I was wondering if any of you have actually used CopperCoat, properly applied per their instructions, and what your results were?

CopperCoat on a Hallberg-Rassey 43 in Berkeley.

...has anyone installed copper sheeting?

Do you honestly believe that 300-year-old technology is going to provide you better performance than current anti fouling coatings?

 

[Skipper Jer]

I've been following the discussions of paint vs copper powder/epoxy for a few years now.
I wish someone would setup and do half their boat in paint and the other half in copper powder/epoxy. Maybe quarter the application so one can't blame starboard/port exposure for the results.

 

[Fstbttms]

I've been following the discussions of paint vs copper powder/epoxy for a few years now.
I wish someone would setup and do half their boat in paint and the other half in copper powder/epoxy. Maybe quarter the application so one can't blame starboard/port exposure for the results.

Well, if the stuff is the best thing since sliced bread, you'd think the manufacturers would do some kind of side-by-side comparisons. But they don't. And I have to wonder why.

 

[Skipper Jer]

Well, if the stuff is the best thing since sliced bread, you'd think the manufacturers would do some kind of side-by-side comparisons. But they don't. And I have to wonder why.

Point well taken Fastbottoms and could apply to the paint companies as well.

 

[MedSailor]

I raced on a Catalina 30 out of Shilshole for over 10 years, and he has a coppercoat bottom. At least that's what I assume it is. It's an epoxy with copper powder bottom that was applied by the yard 15 or 20 years ago and he hasn't painted it since.

I think it's pretty great myself, since he never has to paint his boat, but last time I talked with him he says he wished he would have just gone the regular route.

Why??? He says that the only way to keep it working is to sand and scrub it constantly. The exposed copper oxidizes quickly and must be sanded away exposing more. He still has to haul out every 2-3 years and scrub/sand the bottom like mad and yards that will allow you to do that are getting harder and harder to find. He also dives the boat and scrubs the bottom before each race, so that's probably 10 times/year.

Still, not having to paint the bottom for over a decade seems pretty great, but on the other hand, if you still have to haul, and work like a fiend (or pay someone to work on it) then what do you really save?

MedSailor

 

[capta]

Met an old guy hauled in Trinidad, late last year, with a copper sheathed wooden boat. Unwashed bottom looked like it had been pressure cleaned. He said it was 3 years since his last haul out.
Two big problems with copper sheathing;
1) how do you attach it to glass hull?; obviously it won't work on any metal hull, which brings up problem #2) galvanic action with metal boats (or other metal objects) in your marina. Big problem!
Copper sheeting does work as an antifouling, but it is quite impractical and expensive to do. Wood boat application requires a layer of tarred felt between boat and copper. Hello EPA?

 

[DougSabbag]

CopperCoat on a Hallberg-Rassey 43 in Berkeley.


Do you honestly believe that 300-year-old technology is going to provide you better performance than current anti fouling coatings?

Well.... basically, a sailboat is utilizing "technology" which is much older than that, and we move along quite nicely. So, just being older than me is not necessarily a deal breaker.

The basic "technology" of the copper clad British War ships of the 1700s, i.e., copper, is what we ARE still using today, just in different, and weaker, formulations.

 

[DougSabbag]

Doug,

You might want to look over our web site and Youtube channel. We first used a product called CopperPoxy. I can't get it now. It lasted us about 11 years from the San Francisco Bay area to and through the Sea of Cortez! We tried mixing our own copper in epoxy (NO GOOD!)!!. Last year we applied Coppercoat (see on Youtube). We have posted a one year report so far.

From OUR usage, IT WORKS! for hard growth, not soft stuff/slime.

Greg

Hello Greg!

I greatly appreciate your meticulous efforts at documenting your experiences! Bravo Sir!

I am wondering, given your CopperCoat evaluation "Op-Eval" #2 was after about 4 + months of being in the water, (besides the blister experience), how would you say the CopperCoat performed vs. a similar time frame of regular antifouling paint on your boat? Would you have expected to have more growth than you found using the CopperCoat?

Thank you!
Doug

 

[MarkSF]

I would be interested to know why an epoxy coating that contains a lot of copper would work so much better than a paint like Trinidad SR which is, er, a coating that contains a lot of copper! The simple fact is that copper is quite effective against organisms, but not THAT effective. You need a really nasty additive like tributyl tin to kill anything, all the time.

If Coppercoat etc is so much better, where's the data? I mean real, sound, comparitive testing.

 

[deltaten]

Man! I *luv* the idea of a copper sheathed bottom, just like "Old Ironsides"
Just thethought of driving alla those nails into the fiberglass spooks me a bit
Do haft a drill, pot and butyl each nail?

 

[Delezynski]

Doug,

I think the time was to short to make any real evaluation. We did have our PortaBoat dink in the water for about half as much time and it DID have a lot of crud on it.

One thing that we learned from our original CoppyPoxy was that you do still get the soft (slime) on the bottom and that needs to be removed every so often. IF you let that stay on the boat for a long time you can get hard groth on top of it. It comes off easy, but can be scary to see.

The other thing to do is keep an eye out for black, or very dark areas on the bottom. This could mean an electrical problem that is damaging the copper. Like a short.

We are now in the water in New Orleans and are heading toward Florida till hurricane season. I will be posting another report when we pull this time also.

As I said, when we just put copper powder in epoxy, it DID NOT work! The epoxy in the CopperPoxy and Coppercoat is water based! So, water does get into it and the bottom does not need to be sanded often.

Standard disclmer, I am NOT connected with the companies in any way other than as a user. AND, we are cruisers, not testers! So I do not plan on quartering my bottom any time soon.

May be some one else will.

Greg

Hello Greg!

I greatly appreciate your meticulous efforts at documenting your experiences! Bravo Sir!

I am wondering, given your CopperCoat evaluation "Op-Eval" #2 was after about 4 + months of being in the water, (besides the blister experience), how would you say the CopperCoat performed vs. a similar time frame of regular antifouling paint on your boat? Would you have expected to have more growth than you found using the CopperCoat?

Thank you!
Doug

 

[DougSabbag]

I would be interested to know why an epoxy coating that contains a lot of copper would work so much better than a paint like Trinidad SR which is, er, a coating that contains a lot of copper! The simple fact is that copper is quite effective against organisms, but not THAT effective. You need a really nasty additive like tributyl tin to kill anything, all the time.

If Coppercoat etc is so much better, where's the data? I mean real, sound, comparitive testing.

So, if copper in paint works, shouldn't copper in epoxy work too?

 

[DougSabbag]

Doug,

I think the time was to short to make any real evaluation. We did have our PortaBoat dink in the water for about half as much time and it DID have a lot of crud on it.

One thing that we learned from our original CoppyPoxy was that you do still get the soft (slime) on the bottom and that needs to be removed every so often. IF you let that stay on the boat for a long time you can get hard groth on top of it. It comes off easy, but can be scary to see.

The other thing to do is keep an eye out for black, or very dark areas on the bottom. This could mean an electrical problem that is damaging the copper. Like a short.

We are now in the water in New Orleans and are heading toward Florida till hurricane season. I will be posting another report when we pull this time also.

As I said, when we just put copper powder in epoxy, it DID NOT work! The epoxy in the CopperPoxy and Coppercoat is water based! So, water does get into it and the bottom does not need to be sanded often.

Standard disclmer, I am NOT connected with the companies in any way other than as a user. AND, we are cruisers, not testers! So I do not plan on quartering my bottom any time soon.

May be some one else will.

Greg

Thank you Greg!

 

[DougSabbag]

Man! I *luv* the idea of a copper sheathed bottom, just like "Old Ironsides"
Just thethought of driving alla those nails into the fiberglass spooks me a bit
Do haft a drill, pot and butyl each nail?

If I understand correctly, there are many methods of attaching copper sheeting to a fiber glass hull.

Innovations: Copper Hull Sheathing Foils Barnacles

 

[SailRedemption]

Doug,

We are now in the water in New Orleans and are heading toward Florida till hurricane season. I will be posting another report when we pull this time also.

Greg

Greg, where are you at in new Orleans? I'm in NOLA East, on the hard at our marina, Lake Catherine marina.

I'll be putting CopperCoat one boat in the next month or so... I figure it's worth a shot. I don't mind diving on my own boat to clean the slime off of it which you will get on any bottom paint. I figured that is just part of maintaining your boat, cleaning the bottom, I like to be drag free(stems from my racing side).

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

 

[Delezynski]

I think many people are misunderstanding. A lot of the normal bottom paint contains copper oxide (check the active ingredient list) as the inhibitor. Copper oxide is like copper rust (I KNOW, don't slam me for the simplistic view)

When you have the metallic copper in a base that allows the water to "rust" the copper and turn it to copper oxide, that does the same thing as it does in the paint. It's just that you can load a lot more copper up front than you can the oxide.

Any way, no scientific stuff, just saying it works for us. And as I am very fond of saying, we are each the captain of our own craft, we make our own decisions and are bound to live with them!

What I do not understand is why it seems like may people who have not tried it are so worried about it not working on MY boat!

Greg

 

[Delezynski]

Greg, where are you at in new Orleans? I'm in NOLA East, on the hard at our marina, Lake Catherine marina.

I'll be putting CopperCoat one boat in the next month or so... I figure it's worth a shot. I don't mind diving on my own boat to clean the slime off of it which you will get on any bottom paint. I figured that is just part of maintaining your boat, cleaning the bottom, I like to be drag free(stems from my racing side).

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Tapatalk

We are at Seabrook off France road. At least for a couple more days before we start heading east. Stop by and say hi if you are in the area.

Greg

 

[MedSailor]

Doug,

Antifouling is actually a multi-billion dollar business and even very small gains in growth reduction and/or increase in interval of reapplication translates to many millions of dollars in fuel and time saved for the big freight companies.

Did you know that there is a peer reviewed scientific journal devoted to nothing else other than marine biofouling? It's $500 per issue if you want to read a copy...

I'm a fan of innovation and often find myself re-inventing the wheel or acting like an iconoclast, but in this arena, there are plenty of people doing the research and testing for you.

Having said that, there still is room for you to do something different. Ivermectin, a prescription pharmaceutical anti-parasitic drug is showing incredible promise in reductions of hard growth when mixed with regular copper paint. And yes, you can buy the stuff on the internet.

You may find this post:Post

From this thread:Antifouling thread

worth reading.

Medsailor

PS Nice to have you back by the way. Glad we didn't scare you off forever before.