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.....My wife and I are relatively young with a 10 year old son, and are going into our 3rd week of being totally isolated in our home except to get out for daily exercise and weekly runs to the grocery store.
If you are protecting yourself, what exactly are you worried about? It's a serious question. If you're isolated and taking proper precautions, when outside, you not going to get sick. Listen to the professionals, not the media.

Everyone is pushing an agenda with the information they share here. Even you, Minnewaska. Yesterday, you referred to me as a racist a few pages back in this thread
I did not call you racist. I said....... "These state to state phobias are absolutely no different than racism. One makes broad discriminatory assumptions, based on a single attribute. In this case, a license plate. Shameful."

NY now has 60,000 confirmed cases. If you ignore that some have already recovered and just multiply it by the 10x assumption to get to how many are infected, that is 600,000 out of 19.5 million. That's 3% of the license plate holders.

Further, my friends who are in their ski house, have been there over two weeks. They are definitively not infected. You'd kick them out?????

So I don't know what is driving your agenda Minnewaska, but you seem to be coming down on the side of, everyone just wash their hands and everything will be fine. And in my view, that message is having dire consequences for many of us.
Sorry you're upset about it, but there are facts and there is fear. Facts were posed above by the Pulmonologist at ground zero in NYC right now. He makes very clear that a six foot perimeter from other people and washing your hands after you've contaminated them will prevent the disease. It's does not matter, whatsoever, who moved in down the street. The consequences are only for those who don't follow this protocol.

Why would you assume everyone coming to VT to socially distance in their second homes is going to get sick anyway? Seems to me they would be on the more responsible side of the general population, by the fact that they are distancing. Not to mention, they're paying the same property and sales taxes that built those hospitals.

p.s. It's a discussion, there are no agendas. What would an agenda do on a forum anyway?
 

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bell ringer
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Far as the US having liqour stores open, still!

The functioning alcoholics and those with money to do so have had lots of time to stock up. Now time to close them.

Trust me that last week had I known here in the Bahamas Iwould have gone and gotten extra.
 

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Captain Obvious
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I'm not endorsing a ban, I'm just communicating the same message that every single level of government and healthcare professional is endorsing: Stay Home! If your home is in NYC, stay home in NYC. Don't hop in the car, and travel to another community.

If as you say, hundreds of thousands of people are fleeing NYC, that is really scary for the healthcare facilities where those people are landing. The whole population of VT is only 600k, and we already have less hospital beds per capita than most states, and that's just counting our 600k residents.

Again, how hard is "stay home" to understand, and how can that even be a confrontational issue at this point in time??
They won't stay home. Thats not even a realistic expectation. Thats why in China they tested people and isolated them in gov facilities until they got better. Then contact traced and found anyone else infect and tested and quarantine them.

The US is just letting nature take its course. They are doing nothing. Thats hardly the fault of people. And as this pandemic builds and peaks, more people will be running around. Again, its the governments fault. They made the decision not to test, not to teace, not to isolate, not to by ventilators, not to plan at all.

But, you say, just stay home!!! No, it doesn't work that way. You can't just do nothing and then lock people inside. How about you stay home after this? Isolate yourself 100% economically, socially and technologically and never benefit from the larger society again? You wont do that. You are part of a country. You take the benefits. So is everyone else. They also take the benefits, be it road, hospitals what have you.
 

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If you are protecting yourself, what exactly are you worried about?
I would think that is obvious from what I have written, but to state it again, I'm worried that our healthcare system in this tiny rural state cannot care for our own residents, let alone thousands of non-residents. I'm worried for my family, friends and neighbors who work at the local hospital. I'm worried for my family, friends, neighbors and colleagues, who may not get access to treatment a few weeks from now, when our healthcare system is maxed out. This is a legit concern here and is being talked about daily by our state gov, who is pleading for people to please stop coming here.
 

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I did a quick search and it doesn't seem that anyone has posted this in the Covid-19 thread yet.

The Florida Keys are closed to non-residents. There are checkpoints set up on on the roads into the keys. Only residents, property owners, workers and delivery vehicles are allowed in.

So far we have relatively few cases but that number jumped from four a couple of days ago to 20 yesterday (I haven't heard an update today). Anyone arriving into Key West by air is being instructed to self quarantine for two weeks. All hotels and restaurants have been closed for two weeks.

https://keysnews.com/article/story/visitors-turned-back-from-keys/
 

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I was talking to some friends that in NC. They said the roads leading into town were barricaded.
 

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Sorry I did not check out the source, but most of the information, at least from my experience, was valid. Unfortunately, all of the medical professors I worked with at The John's Hopkins Hospital and med school are dead.

Now, I have very little confidence in Snopes, especially when it comes to medical issues. They have been dead wrong on any number of medical issues.

Stay safe,

Gary :cool:
 

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Captain Obvious
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I was driving today and saw the Burger King drive thru backed up with cars. I don't think I'd be that brave unless I was really really hungry
 

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I was driving today and saw the Burger King drive thru backed up with cars. I don't think I'd be that brave unless I was really really hungry
Or were traveling from state to state.
 

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Captain Obvious
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Or were traveling from state to state.
LOL! I'm italian and we can pack enough home made sandwhiches, boiled eggs and thermoses of coffe to drive coast to coast and only get outta the car to "use-a the bachhousa"
 

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If you are protecting yourself, what exactly are you worried about? It's a serious question. If you're isolated and taking proper precautions, when outside, you not going to get sick.
Seems to me they would be on the more responsible side of the general population, by the fact that they are distancing. Not to mention, they're paying the same property and sales taxes that built those hospitals.
Minnewaska, consider this; despite having stocked up on things we need, we all will still need to visit a grocery store or drug store over the next 60 days. It is entirely possible that despite being careful and washing your hands you may unconsciously rub your eyes after touching a contaminated surface, or walk down an aisle where someone recently sneezed and the virus is airborne.

Someone can be infectious without being symptomatic, and they can have the virus for two weeks before becoming symptomatic. So a well meaning responsible person traveling from a hotspot into a more remote area can indeed bring in the virus and infect others. And don't assume all are responsible. I've seen behavior that is anything but.

Travel restrictions may feel draconian, but they are appropriate in this situation. Of the 20 confirmed cases in the Keys right now all but one have been confirmed to be travel related - in other words they were infected elsewhere and brought the virus with them.

Several of those traveled here knowing they were sick. That's hardly responsible behavior.
 
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I'm worried that our healthcare system in this tiny rural state cannot care for our own residents, let alone thousands of non-residents.
This is a serious concern. 30 years of cost cutting in medicine has left us with a system with very little excess capacity - called "waste" by executives. It costs money to carry unused, excess capacity but that is exactly what is needed now.

The hospital in Marathon has not been rebuilt since hurricane Irma. Our nearest hospital is in Key West. That hospital, after several changes in ownership and some downsizing is set up to barely handle the 30,000 or so full time residents plus the normal tourist stupidity. Anyone who is seriously ill is typically sent up the road to Miami -- 10 days ago that became a non-option.

The hospital had two ventilators. They have added a few more but that won't be nearly enough if the virus cases ramp up here the way they have elsewhere.

Quarantining the community is a way to slow the spread and flatten the curve. But before the checkpoint went up on Friday we were seeing a significant influx of people coming down from New York and New Jersey.

I get it. If I were still living in New Jersey right now and had a house here I'd be looking to get the hell out.

But it is reasonable to want to keep people out who may be infected.
 
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Then two weeks ago I was having trouble accessing email on my phone. I got a strange popup message window that I needed to "SIGN IN" I ignored but, I could not check any email on my phone. So I finally gave in and hit the OK button. It took me to another window which was something to do with Google. I thought WTH was this about since my primary email has nothing to do with Google. Then I came across this story today and it all makes sense:
"CDC was asking tech giants for access to Americans’ cellphone locations. That way the government could track the location of every American and see whether Americans are properly practicing “social distancing.” The access was granted. And now the CDC and US government are tracking every American to combat the coronavirus pandemic.

Tracking people by their cell phones was what South Korea was doing in order to enforce their lock down and apparently it has come here to the United States. But don’t worry.
The government would never abuse such a program. Right? :)
The ability to do this in general already exists and is in common usage by data firms. The person behind the cell phone is anonymized, but the phone itself can be readily tracked (and is always being tracked).

Here is an example. A scary example, but not for big brother reasons. https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2020/03/27/video-shows-cell-phones-on-florida-beach-during-spring-break-and-where-theyve-travelled-during-coronavirus-outbreak

I don't think what you experienced was what you think it is. I don't have another explanation, but I also can't think of a reason why you would need to sign into a site to associate yourself with a phone for government tracking. That already exists.

I also think this general ability to track anonymized phone locations could be put to great use in this type of case. Just using the example I linked to, governments would have understood a lot about early distributions and possible hot paths/areas of infection before they occurred.

FWIW, I am a huge libertarian about this type of thing, and am appalled at losing personal privacy and liberties.

Mark
 

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Actually, humans are the cross species. Coronaviruses are predominantly non-human animal viruses. They only infect humans when they mutate and gain the ability to cross into humans and infect them. The current virus is mostly a bat virus, but likely crossed to another species as an intermediary. This is the problem with wet markets, where these wild animals are brought together with humans. It only takes an isolated mutated virus, which would be harmless in its wild hosts, to get near a human to start the problem.

Mark
 

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And don't assume all are responsible. I've seen behavior that is anything but.


Several of those traveled here knowing they were sick. That's hardly responsible behavior.
Same is happening here. It's a fiction to think NYers are coming here and hunkering down in some remote isolated home for weeks or months on end without any effect on the community. If that were the case, I wouldn't be seeing NY license plates all over the place as if it were peak foliage season.
 

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LOL! I'm italian and we can pack enough home made sandwhiches, boiled eggs and thermoses of coffe to drive coast to coast and only get outta the car to "use-a the bachhousa"
Yes...was married to an Italian family. We traveled with only the best cookies and desserts on every road trip
 

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Increasing numbers of states have stay at home orders at this point, but most still do not.
Our Florida governor has just issued a "Safer at Home" order. This order requires people to know they are safer at home than in larger groups and public places. He hasn't said yet how he will enforce the requirement that people know this.

He also ordered several large bridges to be lit up at night with red, white, and blue lights to reinforce patriotism. He declined to answer how patriotism will help Floridians through this time.

He has also surgically shut down beaches of more highly infected counties, while allowing the lower infected counties to remain open. Here is what that looks like in practice (one "lower" sandwiched between two "higher"):

Hopefully, the country can all get on the same page before it is too late.

Mark

 

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