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Those beach photos are scary. As are the it's not ok here, but it's ok there guidance. Hard to believe people are so oblivious to the reality on the ground.

How do they say it? "Coming to theaters near you soon"
 

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You can't just do nothing and then lock people inside.
Maybe you can present staying home as an empowering choice. In order to do so, I think you have to tell people the truth first. There is no evidence that people will stay in before they understand, but I think some reason to hope that they will afterwards. Here's to hoping it's enough.
 

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I gotta say you have a bit of a weird attitude to this stuff.

I wonder if it would change quickly if you got to virus? Or if an older loved one with comorbidities got it?

I wonder if you're appreciation would become a tad more understanding?
I've mentioned this twice already, but here goes again. There is a large group in India claiming successful curing of the virus through drinking cow urine. There is a large group in the US that has claimed to successfully cure people of the virus by "washing them in the blood of christ" (whatever that means).

The only reason one would not believe the above claims is that one's cultural views and experiences leads one to think that these claims don't have valid principles behind their methods sufficient to provide actual proof. However, to those inside these cultures, the opposite opinions from people not of their culture or training are dismissive.

There is no difference between the above and where the HCQ/CQ thing stands today. None at all on a scientific, or even logical level. Will anyone here be drinking cow urine if they get the virus? Will they be recommending it to loved ones? Why not? Just because Elon Musk didn't tweet it?

The only difference is that there is a thin valid scientific veneer around HCQ/CQ that warrants further study. But those studies need to be ones in which proof of concept, safety, and efficacy are testable. The people with actual science and medical training and knowledge should be doing these studies.

These types of valid scientific study can be done in the field, and they can be done without control groups (many people don't realize this), so they can be done ethically when a sick person not receiving the drug poses a certain risk. Statistics are great tools here, and the large scope of the current situation makes them easier to deploy this way. In fact, this may be the largest immediate statistical dataset ever in science and medicine.

But it is unethical to fast track an unproven therapy just because a person in authority with no relevant knowledge has a "good feeling about it".

Mark
 

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Disinformation does kill people. Just like saying 1mm people are going to die, when the preeminent expert on epidemiology says a one to two hundred thousand.

........

Personally, I'm going to listen to Dr. Fauci, Brix and Price, the latter I posted above, and not unverified forum bloggers.
If you are listening to Dr. Fauci and Dr. Brix, then you heard them specifically say that IF the US does everything absolutely perfectly from here on out, THEN the expected deaths will be 100-200,000. Otherwise, it will be upwards of 2.2 million.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/30/white-house-coronavirus-expert-predicts-up-to-200000-us-coronavirus-deaths.html

It is telling that 100-200,000 people dying of a virus this year is now considered a favorable outcome.

Mark
 

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I can readily understand why some people lie:
Can you support your accusation of lies with any evidence? That would be helpful. Hopefully, you were not calling people on this thread liars - it wasn't clear to me.

Mark
 

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I take responsibility for filtering and evaluating my news sources, and educating myself. Self education is not easy, it is not comforting, it is not funny or popular, but it can be done and I would argue in a democratic society it is our duty.
I tip my hat to you, and have a lot of respect. I try to do the same with varying results. Unfortunately, I don't think this is the most common approach today in the US, and I base this opinion on every time I see a TV or read a popular magazine. Along with the abysmal voting turnout.

Mark
 

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Well, I hate to remind Americans that its one of the few countries in the world where in some places you cant buy beer, wine and spirits in the supermarket.
It is really a state by state thing, and even a county/city thing, since these laws are local. New England is bad in this way, but if you went to Michigan, you could avail yourself to liquor being sold everywhere - gas stations, convenience stores, dime stores, even drive through liquor stores where you never leave your car. They close at 2:30am, but open again at 6am. Sundays are special - they don't open until noon.

Mark
 

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And if the number of deaths gets to 200,000 that means that over 10 million would be infected. That's at the current rate. That rate would likely go up as the system gets swamped. We're at 163,000 + now. That's a big hill to climb.
 

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https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/30/white-house-coronavirus-expert-predicts-up-to-200000-us-coronavirus-deaths.html

It is telling that 100-200,000 people dying of a virus this year is now considered a favorable outcome.

Mark
From the article:
“I think in some of the metro areas we were late in getting people to follow the 15-day guidelines” (Dr. Birx) added.

Disinformation from the President matters. 15 days ago he was still communicating to people that this wasn't all that serious. People will die as a result of his ineptitude. He still takes no responsibility.

In the vacuum created by a lack of trustworthy information people will make bad choices. The patchwork enforcement mentioned in earlier posts is a glaring example.
 

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Interview with Dr Fauci

This is a link to an interview with Dr Fauci that runs a little over 13 minutes. It answers most of the questions I've seen in this thread and elsewhere.
 
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If you look at Vermont , where fascist want to hunt down NYers, they never have a shortage of hospital resources and they max out at 6 deaths per day statewide.
C'mon Sal, I've been referred to as racist and now fascist for promoting the message that NYers need to stay home and not come to VT. You're a good guy, I know that, but honestly man, this should not be a controversial issue. I haven't read about anyone here on this forum who has admitted to fleeing for another community to ride out the pandemic, so what and who are you defending?? Again, every single gov official and medical professional is giving the message to stay the f home and not travel domestically.

And as for your website projections for VT, please show me how that accounts for thousands of non-residents currently in VT (for which we have no reliable way to account for), and then I will definitely feel much better.
 

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Stay home, means stay inside and not socially interact, other than for essential activities. It does not define which home. Are we so miopic that we ascribe that mean only the home you spend the most time in? Some people own more than one home, for which they pay taxes to support both communities. Some people live on their boats and have no identified geography. This micro-provisional border protection is nothing short of silly. VT used to be part of NY. What if it still was, would this suddenly not be a problem? State borders are man made. Closing hotels, just as I read in Key West, to avoid tourism makes more sense. The mere presence of license plates is not a thing. The overwhelming majority of them are not infected, for goodness sakes. For that matter, most people in NYC don't have cars.

Brace for this, NYC will be sending sick people out of NYC to surrounding hospitals, when they are overloaded. Are the border protectionists trying to say the sick people are required to stay near their homes and die?

Like it or not, we're all in this together. You can't set up artificial walls.

You can protect yourself.
 

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Like it or not, we're all in this together. You can't set up artificial walls.
Sure you can, but it's not all that effective. The Chinese did it with the Great Wall, the Russians with the Wall in Germany, and the Americans at their southern border.:|

The real problem is that the horse is already out of the barn!
 

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Friends in NC report their little town has put up barricades on the roads leading in.
Simple response to that. Stop sending any outside support to pay for schools, roads, nothing. If they think they can isolate, then cut the state and federal roads off at the edge of their town and lock them in, forever. No commerce across their borders either. They can all try to make homemade microwaves or water pumps, when theirs breaks.

You simply don't get to pick and choose when you will and will not integrate with the rest of us.

To be clear, I'm not advocating less social distancing, I'm just pushing back on the idea that any community can say "mine, mine, mine" with stuff they did not create, let alone pay for, all by themselves.
 

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All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Read up on it......... 14th amedment, Section 1. Passed in 1789.
 
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