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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm about to fly out to a pre-purchase survey on a 1985 Passport 40. I looked at a survey done on this boat last year and apparently the chainplates are original on this '85 boat. Noted was some water evidence near one of the port chainplates. I'll need to replace them regardless and would like to know what I'm in for cost-wise. I'll need to get some 316 SS water jet cut for the new chainplates and open up the interior to get the chainplates in. I'll likely do some of the work myself but may or may not depending on yard policies.

Is this a $4,000 job or is it a $10,000+ job?? How much time would a yard take for this project? What would be a good yard for this in Washington?

My intent is crossing oceans and voyaging for many years. I intend to own this boat for a long time. I'm experienced and have crossed oceans and I build/repair inspect aircraft for a living so not afraid of complex jobs.

The survey indicates a newer Perkins installed in 2000 as well as several items I need such as wind vane and some newer sails and SSB and diesel cabin heat as well as some other recent upgrades.

I realize I'll need to do a refit. I'm hoping not to do a massive years long refit turning into a money-suck. That would be dumb. If you've replaced your chainplates I'd be interested in how that went and it's cost. ...And if you know of anyone on the west US with a Passport 40 who might be willing to sell -I'm buying.

Thanks in advance!
 

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If I understand correctly, all of the standing rigging of a typical sailboat can only be absolutely counted on for 10 years. After that, you are officially "on your own".

Since it sounds like you are in the market for a used boat well beyond 10 years old, and you are going to: "My intent is crossing oceans and voyaging for many years." and with your statement: "I build/repair inspect aircraft for a living.." everything there says you will be replacing the standing rig, including the chainplates.

Compared to rebuilding a plane, replacing any chainplates should be childs' play to you.

I loved your statement: "I realize I'll need to do a refit. I'm hoping not to do a massive years long refit turning into a money-suck. That would be dumb."

If you are doing a refit, it will be long and will cost a lot. Calling this reality "dumb" is "funny" at the least.... :)

Good luck in your purchase!
 

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I don't think water jet is the best tool for cutting chainplates. It leaves a somewhat coarse edge that will need to be cleaned up to avoid corrosion. Personally I'd machine then (CNC or manual).

There is no way that a few custom machined bars of 316 stainless steel should cost $10k.
 

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One you would have to have really GOOD LUCK to find a boat with age X chainplates


The cost is very much how hidden the plates are which can range from fully exposed and easy to remove to absolutely unable to even see them

Making them again depends on what you are copying and there is nothing wrong with waterjet to make the shape it just a matter of to work necessary to finish the edges and bring the holes to final size compared to other methods
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well, refit is a relative word. I guess I meant offshore prep for safety. Refit seems to some to mean "replace everything". I think I used it incorrectly. Currently newer sails, refer, standing rigging instruments and engine indicate a concientious owner. I think a some of the people I see on the list are really brilliant with tools and then again some should not pick up a wrench.
I see the same thing in aircraft -people buy an aircraft with starry eyes then realize they do not have the federal licence to perform the work. Parts are a fortune and so is my labor -but I'm good and very fair. The aircraft sits a long time and sucks money and tie down fees. So I think I know mostly what I'm in for. I'm intently avoiding a "project" boat. I'm attempting to take emotion out of the purchase equation but boats are alluring little beasties.

I'd love to hear what someone who has done a chainplate r&r has to offer as advice on cost and time.
 

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its not the cost of the materials it is the labor from the yard that will put the job in the $6k range. no matter which way you choose to cut stainless you will need to finish the metal to a #7 finish ( mirror ) and passivate it if you want to prevent corrosion. water jet or Laser cut will give you just as good a finish as machining in which to start the sanding and polishing process and will cost a lot less. many boats have chainplates made of standard flat bar and only require being cut to length and drilled then polished. you can also buy flat bar that is already polished to a #7. a bit expensive but saves your on labor. if you think you will keep the boat more then ten years then go Titanium. expensive but no polishing is required to prevent corrosion.
 

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Whats to prevent the OP from replacing the chain plates one at a time? Couldn't the work be done while the mast is still up, the boat is in the water and the yard doesn't have to know about it? That would save him thousands of dollars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I don't think water jet is the best tool for cutting chainplates. It leaves a somewhat coarse edge that will need to be cleaned up to avoid corrosion. Personally I'd machine then (CNC or manual).

There is no way that a few custom machined bars of 316 stainless steel should cost $10k.
-Hmmmm. I thought water jet cut absolutely razor clean edges? Hence the reason for water jet cutting recommendations on chain plates. I know the need to polish and then electropolish to remove stress risers after the cutting. Is your comment that water jet leaves rough edges conjecture or first hand? Jus wonderin. Thanks.
 

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Chainplates are just one item. I'm not familiar with the PP 40 construction. What about the bulkheads they are attached to? If they need repair or replacement that adds additional time and expense. If the surveyor only noted one point of water intrusion, you might not have a major issue there. Worth a close look. As Tommays mentioned, how accessible the chainplates are will either complicate or simplify the task ?

Then there's the standing rigging. But any vessel of that age is going to have needs of that nature that should be built in to the budget, unless they've already been addressed.
 

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Well, refit is a relative word. I guess I meant offshore prep for safety. Refit seems to some to mean "replace everything". I think I used it incorrectly. Currently newer sails, refer, standing rigging instruments and engine indicate a concientious owner. I think a some of the people I see on the list are really brilliant with tools and then again some should not pick up a wrench.
I see the same thing in aircraft -people buy an aircraft with starry eyes then realize they do not have the federal licence to perform the work. Parts are a fortune and so is my labor -but I'm good and very fair. The aircraft sits a long time and sucks money and tie down fees. So I think I know mostly what I'm in for. I'm intently avoiding a "project" boat. I'm attempting to take emotion out of the purchase equation but boats are alluring little beasties.

I'd love to hear what someone who has done a chainplate r&r has to offer as advice on cost and time.
I have been working on aircraft and boats all my life and now I own a machine shop. working on aircraft in front of your shop is demanding work and some times hard because of the tight space requirements. but working on a boat that is in a yard or in the water can be much harder and way more time consuming then you would think. it is not as technical but a bit like working on a big jet on a muddy dirt strip and all you have is a latter and a crescent wrench. if you forget one tool you could be done for the day.
 

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Bad chain plates and newer engine? Doesn't sound like a deal breaker to me.
 
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I think I've read that some people have moved chain plates to the outer hull.
 

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-Hmmmm. I thought water jet cut absolutely razor clean edges? Hence the reason for water jet cutting recommendations on chain plates. I know the need to polish and then electropolish to remove stress risers after the cutting. Is your comment that water jet leaves rough edges conjecture or first hand? Jus wonderin. Thanks.
Water jet does not leave stress risers because the surface is cut with an abrasive. leaves a smooth but slightly wavy surface. machining, laser and plasma cutting leaves stress risers that need to be sanded and polished out to remove them. for corrosion resistance the stainless need to be polished
 

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Am replacing the chainplates on my boat- 8 in total. Cost Stainless metal (316) $25.00 each- cut to size, drilling the holes and welding spacers on the end. $0.00 - exchanged some wood work for the labor. Brought the stainless at http://www.pennstainless.com/ they will custom cut!

Installing- about $30.00 for all new nuts and bolts, and another $40.00 for bedding material.

Whatever you do DO NOT let the boatyard do this project, it's not a big deal, they wanted to charge me $200.00 per piece uninstalled.! Unless hey give you a reasonable price. But you will definitely save a lot of money by DYI.

And I'm doing them 2x a time while the mast is up! no big deal here!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Roland,

Thanks for the support on this project!! You didn't mention the size of boat you did the work on but it sounds like you understand where I'm coming from. Liked that you noted the cost and suppliers. It's what I was hoping to hear. Now I just have to find somewhere to work on my boat if I go ahead with the purchase.
 

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The only big expense in replacing chainplates is if they are inaccessible - glassed to the hull, hidden by elaborate cabinetry etc. or if their attaching points are rotted - bulkhead replacement needed and so forth.

If it's simply replacing like with like it shouldn't even get to a boat buck - assuming you turn the wrenches.

Take one or two out and give them to the machine shop to use as templates. They should be made from flat bar, not cut out of plate with a jet. Get them electropolished for a few bucks more and replace - then two more and so on.

I did them on my Columbia 43, which included a fair bit of welding and the reconstruction of a fairly elaborate headstay fitting for less that $1K.
 
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Roland,

Thanks for the support on this project!! You didn't mention the size of boat you did the work on but it sounds like you understand where I'm coming from. Liked that you noted the cost and suppliers. It's what I was hoping to hear. Now I just have to find somewhere to work on my boat if I go ahead with the purchase.
I'm working on a 34 footer- finishing up somethings- in between the storms and then will start installing my chainplates. Where are you located?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Now THAT is what I'm hoping for! $1000 bucks for parts and a #(*$&load of my labor should work ok. BUT, the surveyor noted that there was water intrusion in the port forward knee. Everything being equal I believe I may go ahead with the purchase simply because all the other things I'd need for an offshore boat are mostly there and fairly servieable/newer. I'll never find a 100% boat unless it's close to $200k and if I do the work I know it's solid. I would not go ahead with a boat that had a timed out engine unless it was completely compensated for in purchase price ie. appx. $18K.
 
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