SailNet Community banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been working on my new 1982 CS36T for several months and finally got a chance to put some load on the sails and rigging this last weekend.
I have a new 150 genoa and main sail from North. We were really going fine to weather in 15-18 knts with the rail in the water. GPS said we hit 6.8knts. I was looking up in the rigging and noticed the port cap shroud had come off the the top spreader. Not a good feeling.
We managed to take load off the rig without noticable damage to the mast. It was bent a little to starboard above the top spreader but we loosened the other shrouds and back stay and it appears to be more or less straight.
I have not been able to get up the mast to investigate, but it appears from the deck that there is a groove and a retainer in the spreader. Don't know how it came off.
Anyone know how the shrouds are connected to the spreaders?
Any comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

John Maschek
s/v Some of its Magic
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,192 Posts
There are all sorts of ways that mfgs. have come up with for securing shrouds to spreader ends, but one of the most common is just to lay the wire in the groove that you noticed and then to seize the wire to the spreader with stainless or monel seizing wire. There are usually a couple of small holes in the spreader for this purpose. If your rigging was loose and the seizing was old, it's likely the wire just broke.
Sometimes, there is a cap that goes over the shroud and screws to the end of the spreader to trap the shroud. Like I said, there are a variety of ways it's done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for your reply.
You are correct, there is a cap on the shroud. It is still there but not attached to the spreader. I thought it was a protective cover, but it should have kept the shroud on the spreader. I will investigate that option when I get up the mast next weekend.
Thanks again.

John Maschek
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
19,488 Posts
Good eye noticing that, and managing to keep the mast in one piece! Had you tacked prior to noticing things may have been quite different!

Well done!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,192 Posts
Thank you for your reply.
You are correct, there is a cap on the shroud. It is still there but not attached to the spreader. I thought it was a protective cover, but it should have kept the shroud on the spreader. I will investigate that option when I get up the mast next weekend.
Thanks again.

John Maschek
The cap you mention is most likely a spreader boot. These should not be relied on to secure the shroud to the spreader. The cap I refer to is usually aluminum and exactly the same shape as the end of the spreader. It's held to the spreader usually with two allen head cap screws. These don't usually require the use of a protective Spreader Boot.
It sounds like you have the kind that would be seized on. Under the Boot you see still attached to the shroud, you will probably find the remnants of the seizing wire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,192 Posts
Not to worry you or anything, but I've seen numerous examples over the years of where someone with good intentions has wrapped the end of the spreader with strips of light sailcloth in lieu of a proper boot. After a few years, there is not much left inside this wrapping but aluminum oxide. I have literally had the entire spreader tip crumble in my hand.
Let's hope what you are seeing up there is a proper spreader boot and that your spreader is still intact.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
FASTER - Yes, I would rather be lucky than smart anyday. We were able to turn down wind to take the load off the sails. Needless to say, I had to remind myself to breath.

KNOTHEAD - It appears to be a proper spreader boot. From the deck there appears to be a machined groove in the end of the spreader and what could be a retaining screw that would/should have kept the spreader in the groove. This boat had NOT been very well maintained, so who knows what I will find next.
The shrouds all seemd to be tight and well balanced prior to the EVENT. There is good rigger at a marina on the other end of Lake Texoma who I plan to ask for help from when I get it back together.

MAINE SAIL had helped me identify the spars as ISOMAT. Maybe this will help identify the correct attachment, if someone has been close enough to that type to have noticed.

Thanks to all.

John Maschek
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
KNOTHEAD - The BF3-1K certainly looks like the culprit. Maybe all the pieces are there and just missing the retaining bolt. Could I be that lucky??

John Maschek
 

·
ASA and PSIA Instructor
Joined
·
4,286 Posts
KNOTHEAD - The BF3-1K certainly looks like the culprit. Maybe all the pieces are there and just missing the retaining bolt. Could I be that lucky??

John Maschek
If the upper shroud had separated from the spreader end, then the speader tip must have not been secured to the spreader by a screw through the end of the tip/spreader. If you cannot see the parts of the spreader tip hanging around the uppers where it passes thru the lower spreader, then I would expect the tip opened up and the two parts seperated and went into the drink. and will need to be replaced. Was there a spreader boot over them...what happened to that?

If it appears the parts are missing, you should order a replacement to have in hand when you go up the mast so you don't have to repeat the trip. get new spreader boots if needed, use a good quality rigging tape.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
SAILINGFOOL - Thanks for the comments. I wish I was sure enough of the actual parts required to pre-order. The spreader boot is still on the shroud or was last week. I'm hoping the parts are still there in the boot and/or the end of the spreader.
John Maschek
 

·
ASA and PSIA Instructor
Joined
·
4,286 Posts
That the boot would be on the sreader deson't make sense. The boot is placed around/over the spreader tip and secured to the end of the spreader tube by running a few layers of rigging tape around its end. It covers the spreader tip, which should been secured in the end of the sreader tube by a through bolt, with the upper shround passingthrough the tip. Makes no sense that the boot could be attached to the spreader and the shround not in the tip covered by the boot...I supose the cast alu tip part could crack, and the shroud rip through the plastic boot.

The part referenced at RigRite is the correct part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Sorry I wasn't clear, the boot is still on the shroud that is off of the spreader. There could be part of the retainer still attached to the shroud and captured in the boot.
Does your CS36T have the ISOMAT spars? I was sure hoping to hear from someone with the same rigging as my 1982 CS36T.
I'll take your recommendation and order the spreader kits from RigRite.
Thanks for the input.

John Maschek
 

·
ASA and PSIA Instructor
Joined
·
4,286 Posts
Sorry I wasn't clear, the boot is still on the shroud that is off of the spreader. There could be part of the retainer still attached to the shroud and captured in the boot.
Does your CS36T have the ISOMAT spars? I was sure hoping to hear from someone with the same rigging as my 1982 CS36T.
I'll take your recommendation and order the spreader kits from RigRite.
Thanks for the input.

John Maschek
If the boot is stilll on the shroud, then the tip or parts of it are still inside the boot. Was the mast recently rigged perhaps someone failed to put the thru bolt in the tip and it was held in place only by the tape around the boot. The other possibility is that the tip fractured and worked out of the spreader tube, leaving the bolt in place - this would seem unlikely as I don't think they see much stress. But if I was going up the mast I'd have two replacements in my chair, if one actually broke, replace the other also. Confirm RigRite will let you return them if not needed.

You definetely want to take this discussion to CSOA...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Mistery Solved - Never attached

Got up the mast this week end (3 times actually) to survey the problem.
The shroud was not in correct position in the retainer on end of the spreader. Only the plastic cap was holding the shroud AT the end of the spreader. I wonder what other surprises the PO has left for me.
The retainer was not like anything pictured on the RigRite internet site. There is a solid aluminum piece welded on end of the spreader with a groove on the end for the shroud. The retainer is just a 3/16" screw with a piece of SS tubing around it to capture the shroud. The screw enters horizintally from forward. I had to remove the spreader and bring down to dock to remove the screw as it was cooroded badly.
Now I need help with retensioning the shrouds and stays.
Does anyone have the specifications for hte 1982 CS36T with ISOMAT spars?

John Maschek
 

·
ASA and PSIA Instructor
Joined
·
4,286 Posts
Tune the rigging by sailing the boat, that's all that matters unless you are racing a one-design want want the ability to re-tune at the dock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sorry, I'm not confident I have the experience to know what I am looking for.
I am most interested in relative tension of the mid and upper shrouds for utilizing the hydraulic back stay adjuster. Should one be looser than the other?

John Maschek
 

·
ASA and PSIA Instructor
Joined
·
4,286 Posts
The upper has greater tension than the intermediate. The CS36T manual has a detail section on tuning the rig have you looked at it?

The funtion of these shrouds is to keep the mast from falling off to leeward, they operate unknowing of the backstay. Tune them so when beating in 15-20 knots, the masttrack is straightand the leeward rigging shows a little slack but doesn't flop around.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks for the information. The manual I have is copies of pieces, but nothing this detailed. Do you know where this may be posted?
I have not seen anything on these sites that mentioned having the manual to download. Does anyone know where this might be?

John Maschek
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top