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I'd rather be sailing
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If it brings us any closer to allowing US travel to Cuba I'll be a happy guy... a bunch of the cruisers we've met are all heading there or are there now, and we can't go. I think it would be an incredible opportunity for our kids, but I can understand some (but not all) of the reasons we can't go... yet.
 

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Change? Maybe Obama put Raul up to it. :D

As for the embargo, buy your charts and a cruising guides 'cuz there's no way The One isn't going to do away with that "tired old policy" -- now let's see....was it a tired old Bush policy? No. Clinton? No. Bush, Sr? Reagan? Carter? Nixon? Johnson? No, it was Kennedy! Obama will do away with that tired old Kennedy policy.
 

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Werent cruisers allowed there for a while during the Clinton years? I seem to remember the policy being relaxed and then reimposed by Bush. I might be wrong though.

Either way I have heard that Raul is an alcoholic old man who wont last too much longer. Good riddance to him when he goes.
 

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Compared to what they must make do with, the average Cuban would consider our detention facility at Guantanamo Bay to be a luxury vacation resort.

Liberals who are eager to visit Cuba will get a kick out of meeting real political prisoners chained up in deep, dark dungeons, secret police who monitor your every move, having their phones tapped, and their news censored. It's a regular paradise!

IMHO the U.S. government should allow unrestricted travel and trade with Cuba. A flood of American tourist dollars and business investment will wash away the remnants of Castro's rule in a matter of months.

Cuba libre and viva McDonalds!
 

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Tired policy

The Cuban embargo has been in place 57 years and not toppled the government yet. Our system of government is better and stronger and wins in a free interchange. An embargo prevents the interchange and enables the governments to hold on to power. End the embargo and start the change.
 

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Aquaholic
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If we could open up China,,,,,,, If we could open up (and topple) the USSR and Eastern Europe,,,,,,,,,, why does anyone think we could not open up (and transform) Cuba the same way? noreault has it exactly right.

We will never "talk" them into changing ,,,,

We will never "force" them into changing ,,,,,,,

Our only instrument of change is inter-change
 

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Corey,

At Club Gitmo, Cuban vacationers would enjoy three wholesome, nutritious meals a day (you can ask for seconds). A private room with clean, running water and a flush toilet. Electricity, television, and hot showers. The ability to worship without restriction. Free, modern medical and dental care. Daily exercise periods. The opportunity to have politically incorrect conversations with your fellow vacationers. Do you think that the average Cuban enjoys such luxury?

The point I am trying to make is that the U.S. treats it's terrorist prisoners at Gitmo, far better than the Castro regime ever treated it's own people. The care and concern we afford to our enemies is something the average Cuban can only dream about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I am of the very strong opinion that the US policy is a failure because they can trade with about every other country in the world. It is not what we are doing with Cuba that is not working - it is what our allies are not doing with Cuba.

Does Europe trade with Cuba? Does S America? Does Canada? Does Russia? In fact, I am not sure who does NOT trade with them except us? So with basically every other country on the planet trading with them and having open relations, kinda makes it hard to pin the fault on the United States for not implementing regime change there! Why would the US opening our borders make Castro and friends suddenly head for the hills? The entire rest of the planet has not been able to enact that change by trading with them, but if the US would only buy more Cuban cigars, well, that would most certainly do it??? Give me a break.

Nah... the policy is a failure because every other country trades with them AND because that regime has a strangle hold on its people where they dare not risk stepping out of line. But what I do not understand is why other countries trade with them??? Is it because they feel that the regime there is great and treats its people well? Is it simply because they make great cigars and you would not want to keep them from being smoked? Or, is it because you could give a crap what happens to some bunch of Cubans in the middle of the night? I am sorry, I have always believed that by openly trading with someone, you are supporting that someone and that regime. To think that your money goes anywhere else but the Cuba's inner-circle is short-sighted.

I believe that before ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE, implements a policy change for Cuba they should have to go to S Fl for a bit and talk to the exiles. Ask THEM what they want - those who have lost every monetary possession they have ever owned; those who have been imprisoned; those who have family that has dissapeared in the middle of the night; those who risked their lives and those of their children to cross a very dangerous body of water on a boat I wouldn't take across a knee-deep lake.

And when they are certain that we still should normalize those relations, I think they should go to the Dry Tortugas and stare south. It won't take long. A boat will arrive with most of the people still there. When they touch the sand, ask THOSE CUBANS what the US should do. No, on second thought, don't ask them what the US should do. Ask them what could possibly make a parent or a person risk their lives, and those of their children, crossing the gulf on a floating POS... and even knowing that if their toes do not touch the sand, they will be sent back to face the consequences of their dissobedience at the hands of their 'government'.

Now, ask yourself, how bad things would have to be for you to do that??

I say keep the policy but impress on our allies to help us support it. After the rest of the world clamps down on them, I say reach out a hand to the leadership and tell them that if they will allow voting, you will do X. If they allow these freedoms, you and your allies will do XX. Or better yet, reach out to the leaders of Cuba an offer them and their families political assylum status and a bunch of money if they will let the country move towards Democracy. IN THE MEANTIME, CRANK UP RADIO FREE CUBA/RADIO LIBERTY AND POINT THE ANTENNA'S SOUTH!!!

My opinions... from someone who has lived in S Fl and actually knows Cuban exiles.

Brian
 

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Val,

Whoa!!

Are you honestly trying to compare the conditions the jihadists experience in Gitmo to the conditions the Jews, the gypsies, the homosexuals, the Poles, and the thousands of German political prisoners faced in the "model" Theresienstadt concentration camp? If so, even the lawyers currently representing the Gitmo detainees might disagree with you.

Arbeit macht frei - "Work brings freedom", is not the right phase to quote.

Wahrheit macht verstandes- "Truth brings understanding" works much better don't you think?

By the way, did you even bother to read my second post on this thread?
 

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It is hypocrisy to claim Cuba is so awful we wont trade with them when we do billions of dollars of business with China. I make no excuses for either of them, but our inconsistency is glaring. The Chinese are no bed of roses even compared to the Cubans.
 

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AEOLUS II
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It is hypocrisy to claim Cuba is so awful we wont trade with them when we do billions of dollars of business with China. I make no excuses for either of them, but our inconsistency is glaring. The Chinese are no bed of roses even compared to the Cubans.
If the Cubans can figure out how to divert funds to the Clinton Foundation their plight would be over in no time!! :laugher
 

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I guess the the fact when arriving here every man, woman and child receive a LARGE check from Uncle Sam AND they get rent assistance AND get free medical AND get food stamps has nothing to do with it. Makes me wish that I could sneak into the country illegally and get some cake . I guess all that time I spent in the military and law enforcement was just a waste of time. This is from someone who also lives in southwest Florida. Just to make things clear, I love the Cubans in Cuba, very nice people.
 

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KNOT KNOWN
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I live and sail in Key West and it drives us CRAZY being so close to paradise, and not being able to go. We can go Iran, or some other place's that are more or less enemy's of the states, but we can't go to Cuba! I sail around it all the time on my way to the western Caribbean or to Jamaica. And when I do I have to plan for 4 to 8 day passages, When I should be gunk hole'n my way around cuba sit'n at a different bar every night! Last time I sailed to Jamacia there was a U.S Coast Guard Cutter sitting on the north east side of Cuba. They Hailed me and asked who I was and where I was going. Does anybody know how much trouble we will actually get in if we go? I recently aquired property in Guanaja and I'll be sailing down every Dec. and back every June I'm thinking of just stopping on my way down.
 

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Bluenoser
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I kinda hope the USA keeps the embargo going...us Canucks really like having Cuba as our very own warm, sunny destination :D (I guess we would have to share if the Cubans decided to let you back in) :laugher

Seriously tho, I hope it gets better for the people of Cuba soon. Read that anyway you want.
 
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