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Big Chicken Baby
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410 Posts
I hope it passes. I fail to understand why it would be harmful for US citizens to visit or trade with Cuba because they are "evil communists" yet it is ok for a bunch of US companies to move their manufacturing to China. Last time I checked, China was hardly a democracy.

I hope it passes and quickly. Being able to go to Cuba would open up a whole bunch of carribean cruising destinations for us.
 

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This can be debated ad infinitum.

However, examining the historical example/ business created opinion/ Pepsi & Kentucky fried chicken fell the USSR not, Ray gun and massive defense spending.
If Cuba becomes a US ‘allowed’ vacation spot the current government / political climate will change within 3 years. The all mighty Dollar will do for Democracy, what 10000 years of isolation and white hooded isolationist policy cannot.

G.f.y.s.
 

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The dollar isn't going to be so almighty if you keep printing it 24/7, but I concur that the way to change the Cuban "system" is to present an alternative face-to-face.

When the Cubans see how the Americans aren't wildly different from the Europeans and Canadians they already see a fair bit of (except for the "being armed" part), they will realize the true worth of the propaganda they've been fed along with the beans and rice for the last 50 years.
 

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Member
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Long Overdue

I hope one day to sail from Key West to Cuba. For anyone 40 or over it will be a unique experience. Those under 40 won't really understand why it's a big deal.

Jim
 

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NON member
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544 Posts
This can be debated ad infinitum.

However, examining the historical example/ business created opinion/ Pepsi & Kentucky fried chicken fell the USSR not, Ray gun and massive defense spending.
If Cuba becomes a US ‘allowed’ vacation spot the current government / political climate will change within 3 years. The all mighty Dollar will do for Democracy, what 10000 years of isolation and white hooded isolationist policy cannot.

G.f.y.s.
Well said!!!

Unfortunately, it seems the only thing politicians and bureaucrats learn from history is NOTHING!!!
 

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For the under 40 members, a post a made I made a while back. I too would like to sail to Cuba someday! The guy that cuts my hair is Cuban. The last time he visited (a few years ago) he was not allowed to leave for the US until he came up with cash. It extended his trip by 2 extra weeks.


A birthday to remember,

A six grade school boy living in northern Indiana, What does he have to do with Cuba?

Late summer 1962, A car comes to the house with a Western Union Telegram. Mom and Dad go out to the back porch to "talk."

Mom and Dad come back in and say Dad has to go back to the Navy. He was a Capt. Navel reserve at the time and his last command was a destroyer in Korea. He had 48 hours to report. Where you going Dad? I don't know was his response. When are going to be back? I don't know.

Some time later they started talking about Cuba on the old black and white Zenith. That must be where's dad going. Mom why is dad going to Cuba? I don't know was the response.

A few more days go by and the Zenith says there are Missiles in Cuba and they are pointed at us. Mom why do they have missiles pointed at us. I don't know. Mom always had all the answers!!!

That night Grissom Air force base went on alert. Grissom was a SAC base and we lived 10 miles off the end of the runway. B52's, B58's, KC 135's. rolling off the runway Every 1 to 2 minutes. I liked watching the planes. I walked back in the house and I could see that my mom was scared, I had never seen her that way before. Mom, why are you scared? Oh, I don't know was her response.

The Zenith said Navel blockade, now I get it. You go Dad!!! Hey mom, Dad's in Cuba and he going to kick some arse. Don't you talk like that, she said. He's there trying to save us. Save us, what for I said? They have missiles and they are pointed at us. Do they want to kill us MOM? I don't know but they don't like us very much. Why don't they like us MOM. Because they want what we have and they don't now how to earn it. Like my jobs and the money I earned for my new .22 ? Not like that she said, It's about freedom, justice, one man one vote, say what you think and read what you want. For not knowing anything, she had the answers.

Weeks went by and a car pulled up to the house, my Dad stepped out in his dress whites. White, black and gold. Ya, thats my dad. Mom went past me in a flash and out the door and grabbed hold of him and both of them almost went back down the steps. I have never been so proud of my folks.
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SaltwaterSuzi/CapnLarry
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609 Posts
Bubb 2 - GREAT POST! Touching. And reveals more than even most of us over forty ever really knew.
 

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SaltwaterSuzi/CapnLarry
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609 Posts
Does anyone suppose that if we had a concerted effort from Sailnet to our congressmen to support the bill to lift the restrictions on travel to Cuba it would do any good? Or is messing with politics against company policy?
 

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The Cuban people don't need exposure to Americans to realize they want our way of life. Or what's wrong with theirs. They constantly risk their lives at sea to get here. Maybe pumping money into Cuba would bring about change. It hasn't worked with China, or Russia, or Venezuela. They all still opress their people and intimidate their neighbors. We send financial aid to keep North Koreans from starving, and they aren't getting any more civilised. The problem in all of these places isn't the public, it's the totalitarian governments. While we haven't managed to starve the Castro brothers out of business, I prefer not to prop them up.
 

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moderate?
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I think they might lose some of us if they started THAT lobbying effort. Lobby yourself. I obey the law but even if it changes would not spend ONE dollar of my money to support that brutal totalitarian dictatorship that makes Gitmo look like paradise.
This is NOT an organization...it is a commercial enterprise and it does not speak for ME on anything.
In my opinion those that would choose to go there have their MORAL compass set on "spin".
 

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In my opinion those that would choose to go there have their MORAL compass set on "spin".

i guess your moral compass must point due north. I mean never buying a Chinese Product and all! Where were those radio's that you sold made? It does not matter how the money gets there, products bought or tourist dollars. A little pot calling the kettle black, me thinks.
 

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CapnTony
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9 Posts
It's stupid to think that in a day when we buy more products from "evil governments" than we produce at home, we should single out certain governments not to do business with. The days of 1960 style diplomancy died when as a country we decided to mortgage our future to the Chinese. Wake up and smell the change. The boogyman does not live in Cuba.
 

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Big Chicken Baby
Joined
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410 Posts
I'd much rather have my moral compass set on "spin" than to be plagued with arrogance and a bad case of moral superiority.

Perhaps what we should do is enforce an embargo against any country that allows its citizens to visit or to trade with Cuba. Oh wait, that means we would have to place an embargo against the rest of the world. That will show those commie Canadians, German's, Brits, Aussies, etc.
 

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Glad I found Sailnet
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3,842 Posts
bubb,

Thanks for that very touching story. It brings it home when you personize it.

Regards

For the under 40 members, a post a made I made a while back. I too would like to sail to Cuba someday! The guy that cuts my hair is Cuban. The last time he visited (a few years ago) he was not allowed to leave for the US until he came up with cash. It extended his trip by 2 extra weeks.


A birthday to remember,

A six grade school boy living in northern Indiana, What does he have to do with Cuba?

Late summer 1962, A car comes to the house with a Western Union Telegram. Mom and Dad go out to the back porch to "talk."

Mom and Dad come back in and say Dad has to go back to the Navy. He was a Capt. Navel reserve at the time and his last command was a destroyer in Korea. He had 48 hours to report. Where you going Dad? I don't know was his response. When are going to be back? I don't know.

Some time later they started talking about Cuba on the old black and white Zenith. That must be where's dad going. Mom why is dad going to Cuba? I don't know was the response.

A few more days go by and the Zenith says there are Missiles in Cuba and they are pointed at us. Mom why do they have missiles pointed at us. I don't know. Mom always had all the answers!!!

That night Grissom Air force base went on alert. Grissom was a SAC base and we lived 10 miles off the end of the runway. B52's, B58's, KC 135's. rolling off the runway Every 1 to 2 minutes. I liked watching the planes. I walked back in the house and I could see that my mom was scared, I had never seen her that way before. Mom, why are you scared? Oh, I don't know was her response.

The Zenith said Navel blockade, now I get it. You go Dad!!! Hey mom, Dad's in Cuba and he going to kick some arse. Don't you talk like that, she said. He's there trying to save us. Save us, what for I said? They have missiles and they are pointed at us. Do they want to kill us MOM? I don't know but they don't like us very much. Why don't they like us MOM. Because they want what we have and they don't now how to earn it. Like my jobs and the money I earned for my new .22 ? Not like that she said, It's about freedom, justice, one man one vote, say what you think and read what you want. For not knowing anything, she had the answers.

Weeks went by and a car pulled up to the house, my Dad stepped out in his dress whites. White, black and gold. Ya, thats my dad. Mom went past me in a flash and out the door and grabbed hold of him and both of them almost went back down the steps. I have never been so proud of my folks.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
 

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moderate?
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1,000 Posts
FWIW...I don't CHOOSE to buy anything from China or Venezuela or any number of other countries where human rights are trampled and slave labor is used. I don't have any CHOICE anymore on some things like TV's...but I was fine buying from Japan and Singapore and Korea when it was possible to do so. This is not about America first...it is about using my money to prop up tin horn dictatorships and pariah nations.
Yeah we have to make some compromises given the lack of choice brought on by our misguided trade policies but I would never freely CHOOSE to spend my $$'s in Cuba OR China. There are a lot of other places I can go cruising without contributing to the oppression of other human beings.
Nice rationalization folks...whatever works to allow yourselves to justify your own pleasure.
 

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Big Chicken Baby
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410 Posts
I don't have any CHOICE anymore on some things like TV's.
Sure you do, go without a TV. Last time I checked, a TV was hardly a necessity but was a luxury.

Look I don't have a problem with you choosing not to visit Cuba because you feel it violates your moral code. What I do have a probelm with is the arrogance of assuming that anyone who doesn't agree with you is an amoral degenerate who supports human rights abuses. Its that arrogance that has given rise to the stereotype of "Ugly American" that many other people have.
 

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moderate?
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1,000 Posts
Good...I am Ugly then...but you ARE lacking in morality if you visit Cuba.
Everyone supported boycotting South Africa during apartheid. This is NO DIFFERENT. It ain't an American thing...I could care less what the law says. It is RIGHT vs. WRONG. Rationalize it and demonize it any way you want to....they ain't trying to get here on styrofoam rafts cause Fidel and Raul are nice guys. Your $$ will keep them in power.
 
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