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Loss of Dry Boat Storage, Boater Slips, Trailer/Tow Vehicle Parking, Dedicated Boater Parking and Accessible Shipyard Space is a HUGE and
IMMEDIATE Boater Problem.

I ask for YOUR immediate help in OPPOSING an impending great loss in Wet Slip, Dry Boat Storage, Trailer Tow/Vehicle Parking, Dedicated Boater Parking and Shipyard Space at a wonderful Harbor. Dana Point Harbor (Dana Point Harbor - Dana Point, CA) is PUBLICLY owned and has 2409 wet and additional 683 trailer/dry boat storage spaces. Strategically located between LA and San Diego, Dana Point Harbor has always been a SAFE and RELIABLE place to stop in and visit or make needful repairs.

An impending "Dana Point Harbor Modernization" plan will have a hearing before the California Coastal Commission on Thursday, June 11, in Marina Del Rey. "Harbor Modernization" sounds great - but the proposed plan may have unintended consequences:



1 - Dedicated boater parking may move up to 1,000 feet away from the docks: A nice hike to haul your Gear!


2 - Dana Point Shipyard may be stripped by 1 acre in favor of a "Festival Plaza". Thousands of resident and visiting boaters may need to take their boat 25 offshore miles - to Newport Harbor - when needed critical repair or normal maintenance is required. Aside from potentially increased consumption of hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel, there are strong adverse impacts on safety and boat maintenance:
- If a boat needs critical maintenance - is there increased safety risk with a 25 mile offshore jaunt to a shipyard?
- It will be more difficult to maintain a boat, therefore the average person's boat may be in a more "run down" condition.


3 -Will there be room to replace the existing 683 dry boat storage locations in the "Commercial Core"? There is no spelled out provision and the expectation is that 100’s of additional boats will have to leave the harbor.


4 - With 477 net slips to be eliminated, the CCC Staff recognizes that perhaps 1,100 boats will likely have to come out of the water. The proposed Land Use Plan attempts to protect these boaters with the same land that in all likelihood is not enough to protect existing dry boat storage: can't have two boats in the same space. (see item 3 above).


5 - Trailer Boater Tow Vehicle Parking Areas: Fewer and smaller spaces with a parking garage in the middle.


6 - No new Yacht or Boating Clubs allowed - EVER!!!! - in Dana Point Harbor. Our Yacht and Boating Clubs have been awesome citizens in the Harbor. Why this exclusion in favor of yet undetermined retail or restaurant space? Do we NEED more shops selling "Cheap Trinkets" which are soon to be landfill fodder along with their packaging?


7 - Parking is now and will continue to be a serious harbor concern. Harvesting boater parking as the "main solution" will not help the massive commercial expansion. In the East Commercial Cove alone - dedicated boater parking will be reduced 60%. Going back to #1, you better be prepared to HIKE - "IF" you can find a space. Creative parking methods of dual use or time of day use are not on the platter.
Note: Slip fee increases: do the math. a reduction of possibly 1100 boats means that "costs" must be picked up by remaining boaters. Prepare for steep increases in fees.
******************************
To help:

1 - Stand up and AGREE with the California Coastal Commission staff.
Boater resources have to be protected within the harbor and not be banished to some "distant location". Simply putting boat storage facilities somewhere on South Coast Water District Rate Payer's Land is not ACCEPTABLE MITIGATION for the City and County's attempt to build stores and restaurants where boaters operate today. Off site boat storage is NOT the same as a SLIP or in harbor surface storage.

2 - Since TIME IS SHORT -> WRITE A LETTER and email or fax it before this THURSDAY HEARING.
Send it to (please send a carbon copy to Bruceheyman”@”cox.net (fax: (949) 489-8352)) so that it can be included in the package for the Commissioners:
Bonnie Neely ==> bonnie.neely"@"co.humbolt.ca.us
Teresa Henry ==> thenry"@"
coastal.ca.gov
Fernie Sy ==> fsy"@"coastal.ca.gov
Bruce Heyman ==> bruceheyman"@"
Welcome to Cox.net
California Coastal Commission: Headquarters FAX: (415) 904-5400 / South Coast FAX: (562) 590-5084
(for email contact - remove QUOTES ( " ) from the given email address)
Bruce (949) 289-8400 will be at the meeting along with boaters throughout southern California, along with members of Boaters for Dana Point Harbor and Dana Point Boaters Association.


3 - If possible, attend the MEETING YOURSELF - and SPEAK up. It does matter - and has PROVEN to be effective.
What happens at Dana Point Harbor can - and likely will - happen up and down the West Coast...

***************************************

So - why is YOUR assistance needed NOW?
1. What happens at Dana Point Harbor will set a very dangerous president that will be used by Harbor Directors up and down the coast to be able to put developments in place of recreational boating resources. We need to make a really concerted effort to get this stopped next week. The Marina Management Company also manages OTHER Marinas and yet OTHER Marinas can (and have in the past) used actions such as this as precedence: What happens here may ripple up and down the coat.


2. Our Harbor Director has sent out letters to various marine organizations asking for letters to be sent to the California Coastal Commission. This request is for support to “Modernize" our harbor. Our Harbor Director will be using these support letters in FAVOR of the "Modernization plan" in his presentation next week. The true implications of the LUP, however, are not obvious without a careful reading.
3. Boaters who speak up CAN HAVE A POWERFUL EFFECT: REALLY!!! Previously, the Dana Point Boaters Association (DPBA) had a profound effect mobilizing harbor boaters in opposition against "Possessory Interest Tax". It was successful.


The Boaters for Dana Point Harbor and the DPBA are in agreement with the California Coastal Commission Staff in that we need to protect the recreational boating resources. WE REALLY need your help to make the case for Boaters - as this Harbor "Modernization" comes up for consideration.

**************************************

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:
www.boaters4dph.com
www.danapointboaters.org

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California Coastal Commission - June 10-12 Meeting

The most important day to be at the California Coastal Commission Hearing is Thursday (June 11) for item 22.5a. However if you can be there on Wednesday then you would have an opportunity to speak to the commission during the public comment period. There are lots of issues that can be brought up.

California Coastal Commission Meeting

June 10-12, 9:00 am - 5:00 pm
Marina Del Rey
LA/OC (South Coast Area) "Marina Del Rey Hotel:
13534 Bali Way
Marina del Rey, CA 90292


Dana Point Harbor Marina Development Plan ( LCPA-DPT-1-08) has been agendized at these hearings. The hearing date for item 22.5a is scheduled for June 11, 2009 starting at 8:00AM (exact time of agenda item #22.5 is not certain).
It is very difficult to predict exactly what the hearing time for item 22.5a will be. Typically there are lots of items moved to the consent calendar or postponed. We won’t know those items till the actual morning of the hearing. I would be surprised if the Dana Point Marina Development topic would occur before lunch. Traditionally, they have never broken for lunch before 12:00 but have gone as late as 1:30.
At this point the best thing to do with the letters is to get them heading to Madam Chair Neely, Teresa Henry (CCC staff in long beach) and a copy to Bryce Heyman. That way Bruce can make sure a copy of the letter is included in the packet.
1 - California Coastal Commission Meeting Announcement:
California Coastal Commission June 2009 Meeting Agenda
2 - Contacts for the Marina Del Rey Meeting:
Madam Chair - Bonnie Neely ==> bonnie.neely"@"co.humbolt.ca.us
District Manager - Teresa Henry ==> thenry"@"coastal.ca.gov
Fernie Sy ==> fsy"@"coastal.ca.gov

Bruce Heyman è bruceheyman”@”Welcome to Cox.net
(to contact - remove QUOTES ( " ) from the given email address)



*****************************************
Interested in the going forward Harbor Finances?
The following meeting is no longer a workshop – it is now open for public comment, and will last the entire County Board Of Supervisors Meeting. This coming Wednesday is for public comment to adopt this fiscal budget:
Orange County Board of Supervisors:

1. (All information listed on CBOS Left-hand NAV Menu Bar):
http://egov.ocgov.com/ocgov/Government/Board of Supervisors
2. Link to leave your CBOS opinion http://egov.ocgov.com/ocgov/Government/Board of Supervisors/Voice Your Opinion Online

3. Online Comments/Opinions Link (limited to 250 characters):
Comment Main frame

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Dana Point harbor boaters MORE than pull their weight. According to a study, Dana Point boaters bring in 70% of the harbor revenue and 79% of the profit. Boater fees are an extremely profitable revenue source for the harbor community.

We need your help to keep our Harbor on the Right Track.... So please come to the meeting, send an email, or a fax today!


--Jerry Robinson
Boat Owner at Dana Point Harbor
(Columbia 28 MK II )



 

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Telstar 28
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this just shows how stupid and short-sighted government can be.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well....

This time the Harbor boaters associations AGREE with the California Coastal Commission. The MARINA Operator and City of Dana Point, of course, want a lot more RETAIL space - but at the expense of boaters.

People can
- email the Commision
- or fax them...
- or GO TO THE MEETING and

It can make a difference. COMMENTING DID make a difference on the "Possessory Tax" issue - a Boaters got a refund...

************
We all can write on a forum - for just a minute's time - send something to the Commission Staff... It will help...

--jerry
 

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As a former resident of Dana Point Harbor I would love to help but since I no longer live in California I don't know if anything I do would carry any weight. If I'm wrong please let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Send an email -
Bonnie Neely ==> bonnie.neely"@"co.humbolt.ca.us
Teresa Henry ==> thenry"@"
coastal.ca.gov
Fernie Sy ==> fsy"@"coastal.ca.gov
Bruce Heyman ==> bruceheyman"@"
Cox.net

and Send a PDF'd Letter...

It will make a big difference...

*****************

I attached WAY TOO MUCH information on my post... SORRY... but If wanted Folks wanted more detail - then I wanted the links there....

********************

IF PEOPLE CAN SEND EMAIL AND LETTERS - it DOES make a difference. This has BEEN CLEARLY demonstrated in harbor recently.

thanks..
---jerry
 

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I've loved that area, surfed there in the 60's, I use to dive in the cove before the marina and was a slip resident there for a couple years (West basin B & C docks)and I'm kinda getting a weird vibe on this topic.

From what I under stood when we were there; nothing is set in stone yet, they have or will have 5 or 6 alternate slip layouts, right now there's 2400 slip with a average size of 29 ft, all the alt. are any where from a 30 slip increase to a 340 slip decrease and keeping the average slip size between 29-33', I also understood that the current slip holders would not be evicted, they may however have to deal with a temporary relocation at some point & time, I understood that when the time came, that when slips were vacated they simply would not be re-released.

Based on the conceptual drawings I've seen a lot of what you've said sounds exaggerated and some of what they propose will actually benefit most weekend boaters ie: enclosed boat storage, the surface boat storgage area ( which will be utilized but the boatyard ) As far as walking a 1000 ft with gear ??, most people load their gear before launching so I don't get that.

I understand I'm not 100% up to speed on this but, that marina and surrounding facilities are pushing 40yrs old, alot has changed in boating population and the surrounding community as you curtainly know and the current setup can need not meet demands on it.

Tell me were I'm wrong so I can better understand the issues now
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Dana Point is beautiful.
The beauty is why people come there increasing the shopping is not why people go there. Remove the marina and what is the point of having the shops people will go to the next beautiful marina.
 

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They're not removing the marina at best they'll add 30 slips, at worst they'llreduce them 300+, but not for retail buildings, they'll be reduced in the number of small slips and add to the number of larger slips.

When you have a 3 month waiting list on slips 30 and under and a waiting list of 17 yrs on slips 35 and over, then it's time to rethink the layout.

As far as retail, I don't think that increases by much if any, the whole thing looks like a revised plot plan to allow better parking, smarter paths of travel and a over all better appearence, like I said the place is pushing 40 yrs and it shows
 

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I've loved that area, surfed there in the 60's, I use to dive in the cove before the marina and was a slip resident there for a couple years (West basin B & C docks)and I'm kinda getting a weird vibe on this topic.
Surfed there during the 60's huh...man, you're getting to be an old fart!...like me.:p
 

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we ain't that old ya o'l fart :laugher
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
There is an article in the OC Register....

Dana Point Harbor revamp plan heads to Coastal Commission | harbor, coastal, commission, slips, boaters - News - OCRegister.com

It is a combination of problems - reduced boatyard space (so... where DO you perform your bottom painting??)

Reduced slips - there will be a significant reduction - AT LEAST 400 slips according to the Calif. Coastal Commission. In addition, there will be severe depletion of some "slip sizes"... Those folks won't have anywhere to go, or at least from what I can see... the "we won't boot" anyone out strategy has a lot of wiggle room...

On the slip size waiting list... with the economic downturn, slip space for sub 28 boats is very low... for long boats - that tie up at the dock ends - it is NEARLY INFINITE.. I would sure like to see that addressed.. but the slip space increase doesn't do it... Wait times of 15+ years are NUTS for your "NEW 65' Macgregors"... :>

I personally don't see what the problem is in simply expanding the slip space to accommodate larger size boats.. I have never seen any real analysis on that point.

I do see, from the article, that there will be 153,000 square feet of new retail/commercial space.

--jerry
 

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I read the DPHR proposal and Calif Coastal Commissons recommedations and it appear that the current proposal does not meet several Coastal Acts



Section 30213 of the Coastal Act states, in part, that lower cost visitor and recreational facilities shall be protected, encouraged, and, where feasible, provided.
Section 30220 of the Coastal Act states, in part, that coastal areas suited for water-oriented recreational activities that cannot readily be provided at inland areas shall be protected for such use.
Section 30221 of the Coastal Act states, in part, that oceanfront land suitable for recreational use shall be protected for recreational use and development unless present and foreseeable demand for public or commercial recreational activities that could be accommodated on the property is already adequately provided for in the area
.

Section 30223 of the Coastal Act states, in part, that upland areas necessary to support coastal recreational uses shall be reserved for such uses, where feasible.
Section 30224 of the Coastal Act states, in part, that increased
recreational boating use of coastal waters shall be encouraged and that nonwater- dependent land uses shall be limited.

Section 30234 of the Coastal Act states, in part, that facilities that serve commercial fishing and recreational boating industries shall be protected and, where feasible,upgraded.

Section 30255 of the Coastal Act states, in part, that coastal dependent
development shall have priority over other developments on or near the shoreline. Coastal-Dependent/Related Development has priority
over other development near the shoreline as stated in the Coastal Act.

In addition, the Coastal Act states that lower cost visitor and recreational
facilities shall be protected, encouraged, and, where feasible, provided and
also recreational boating uses shall be encouraged and non-water
dependent uses shall be limited.
Therefore, the submitted Dana Point Harbor Revitalization Plan is inconsistent with Sections 30213, 30220, 30221, 30223, 30224,30234, and 30255 of the Coastal Act because it fails to provide policies that would protect Coastal-Dependent/Related Development.


Therefore, the LUP Amendment must be denied as submitted.



Also you comment on the need to go north to Newport for repairs ??, Bellport Marine in Newport is 27,000 sf, Basin Marine in Newport is 28,000 sf, Dana Point shipyard is 52,000 plus sf so I don't get this platform you're using
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Dana Point Shipyard may be reduced in size "by 1 acre for a "plaza""...

Your numbers - if you subtract 1 acre is 52,000 sf current - minus the 43,560 sf (per acre)....

So I think in effect you "lose" the shipyard, for all practical purposes... Perhaps there is "some plan" for keeping a part of the shipyard.. but I don't see it - or know anyone who does...
Most small businesses have a tough time getting by.. reduce the shipyard "that much" - and I would think it would be almost impossible... Take any restruant - eliminate the seating and table space... - leave the rest rooms.. and let's see them make a go of it... TOUGH!!!!

So I consider that the result would be:

-- The "shipyard" area "left" would be almost impossible to do work in - certainly for larger boats....

-- routine maintenance - like bottom painting and the like - would have to be done far away... As a piratical (practical?) matter, I would think that the AVERAGE BOAT would find it MUCH HARDER to do the necessary things to keep them in good shape... So you are GOING TO FIND more "run down boats"....

-- as an exercise in math... consider that the boats in slips will be going to Newport (or further) for bottom work and repairs at least every couple of years... I calculated that HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of GALLONS of fuel would be burned in doing this... It's a math exercise...

-- some boats - with critical maintaince - might have to make that long, offshore haul. This IS A SAFETY ISSUE... Example: Rigging or mast corrosion issues? Go to Newport and get hauled... Note that this is just my example.. there are others, I guess...

************

Poopdeckpappy...

I think you hit the nail on the head... But TOMMORROW - there will be a hearing and I think it matters if boaters send an email registering (a) a protest against the current plant and (b) thier opinion...

--jerry

BTW... My 28' Columbia MKII is a bit older than your '78... but it's Classic Plastic... and I would like to keep it as long as I sail... So it will need yard space - and I will buy supplies from HARBOR MERCHANTS... I think you might be doing th same thing. Move the 'yard... and most folks will buy supplies LOCAL to the 'yard.... not good for Dana Point Merchants...

*****************

So please - send an EMAIL and/or FAX tonight - or in the morning... --thanks...

******************

--jerry
 

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Jerry, don't get me wrong, I'm on your side and it looks as though the Coastal Commission is as well but, I don't think the facts are getting stated correctly

Currently the shipyard is on a 113,000 sf lease area. However, the shipyard operator has historically used only 52,000 sf for shipyard operations with parking on another 0.4 acres. The remaining acre has been historically used for dry boat storage.​

The County/City wants to reduce the shipyard land use area to 69,600 sf and has presented information indicating that 69,000 sf is adequate for a viable shipyard, even with a reconfigured marina with larger boats. The shipyard wants to retain the shipyard lease area at 113,200 sf, stating that the entire area is needed to maneuver and properly service the larger boats that will be moored in the Harbor under the proposed reconfiguration.​

The LUP as modified would require the County/City to retain the shipyard land use designation on a minimum of 69,600 sf, but would allow for a larger facility since a shipyard is an allowable use under the MSC land use designation.​

Also, back to the slip issue, my wife and I have walked or kayaked most every inch of that marina and I think you would agree that you'd be able to find a countless number of boats that either hasn't seen its owner in years, hasn't had the registration renewed in years and some that have no business being in the water let alone taking up slip space, I also think you'd agree that brokers and clubs seem to take up far more slip space than should be allowed, I think if those issues were addressed, the impact of the loss of slips would be minimal
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
From the information being "presented"....

In today's meeting, the whole "Plan" discussion was rescheduled to Ocean Side in October. So the shipyard issue is one item I will certainly learn more about the use definition of... From the comments made - I think that there were many confusing items in the plan - things that were not spelled out enough.. Hence, the reschedule to October..

I will certainly get more detail on the shipyard issue... (I do, after all - have a bottom job coming up on my boat...)...

If I am incorrect in my understanding, then I most certainly apologize as well.

Dana Point Harbor is a "big place" compared to a lot of places... I compare it to a number of places on the Texas Coast - and Dana really does show well....

I was a member of a Harbor Sailing Club for a while.. they had some boats in slips - for sure - these boats had been leased from boatowners. They were used to teach sailing - in multiple courses. The boats were also available to people to rent for short term use - depending on the sailor's skills... I think that was an OUTSTANDING way to multitask a slip - for hundreds of people to enjoy....

I also know that brokers had access to a number of slips as well.. I guess the merits on that can be discussed from different standpoints. I know that if you want to sell or buy a boat, then such an arrangement can be critical in the process. You know what the wait list has been like... something to bridge the "permanent" wait IS needed for temporary slip use.

Like you say, I want only to deal in the facts - and what I picked up in reading the LUP.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

the sailing club I was a member of had many hundreds of members... I had some great Friday/Saturday nights there - as well as friendships of fellow boaters... I think they serve an EXTREMELY IMPORTANT niche - as there are a LOT of interested boaters - with no slip or permanent boat... Lots of people learned sailing and navigation in the club... It certainly rankles that such "new" clubs could be prohibited..... and that might be another "unclear" spot in the LUP.......... It did NOT make any sense to me to ADD 150000+ square feet of retail - and yet prohibit new sailing/yacht clubs... which is one of the KEY ways for new folks to get into boating...

Clubs are something else to follow up on.........

I strive to be accurate in what I have posted - I do apologize if I am off base on something... However I certainly considered that to describe the plan as "Modernization" - or "Revitalization" was somewhat deceptive. The devil is in the details.

--jerry robinson

--jerry
 

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In today's meeting, the whole "Plan" discussion was rescheduled to Ocean Side in October. So the shipyard issue is one item I will certainly learn more about the use definition of... From the comments made - I think that there were many confusing items in the plan - things that were not spelled out enough.. Hence, the reschedule to October..

I will certainly get more detail on the shipyard issue... (I do, after all - have a bottom job coming up on my boat...)...

If I am incorrect in my understanding, then I most certainly apologize as well.
Did you mean Oceanside, Ca.?

Is Dana Point a public or private marina?

QUOTE=dvideohd;495448] Dana Point Harbor is a "big place" compared to a lot of places... I compare it to a number of places on the Texas Coast - and Dana really does show well....

I was a member of a Harbor Sailing Club for a while.. they had some boats in slips - for sure - these boats had been leased from boatowners. They were used to teach sailing - in multiple courses. The boats were also available to people to rent for short term use - depending on the sailor's skills... I think that was an OUTSTANDING way to multitask a slip - for hundreds of people to enjoy....

I also know that brokers had access to a number of slips as well.. I guess the merits on that can be discussed from different standpoints. I know that if you want to sell or buy a boat, then such an arrangement can be critical in the process. You know what the wait list has been like... something to bridge the "permanent" wait IS needed for temporary slip use. [/QUOTE]

How long are waits on the waiting lists?

QUOTE=dvideohd;495448] Like you say, I want only to deal in the facts - and what I picked up in reading the LUP.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

the sailing club I was a member of had many hundreds of members... I had some great Friday/Saturday nights there - as well as friendships of fellow boaters... I think they serve an EXTREMELY IMPORTANT niche - as there are a LOT of interested boaters - with no slip or permanent boat... Lots of people learned sailing and navigation in the club... It certainly rankles that such "new" clubs could be prohibited..... and that might be another "unclear" spot in the LUP.......... It did NOT make any sense to me to ADD 150000+ square feet of retail - and yet prohibit new sailing/yacht clubs... which is one of the KEY ways for new folks to get into boating...

Clubs are something else to follow up on......... [/QUOTE]

While it is very convient for sailing clubs to center their meetings and classsroom sessions around a harbor, by not holding meetings or classroom sessions at a harbor in no way restricts the formations of sailing clubs.

QUOTE=dvideohd;495448] I strive to be accurate in what I have posted - I do apologize if I am off base on something... However I certainly considered that to describe the plan as "Modernization" - or "Revitalization" was somewhat deceptive. The devil is in the details.

--jerry robinson

--jerry [/QUOTE]
 

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Jerry, Thanks for your involvement and the heads up on the Oct meeting in Oceanside, if I can make it I'll go to show support, I don't want to see DP commercialised anymore than the next boater, but it is in desperate of some upgrading.

Jerry, I apologize that I came across as accusatory, that was not my intent
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I think Marinas should be successful in business!!! That's how they stay in business and keep a good operation going!!! I just had some an issue with commercialization replacing boating!!!

There is certainly need of updating - but the harbor is in pretty good shape as is... So it is not critical - and there is time to do it right.

I appreciate your comments on the boatyard.. If the revitalization plan DOES NOT reduce or eliminate - then that should certainly be made clear.

Dana Point Harbor is publicly owned - and operated by a private management company. The management company ALSO manages other marinas.

--jerry
 

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I think Marinas should be successful in business!!! That's how they stay in business and keep a good operation going!!! I just had some an issue with commercialization replacing boating!!!

There is certainly need of updating - but the harbor is in pretty good shape as is... So it is not critical - and there is time to do it right.

I appreciate your comments on the boatyard.. If the revitalization plan DOES NOT reduce or eliminate - then that should certainly be made clear.

Dana Point Harbor is publicly owned - and operated by a private management company. The management company ALSO manages other marinas.

--jerry
I find it interesting that Orange County or the City of Dana Point has farmed out the management of their harbor, when either one of them could be managing it themself. I know of several public harbors that are managed by the cities that they're in, but this is the first time I've heard of a California public harbor that is managed by the private sector. I guess I learned something.
 
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