Deck Options : Crazing and POOR Maintenance

600 pics to go through - that will keep you busy. I'd sand down to good structure and fill these areas with a thickened epoxy mix. Ultimately paint like Interlux Perfection which is durable and long lasting. The non skid areas I would tape off and use Kiwi Grip, Interlux Interdeck or similar. When I finish mine I think I'll use Kiwi Grip as I've heard nothing but good about it. Anti-skid Boat Decks from Pachena LLC - KiwiGrip anti-slip deck coating
Some of the crazing looks like just old age, some is obviously stress like the stanchion areas where you might like to strengthen the deck underneath these places so it's not likely to flex in the future, and some looks like in concave areas where it's commonly found on boats much younger than yours. I don't know what that is in the last picture either - looks like a bad attempt at a fix with some kind of putty though.
No, I think the gel is not worth saving in total but with a good paint job and non skid it'll look like new or better. If you were to try and save it you'd have a hell of a time matching colors in such large areas and I think it would after a lot of work look patchy in any case.
As far as your keel (I know it's another thread) I'd grind the cracks down to clean glass and epoxy fill then cover with a layer of cloth and epoxy, maybe even 17/8 biax which is 17oz stitched cloth and 3/4oz mat on one side and very strong. I don't think the steel should be much of a problem as the ballast is apparently mostly lead. The weeping on the outside does need attention as well. Hope this helps.
Brian

As soon as I saw the pic I KNEW it was a Contest.

I used to have a 27 which was afflicted with similarly poor gelcoat.

I had my deck painted with awlgrip by Stevens yard in Miami (it was very well done, and the price reflected it), and thought it was going to be a long term fix. But after 3 years or so, the extremely crazed gelcoat had "worked" sufficiently under the primer and paint that the canyons began to open once again. In another year my expensive paint job looked like yours.

Judging by the brown patches showing under the white in your pics, it appears that your 33 is devouring its paint job as well.

I no longer have that boat, but if I had to paint one like it again, I would do it with something other than the very hard and ineleastic two part polyurethanes after taking off as much of the wandering gelcoat as practicable.

At least you don't have to deal with the nightmare of an old Volvo....

Never. Again. EVER! for moi.

Their parts support sucks large...Pricey as airplane parts.

cardiop...Point taken. krozet, not sure how it works in Canada, but I would think you will need a new survey to insure the boat anyway. Its well worth the money.

An old survey isn't much better than an old toothbrush....

The awlgrip job on my old Contest 27 was done by a reputable yard with plenty of experience applying the paint.

They remarked on the state of the gelcoat, and a big expense was their prep efforts.

Might add too, the boat was only 11 years old at the time. Simply put, regardless of their reputation, Conyplex put out some marginal product in the '70s. It was a really BAD gelcoat job on that boat...And it looked the same as this Contest 33 does.

Frankly, I will never get a deck two part painted again. You will bemoan that first ding. IMHO, the better course is to just accept that once painted, expect to do it again one day (if you own the boat long enough), and go with the one part polyurethanes.

I'd say he bought the boat KNOWING the deck was the way it is, and since it was purchased with that knowledge, it's a safe assumption that it was purchased as a project.

He's asking for information on how to proceed with a repair, not purchase advice, where survey information would be appropriate.

My advice, best way would be to sand down to remove the cracks and paint with a quality paint.
Isolated cracks can be repaired by Veeing out the cracks and refilling with gell coat, but too many make it overly time consuming.

Something you can try, remove any loose flakes, wash with a solvent, then paint thinned resin over the cracks. When it cures, sand down again. repeat untill the cracks are filled. Penetrating epoxy works great, but I have also used heavily thinned paint. Idea is to use it the same as scratch filler primer.

I've repaired a few things that way, a fairing for a motorcycle about 6yrs ago still looks good, my O'day sprite seat/mast support, (still looked good 4 years later when I sold it) and several areas on my portager. The only areas it hasn't worked on was in the motor well of the portager and the rear of the cockpit floor. I attribute that to possible 2stroke leaks that I didn't get cleaned up well enough.

Ken.

I go with the painting. I've seen it work great. You may need to add nonskid to the paint.

The major problem with uncared for boats however is improper installation of deck fittings and water leakage into the core and consequent core decomposition especially with balsa cores. You usually pick this up with delamination bubbles on the deck. If you drill a hole in the underside of the deck and water comes out you've got leakage. Sometime you can just rebed all the fitti9ngs live with this for a long while with plywood cores. The ultimate fix is real ugly... like cutting out the rotted upper layer of fiberglass over the affected deck areas. Replacing the damaged core then fibergalssing the deck piece back in place and then repainting.

The only point in mentioning this is If you're going to do a knock down dragout overhaul you would't want to paint the deck then have to tear parts of it up to do the repair.

Don Casey's Thos Old Boat is a good reference for restoring old boats

The major problem with uncared for boats however is improper installation of deck fittings and water leakage into the core and consequent core decomposition especially with balsa cores. You usually pick this up with delamination bubbles on the deck.

Can't speak to krozet's 33, but my Contest 27 had a solid glass deck. There were stringers glassed in to provide stiffness in certain areas. I suspect the 33 is built the same way, so at least deck core issues won't be a factor.

The biggest deck issue -beyond the awful gelcoat- I had was that the underside of the deck fittings were glassed over.

Spent many an hour cussing who ever did that, as getting to the nuts on the underside of stanchion bases, etc. was a major PIA.

krozet, the good news is the interior of your 33 still looks good....And you won't find nicer interiors than those found in that vintage Contests. Also there were alot of great design elements that Dick Zaal included in those boats.

Cardiacpaul...

Paul, I don't take it personally that you have a point of view that differs from mine but since you took the time to post in my thread let me clear up a misconception.

Personal disclaimer. I am a first time boat owner. I was looking for something structurally sound without all the bells and whistles (radar, chartplotter&#8230 and a running diesel would have been a plus. I have background experience with gas engines and carpentry.

This boat sort of fell into my lap as the result of a second offer through eBay and I paid just over $5,600 for it. I had no intention of buying a boat until next spring and was looking at spending up to $45,000 on a Niagara 35. This boat also came with an insurance survey that was 11 months old done by a surveyor to provide risk assessment for insurance purposes. The insurance survey listed some tabbing issues as the only structural repair needed as a precursor to extended sailing. The buyer I purchased the boat from had intended to sail it back to Holland.

I am not a babe in the woods nor do I consider myself naive, yes I do understand that the seller could have been lying about their intentions for the boat. The seller was very open though providing me the insurance survey, a copy of the bill of sale from when he purchased the boat, receipts from money he had invested in repairs and parts… I called the survey company to verify that this was not a forged document and they confirmed the survey number, marina and boat name. The seller was selling the boat for almost half of what they paid for it and with almost $3,000 in parts and repairs. This does not include the work done by the person that sold the boat to the previous owner as I had receipts from them too.

I looked into the possibility of hiring a marine surveyor to check this boat before I bought it and the best price I could find was $725, and that was talked down from $825 ($25 per foot). That is 13% of the purchase price of the boat! That is also equal to the winter storage fees for the boat, or the Canadian taxes due on the boat. I can justify paying $900 for a survey on a $45,000 Niagara 35, which is 2% of the total cost of the boat. I researched the boat and found that there was no cored hull so I knew that this would not be an issue, I also found that despite some known problems these boats were well suited for what I wanted to do. Now since I had an insurance survey that satisfied the number one point that the boat was structurally sound and in that report I found that the mast was in good shape, the sails were in good shape, the standing rigging was new, there was a new fuel tank, new batteries, new holding tank and well installed head among other positives I decided to purchase the boat. Did I need a hired professional with an unbiased opinion as to the current condition of the vessel? No, I did my research and knew going in that there would be problems to deal with. Did I know that there were going to be problems? Of course, the boat had been on dry land for 5 years. But I reiterate the point that it met my basic requirements and I had done my homework.

Here is where I do take offense to your post, this boat was inexpensive and I did get a deal. I am looking forward to putting in some elbow grease and I do have a 'do it myself' attitude, always have. Every project I start gets finished properly as I take pride in doing a proper job. All great things.
That being said I am here looking for expertise from boat owners that have tackled these types of problems. You are right, I am looking for help, I came to a website devoted to boating then navigated to the public forum dedicated to gear and maintenance. I posted a question, not an invitation for someone to come sand my gel coat, paint my deck or buy me a book explaining the process. You will notice that I have posted nothing asking about wood working, there is a problem with some of the teak but since I have experience with wood working I can tackle that myself. Since I have no experience with gel coat repair I thought the best thing to do was ask for some guidance. I also bought Dan Casey's Complete Illustrated Sailboat Maintenance Manual. I was just looking for any additional information that someone who has done this repair might want to share.

In your opinion after I complete the repairs to the deck those repairs will far outweigh the value of the boat? Maybe but the value of the repair to me is more than just what I sell the boat for, I will gain firsthand experience repairing and maintaining the deck of a sail boat and I will be able to make my mistakes on a boat that I paid $5,600 for, not a boat I invest a lot more money into. Heck, I might pick 3 different repair techniques and divide the deck into 3 sections and see what works the best. Yes I do have a stack of power tools as well as a sanding block, sand paper and my hands. I don't have the experience but that is why I came here, to find out what to watch out for and what to expect. Do I have time? Oodles of it, I am 30 and lucky enough to get paid very well but only work 40 hours a week. I want to retire in 2 years and sail away taking a few years off while I am young. I have enough money in the bank to live nicely on my boat for 5 years without touching my retirement funds. If I have to delay for a year while I finish the deck the only thing that will grow will be the cruising kitty. I have also researched repair yards where I am to allow me the ability to perform needed work before I leave.

Why would I assume that I could buy Awlgrip at Walmart? For that matter why would I assume that anything I tackle as a repair on a vessel I plan on entrusting with the safety on myself, friends or family would not be a chore? I am not about to feel angst applying it, I am going to prep a small area, follow the directions and apply it. Then I am going to allow it to set as per specifications and ensure proper setting before I move onto another area. After spending time as an assistant chef for my summers in high school I know the importance of prep and following a recipe. The only reason for apprehension would be poor prep, not reading the instructions and not seeking out information before starting, I'm just saying.

Getting a 'fly by' from a professional would have given me no more information than I already have, I knew the deck was going to need work as I knew the other relevant issues that would need to be addressed. I also had a pretty good heads up that I was going to find other things that needed to be addressed. Assuming that I made an uninformed decision based on a thread where I was asking for my options as to how I should handle the deck issues doesn't show my ignorance. No where have I found that a surveyor would have given me direction on how to fix the issues I have with the deck and even if they had, I still would have checked out a second opinion. On quite the contrary I have been contacted by a previous owner of this very boat who had a professional marine survey done and the surveyor missed a critically important issue that could have put the boat and its crew into a deadly situation.

Again, I understand that you have a specific point of view and take no offense to that point of view; nor take anything you said personally. That being said, running down people posting in a public forum for 'help' when that forum is dedicated to sailing, where people come for advice and to share stories and then saying 'don't take it personally' is more than a little disingenuous. I understand and agree that in most situations a survey is a requirement of purchasing a boat, there are also situations where it is not needed. As you put it, I will chalk up the bulk of your post to a "half dead, cranky crippled old coot with too much time on my hands." and not take it personally.

sidmon said:

The major problem with uncared for boats however is improper installation of deck fittings and water leakage into the core and consequent core decomposition especially with balsa cores. You usually pick this up with delamination bubbles on the deck.

Can't speak to krozet's 33, but my Contest 27 had a solid glass deck. There were stringers glassed in to provide stiffness in certain areas. I suspect the 33 is built the same way, so at least deck core issues won't be a factor.

The biggest deck issue -beyond the awful gelcoat- I had was that the underside of the deck fittings were glassed over.

Spent many an hour cussing who ever did that, as getting to the nuts on the underside of stanchion bases, etc. was a major PIA.

krozet, the good news is the interior of your 33 still looks good....And you won't find nicer interiors than those found in that vintage Contests. Also there were alot of great design elements that Dick Zaal included in those boats.

Click to expand...

Hey Sidmon;

Thanks for all the info, and yes I do like the interior of my boat. The good news is that most of the teak has stood up well and needs little work. I will have to remove the sole, kitchen area and chart table area to sand and varnish all the wood before reinstalling it. All the latches worked well and each hatch / door had an extra safety latch (just a piece of varnished teak) to hold them closed. I am happy how much room there is as well, the designer did a good job utilizing all the available space.

No, since the insurance survey was done 11 months ago and the boat has not been in the water I do not need another insurance survey done.

My grandfather has a machine shop and does metal fabrication work for custom cars so I have asked him for some shop space and assistance in building a bimini frame with a new stern pulpit rail, and a new bow pulpit rail. The boat has a bow roller but I might look into the cost of building a dual roller as opposed to the current single roller.

Robert

tommays said:

I get paid to fix stuff and paint stuff and the point here is that people don't realize that its almost imposable to do deck work correctly OUTSIDE due to the necessity of reasonably consistent temps to work in and the owner lives in Canada.

It cant be to cold Or to hot to much sun or any RAIN

You looking at hundreds of hours of prep time it took my friends 6 months of FULL time work with a retired SKILLED uncle putting in 8 hours a day 5 days a week during a miracle winter were it stayed above 50 degrees.

My advise would be to find used greenhouse parts and buy a 2 year cover and go at it

Click to expand...

I was looking at doing all the sanding prep next year between May and September then fooling around with testing different techniques over the months of September/October weather permitting. This will allow me to actually start application of what I found to work the following March/April/May again weather permitting. I am going to divide the deck into 8 sections and do a single section at a time. This will allow for up to three weeks prep time per section, about 75 hours per section. I figure that the first three sections will take more time but the last three will go quicker as I grow in experience and confidence. If I find that I just cannot get the application to set properly I can always pay to have it finished, I will have done the bulk of the work on the prep side.

That's the plan anyway, you know what they say about best laid plans.

merc2dogs said:

I'd say he bought the boat KNOWING the deck was the way it is, and since it was purchased with that knowledge, it's a safe assumption that it was purchased as a project.

He's asking for information on how to proceed with a repair, not purchase advice, where survey information would be appropriate.

My advice, best way would be to sand down to remove the cracks and paint with a quality paint.
Isolated cracks can be repaired by Veeing out the cracks and refilling with gell coat, but too many make it overly time consuming.

Something you can try, remove any loose flakes, wash with a solvent, then paint thinned resin over the cracks. When it cures, sand down again. repeat untill the cracks are filled. Penetrating epoxy works great, but I have also used heavily thinned paint. Idea is to use it the same as scratch filler primer.

I've repaired a few things that way, a fairing for a motorcycle about 6yrs ago still looks good, my O'day sprite seat/mast support, (still looked good 4 years later when I sold it) and several areas on my portager. The only areas it hasn't worked on was in the motor well of the portager and the rear of the cockpit floor. I attribute that to possible 2stroke leaks that I didn't get cleaned up well enough.

Ken.

Click to expand...

Hello;

I really like that idea, the whole point of the prep is to get the smoothest, most stable surface to apply the paint too. Approaching it one section at a time and sanding it progressively, paint with resin, let set, sand and repeat till the surface is flat makes great sense. This might also help in cleaning out the bad repairs and re-surfacing them through building up.

If a quality resin is used that can stand up over time and the proper paint is applied on top that will stick to the resin, this sounds like a winner for repairing the deck.

And yes you are right, I knew about the deck and was not worried about the amount of work to bring it back. I just want to be sure I am using the right technique.

Thanks;

Robert

Fascinating that there are two threads with similar subjects and similar 'go for it' and 'not so fast' commentary. The photos point out what we all know to be true- many older,otherwise stout and very-seaworthy boats are shedding their gelcoats like molting snakes [with same not so attractive results]. Should the boats be broken-up? No. Should all their owners opt to professionally restore at the expense of the children's education? I wouldn't judge them if they did,but doesn't seem likely. So how about we help and encourage them if we can? I have done this work for others many times,and a bit for myself, it's completely do-able by most dedicated people. I posted because I read too many suggerstions that experience tells me won't work-there are many sources for detailed info,so I won't go there except to strongly advise trying to get boat totally covered,with good room to work...and to remove all fittings from deck..and ,most important enjoy the project. I don't think you will regret the effort if you wind up pleased with the results. You might regret it if it looks sad because you didn't do a good enough job to meet your own standards.

krozet
If I have not already in a previous post, congratulations on your purchase. I am one of the can do types not a naysayer. Here's a couple of links to peruse over the winter that may help you with the deck and other items as well. The first is
The Plastic Classic Forum • Index page
where almost everyone who posts regularly is either going through what you are or have already done so. Ask a good question and you'll get a quick response from someone who has actually been there not just read about it.
The other site is Northern Yacht Restoration | Tim Lackey: One Man, One Boat at a Time
This is the commercial site owned by Tim Lackey (who also owns the first site) and documents his work, boat by boat, step by step. He has done many restorations from the keel up, rebuilt and modified interiors, and redone almost all of these boats' decks. He's a master at restoration and also gives time required for each stage which can also be helpful. All pictures on the site enlarge and he takes lots of pictures. You can go through each restoration to see exactly how he proceeds on each aspect of the job.
Hope this helps.
Brian
ps I think you got a great deal and are going about work needed in a thoughtful manner.