SailNet Community banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a new to me 83 Cal 3-27 and I am in the planning stages of a haul out, cleaning and bottom job, but this DIY marina/yard charges by the day (and I don't have much time on my hands to get this done), so the quicker the better and if I can do it over the weekend even better. I have done a bottom job on my first boat 76 Chrysler 22 which went well, but it had a trailer and I could work on it at my own pace in the parking lot of my warehouse. I have never used stands before nor had a boat hauled out so I am looking for advice.

To start off with here are the published rates for the marina...
Haul out $1.85/ft = $49.95
Launch $1.85/ft = $49.95
Short haul out (two hours in the straps) $3.75/ft = $101.25
Pressure wash and scrape $1.50 - $2.25/ft = $40.05 - $60.75
Block (one time charge) $55 for my size
Work Area (including water and electricity) $.50/ft per day = $13.50/day

So at a bare minimum to inspect the condition of the bottom I would use the short haul out option @ $101.25. If by some miracle the bottom is good looking ( I already know it has a few barnacles on it based on peaking over the edge on a decent heeling angle) what should I have them do? If the boat had a hard bottom paint previously then a pressure washing and scraping would be fine as it would bring out new copper to the surface. However if it was an ablative paint then the pressure washing will remove a good chunk of the paint along with the bad stuff.

If the initial haul out proves to need a good bit of work, I will have them do the pressure washing and scraping to remove as much junk as they can (first question is how do they pressure wash and scrape under the straps?). Then have them put me in stands so I can start prepping the bottom for a new paint job. Haul out, pressure washing/scraping, placing on stands, and launching will run $215.65 + the daily charge. Then we will have the actual painting supplies, but I don't want to get into those costs just yet ;)

Things get tricky for me as I do not know how to move the stands to paint those areas of the hull that blocked by the stands.
Also how long after the first two coats are completed should I wait to move the stands? I wouldn't want the fresh paint to get stuck to the stands.

Any tips or advice based on your previous experience would be very helpful.
Zac
 

·
Remember you're a womble
Joined
·
2,328 Posts
OK, so they won't wash or scrape under the straps, you need to do that as soon as the boat is on blocks (if you get onto blocks), if they plop the boat straight back in, you just live with having a stripe of dirty on your otherwise fairly clean hull.
The yard will move the stands for you, way too much of a hazard letting you do it yourself. How soon after painting depends on the paint, but if you cover the stand with plastic before they position again, it will minimise paint adhesion to the stand. Some people don't even bother doing that, they just slap on some paint on where the stands were while the boat is in the slings waiting to be splashed.
Always talk nicely to the yard guys, they are usually willing to be a little more co-operative with you than if you are an a-h.
 

·
Bombay Explorer 44
Joined
·
3,619 Posts
I do my own bottom job on a 44 ft. Explorer.

Find out from the PO what anti fouling he used. If VC 17 you have issues to deal with,

Main stream ablatives go over most soft and hard afs.

The pressure wash should remove all weed and soft stuff. The scrape will take off the head of the barnacles but leave the feet. They will not move the slings so you two stripes untouched. Just some extra scraping.

Scrape off those pesky barnacle feet. A stiff 3 in scraper is what I use.

Wet sand the bottom. If reasonably smooth I use 120 rough 80 get 3M not the cheap stuff.. There is an articulating head which fits on a pole and holds a 1/4 sheet buy one and use it makes the job much less tiring, saves your back and is at least 3 times faster.

Wash down. Tape. Apply 2 coats and a third to waterline use a tray and a 9 inch roller wiyh a 2 in chip brush , keep a little for the pad patches. Some yards will give you 1/2 an hour in slings others will move the supports for you. Most yards really dislike you moving your own.

Retire 20 ft admire and take a pic.

2 days steady work.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
141 Posts
OK I'm into this thread , as I'm a DIYer . To me your yard costs sound very reasonable. one thing that always helps me is a pre haul bottom job, but it sounds like you don't have a monthly diver ? If that's the case get a diver to do a pre clean . Paul has given you some good advice . I'm not exactly sure but it kind of sounds you just want to clean and not paint ? If that's the case you have lost me, I'm not understanding . If that's not the case paint prep is important . but for me all I do is a deep sand . Good luck !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,016 Posts
Those yard costs do seem reasonable. Do they have labor available or is it strictly DIY? In some cases, yards that get a job will haul and splash and store for nothing, or at least build it in. It's possible you save very little doing it yourself in the end.

If you have barnacles growing on your paint, it seems ready to be redone. I've done the dive, scrape, worry, watch speed decline, etc, thing. Now I put a top coat on every year and get nothing but slime.

If I were in your shoes, I think I would take it down to the barrier coat and put a good base back on, but that's certainly not mandatory. However, to paint over, you'll need to know what is on there now.

As for moving stands, most yards would prohibit, but maybe not a DIY. The general method I know is to put her on more than she needs, so that they can be removed one set at a time, painted, reinstalled and the next set removed.

The substantially easier method is to catch the pad sites when she's hanging in the slings to splash. Best is to be the first to splash tomorrow and have them pick you up at the end of the previous day to hang overnight. You may even get a couple of coats on that way.
 

·
I don't discuss my member
Joined
·
2,652 Posts
If the boat had a hard bottom paint previously then a pressure washing and scraping would be fine as it would bring out new copper to the surface.
Not sure why you assume pressure washing and scraping a hard anti fouling paint will make it "fine." If the paint is more than two or three years old, there will be little or no copper left to be brought to the surface.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for all the replies. I am currently searching out a bottom diver to do a pre-haul inspection and clean as best they can. Does anyone know what a good rate is for this type of service? I am also trying to get some quotes on a complete bottom job and weight that against doing it myself.

I am waiting on a reply from the previous owner as to what type of paint was last used so i can make sure I paint over it.
 

·
I don't discuss my member
Joined
·
2,652 Posts
I am currently searching out a bottom diver to do a pre-haul inspection and clean as best they can. Does anyone know what a good rate is for this type of service?
Can vary widely. Completely dependent upon the condition of the bottom and the state of the fouling.
 

·
Bombay Explorer 44
Joined
·
3,619 Posts
Thanks for all the replies. I am currently searching out a bottom diver to do a pre-haul inspection and clean as best they can. .
If you are paying the yard to pressure wash and scrape, why pay a diver to scrape a few days before?

When I was cruising on a shoestring and scraped my own bottom, I would do a real good job a few days before then tell the yard I did not need the pressure wash etc.

In your case skip the diver and get the yard to do it.
 

·
I don't discuss my member
Joined
·
2,652 Posts
If you are paying the yard to pressure wash and scrape, why pay a diver to scrape a few days before?
I don't know how it is in Florida where the OP is, but in California, boatyards are required to handle the fouling growth and anti fouling paint that are removed during pressure washing operations as hazardous waste. This means the owners of excessively fouled boat bottoms get a very steep surcharge for barrelling-up and shipping off the big pile of crud now lying under the travellift.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
59 Posts
Your yard's rates are extremely reasonable based on my experience (CA).

The only note that I would add, be sure to wear protective gear (mask,goggles, hooded suit) when sanding bottom paint. Disposable suits are available cheap.

Good luck.
 

·
no longer reading SailNet
Joined
·
2,309 Posts
I don't know how it is in Florida where the OP is, but in California, boatyards are required to handle the fouling growth and anti fouling paint that are removed during pressure washing operations as hazardous waste. This means the owners of excessively fouled boat bottoms get a very steep surcharge for barrelling-up and shipping off the big pile of crud now lying under the travellift.
But cleaning it in the water and leaving the fouling growth behind is considered legal? That seems crazy.

The rates in this thread are cheap. Power washing incures an $85 environmental fee in WA. In-water washing of boats using ablative paint is illegal. Copper will be illegal in 2017.
 

·
I don't discuss my member
Joined
·
2,652 Posts
But cleaning it in the water and leaving the fouling growth behind is considered legal? That seems crazy.
What can I say? It is California after all. But I suspect the same is true elsewhere. Boatyards fall under different and more restrictive regulations than do hull cleaners.
 

·
Senior Moment Member
Joined
·
13,290 Posts
Those prices are not reasonable, they are dirt cheap. You own a sailboat - suck it up. :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: T37Chef

·
Registered
Joined
·
24,016 Posts
Another random thought. If you do the work yourself, it's common that yards have environmental control requirements. A dust collecting sander is a minimum at our yard. Having to buy or rent one, plus the shop vac, can starting closing the gap to just paying to have it done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
If you have barnacles, then the antifoul is already wearing. The purpose of the antifoul is to keep growth off. It's actually not good to power wash the antifoul unless you plan to scrape and repaiint. If you are not planning on scraping and repainting, then power washing is only going to remove another layer of antifoul. Once your boat goes back in, growth will just happen again probably at a higher rate.

If I were you, I'd just make a decision what you want to do. If you want to scrape and repaint, have then power wash. Then have them do a complete haul out and put it on the hard. Once you are there, hire then to scrape and repaint for you. It'll be done the right way and it'll save you from having to make numerous haul outs over a period of a year. It will be more costly your first time but will save you some over the next year or two. And, most professionals can have it all done in a weekend. I personally sanded and painted my own and it took me 3 weekends. But, I saw the pro's do it in 2 days for same size boat. Do it the right way the first time and you wont be sorry. Hope that helps.
 

·
██▓▓▒▒░&
Joined
·
13,645 Posts
Zac-

If you check out Youtube for "bottom paint boat" you'll see a number of descriptions and options to consider.

Since you're in Jax and the water temperature down there is probably in the high 80's, I'd suggest you pick up a diving mask, find a relatively clean spot to drop anchor or tie up, and just take a look under the boat. A diving mask and waterproof flashlight (doesn't have to be expensive, and if it isn't waterproof, just rinse it well with fresh water afterwards) are good to have on any sailboat, in any case.

But as others have said, talk to the yard. Ask them about any issues with bottom paint, don't prompt them for whether they'll require you to spread a tarp and dispose of it, just ask if there's any issue with you cleaning it and painting it. Ask them about the options, like whether they can lift your boat at 5PM and not launch it until the morning, so you can paint the spots the pads covered and let them dry.

Even before that, try to pick a bottom paint (yeah, like picking a winning stock or pony) and see what drying/coating times and launch times it requires, because they vary.

The job itself isn't hard but unless you wear a shower cap you WILL get paint in your hair. And if you buy paint locally, you should have no problem buying an extra can and returning it, unopened, if you bought too much. Which is easier than worrying about buying too little and having to run out again. I suspect one gallon will do you, but each paint will also have recommendations on the can. Or if there's too much, you can always hold on to the rest, because that stuff only gets more expensive every year.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top