SailNet Community banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Everyone -

I'm fairly new here. I'm usually pretty self sufficient using the ole googlé and searching these forums, but I've finally been stumped.

I'm finally getting around to putting a new eye in my wire to rope halyard – it currently has a very poor flemish eye at the end of it and has been closed with electrical tape. I have no problem splicing a new flemish eye myself (or another splicing another eye if there's a recommendation), but I can't afford to buy a crimper for the steel sleeve, nor do I want to buy one for the 3 or 4 crimps I'll do in a lifetime.

My question is, would a couple wire rope grippers over the splice handle the loads of my mainsail and if I were to use the main halyard as a topping lift to hoist my 8HP outboard? Or is there another way to crimp - I don't have a vice unfortunately.

Thanks in advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I don't know what a flemished eye is , but if all you want to do is crimp a barrel ,Westmarine has a crimping tool they will let you barrow . My Westm. has a rigging bench set up with a crimper mounted to it .
Thanks for the reply. The only problem is that it's the wire at the end of my halyard, so I'd have to remove the whole halyard to take it in, which I could do, but don't want to do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
695 Posts
If you have not taken an halyard it is a out good opportunity. I take mine out every fall and wash them in Downy, smell really nice.

I just use some vinyl tape and attached about a 1/8" messenger line. Works fine unless you get a snag so pull carefully. Some sew theirs on but I don't consider it a big deal to fish in a new halyard if necessary.

Alternately you might consider going to an all rope Halyard, definitely a big improvement!

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,865 Posts
A Flemish eye is a crimped eye.

The proper way to join wire to rope is a splice.

Wire halyards are really of the past - all rope halyards are easier to handle and have less stretch than wire. I would look at changing to all rope.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
A Flemish eye is a crimped eye.

The proper way to join wire to rope is a splice.

Wire halyards are really of the past - all rope halyards are easier to handle and have less stretch than wire. I would look at changing to all rope.
I would love to go all rope, but I don't want to change my sheaves. They're all V's and I don't know that they'd take rope to well.

As for the reference, I was inquiring about the loop on the wire for my shackle versus joining the wire to rope, if that makes sense.

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If you have not taken an halyard it is a out good opportunity. I take mine out every fall and wash them in Downy, smell really nice.

I just use some vinyl tape and attached about a 1/8" messenger line. Works fine unless you get a snag so pull carefully. Some sew theirs on but I don't consider it a big deal to fish in a new halyard if necessary.

Alternately you might consider going to an all rope Halyard, definitely a big improvement!

Good luck.
Thanks! I definitely would like to. My spring project is going to be replacing halyards and sheaves. I've just finished the rebuild down below and working on topside now. Standing rigging has been updated and running is next.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Troublejr, I didn't catch the size an model of boat that you have. Most likely, a appropriately sized Amsteel halyard would fit your current sheaves - especially if you strip half the cover off of it. I learned that the Flemish eye was a splice in the cover only and was not a wire splice. Is your wire splice around a thimble and finished off with a swage?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,184 Posts
I don't know what a flemished eye is , but if all you want to do is crimp a barrel ,Westmarine has a crimping tool they will let you barrow . My Westm. has a rigging bench set up with a crimper mounted to it .
I used the crimper on the bench at a West Marine, and had the eye fail twice. When I mentioned this to them, they told me that their crimper is not for applications where strength is critical.

Watching the entire boomvang assembly form a graceful arc about 100ft into the air, then sink without trace, is not something I want to repeat. It could have seriously injured someone, on the way.

This MUST be done right. You need the correct crimper for the job, and you also need to study how to do the job properly and use the correct swage for the wire. I got it right the third time. Not ideal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Troublejr, I didn't catch the size an model of boat that you have. Most likely, a appropriately sized Amsteel halyard would fit your current sheaves - especially if you strip half the cover off of it. I learned that the Flemish eye was a splice in the cover only and was not a wire splice. Is your wire splice around a thimble and finished off with a swage?
Hi George - It's an Allied Chance 30-30. I may have the Flemish Eye name wrong. The wire splice is currently how you described, however instead of using a thimble and swage, it's just looped and spliced back into itself, held together by electric tape. This is all the previous owner. I'm hoping to do it properly with a thimble, and some type way to fasten in that won't require a crimper if possible.

Thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I used the crimper on the bench at a West Marine, and had the eye fail twice. When I mentioned this to them, they told me that their crimper is not for applications where strength is critical.

Watching the entire boomvang assembly form a graceful arc about 100ft into the air, then sink without trace, is not something I want to repeat. It could have seriously injured someone, on the way.

This MUST be done right. You need the correct crimper for the job, and you also need to study how to do the job properly and use the correct swage for the wire. I got it right the third time. Not ideal.
Yikes thanks for sharing this
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Troublejr, you are right on the ragged edge. Your original eye - did it have two swages or just one? The nice thing about using the thimble is the wire tail doesn't pull straight through the swage. I would always have a thimble as without it, the eye deforms under load acting just like stretch in the line.

MarkSF, man, you are pulling some loads on that vang! You weren't out last Wednesday by any chance? Where on your vang system did you have a swaged eye?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,033 Posts
A knot or splice is either done correctly, or it is hopelessly, dangerously wrong.

Liverpool Wire Rope Eye Splice Photo Primer

ADDITIONAL INFO:

Brion Toss is one of the best--

Complete Rigger's Apprentice


He also has instructional videos.

*******
Not Brion Toss, but could save your rig in an emergency. I would put a seizing at the throat and 2 or 3 down the tail, rather than the single wire wrap he shows -- tarred marling twine & paranoia are cheap insurance. :)
Quick Wire Rope Eye Splice

N.B. ^^^This^^^ is Capt Len's 'Molly Hogan', see post #15

" Molly Hogans or Flemish eyes are very useful and can be quite strong. I have used them for forming the eyes for gaff and boom jaw parrals. " --- Jamie White ('Clyderigged'), professional rigger

'Molly Hogan' discussion thread


*******

#include [ std-disclaimer ]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,348 Posts
I used the crimper on the bench at a West Marine, and had the eye fail twice. When I mentioned this to them, they told me that their crimper is not for applications where strength is critical.

Watching the entire boomvang assembly form a graceful arc about 100ft into the air, then sink without trace, is not something I want to repeat. It could have seriously injured someone, on the way.

This MUST be done right. You need the correct crimper for the job, and you also need to study how to do the job properly and use the correct swage for the wire. I got it right the third time. Not ideal.[/QUOTE
Sorry to hear about your boomvang Mark, and I'm really glad no one got hurt . I can't believe Westm. would say something like that , or actually I can . Westm. for me is just steps away , so I use them a lot . I have had some really bad info said to me by them , folks remember, some Westm. employees are knowledgeable , most are not and they are pushed by management to just sell you something . So all said if you are taking on a critical rigging job , drink lots of beer first .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,726 Posts
A sailor needs to know how to splice an eye. I assume the wire is small stuff and 7x19. A molly hogan on 1/2" and smaller is easy by hand. A liverpool takes some work Look it up and try on some spare stuff. Tight seize some twine back to nearly twice the eye. Unwind the end ,3 plus centre one way and the other 3 the other way. cross them over so they look like they belong there .carefully wrap the 3 around again (and again)as they lay back into the groove Cut the centre off just a bit long and tuck it back up the main line.Cut all 6 strands just so the same. Put hard eye into softeye and seize with soft SS wire.So it tightens on the hard eye and pulls the legs together covering the crotch and any jaggers. Takes only a few minutes and I'd trust this over a crimped piece of junk. Now a liverpool in 3/4" shroud laid wire takes some practice. Arrgh.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Troublejr, you are right on the ragged edge. Your original eye - did it have two swages or just one? The nice thing about using the thimble is the wire tail doesn't pull straight through the swage. I would always have a thimble as without it, the eye deforms under load acting just like stretch in the line.

MarkSF, man, you are pulling some loads on that vang! You weren't out last Wednesday by any chance? Where on your vang system did you have a swaged eye?
It actually had no swages on it. The previous owner used one gripper with electrical tape to hold it unfortunately.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
A knot or splice is either done correctly, or it is hopelessly, dangerously wrong.

Liverpool Wire Rope Eye Splice Photo Primer

ADDITIONAL INFO:

Brion Toss is one of the best--

Complete Rigger's Apprentice


He also has instructional videos.

*******
Not Brion Toss, but could save your rig in an emergency. I would put a seizing at the throat and 2 or 3 down the tail, rather than the single wire wrap he shows -- tarred marling twine & paranoia are cheap insurance. :)
Quick Wire Rope Eye Splice

N.B. ^^^This^^^ is Capt Len's 'Molly Hogan', see post #15

" Molly Hogans or Flemish eyes are very useful and can be quite strong. I have used them for forming the eyes for gaff and boom jaw parrals. " --- Jamie White ('Clyderigged'), professional rigger

'Molly Hogan' discussion thread


*******

#include [ std-disclaimer ]
This is all very helpful. Thank you very much!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,184 Posts
MarkSF, man, you are pulling some loads on that vang! You weren't out last Wednesday by any chance? Where on your vang system did you have a swaged eye?
Hi George, this was on my last boat, a Wayfarer daysailer. The vang was attached to the mast base with a 1ft length of wire with a swaged eye at each end. With hindsight, I should have just replaced it with some Dyneema.

The boom end had a key that engaged in a slot, hence the reason it was able to go into orbit when the swage failed.

Sea Otter has a Garhauer solid vang, which is VERY securely attached at both ends. No worries there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,106 Posts
Mark, I was thinking that must have been the first line in a cascading block system. I really like my Garhauer vang too. Pretty bullet proof but I do need to polish off the occasional surface rust. I don’t have to tell you about keeping the shackle pins torqued down tightly – I have taken to using small nylon wire ties as mousing just to make sure. I must have a million of them at home so I don’t mind replacing them each year.

Troublejr’s halyard wire is 7x19 flexible cable and not the 1x19 which you would need to do the aforementioned wire splices. The other problem with doing a splice in this application is it doubles the diameter of the wire (or line) making it stiff and difficult to make the bend over the sheave. This can result in a jamb at the sheave or restrainer so beware.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top