[kwaltersmi]

My boat (Irwin 28) came with a nice traditional symmetrical spinnaker. We never flew it this season, but it is high on our list for next season. Do we need a spinnaker sock to douse the sail, or it that merely a luxury? How difficult will it be to douse it without one?

 

[JohnRPollard]

Hi kwalt,

I think it would be a "nice to have," but not a necessity.

Since it's a conventional symmetric chute, it probably is not nearly as large as an asym would be for your boat. The socks are very popular with asym chutes, because asyms are generally much larger sails than conventional chutes.

If you want to avoid the expense of the sock, you can practice setting and dousing the chute first in light air, and then in moderate conditions, next season. If you find it's still a bear after a season of practice, then maybe a sock would be a good idea. But you may find that you can mange just fine without.

 

[ste27]

My boat (Irwin 28) came with a nice traditional symmetrical spinnaker. We never flew it this season, but it is high on our list for next season. Do we need a spinnaker sock to douse the sail, or it that merely a luxury? How difficult will it be to douse it without one?

Nope, no worries - you should be fine. Just drive deep and drop it behind the main. Easiest way is to have one person gathering the foot of the kite starting with the farthest corner to leeward, once they've got both clews in one hand someone else does a controlled dump on the halyard while the person with the foot stuffs the whole thing down the hatch or in the bag or however you choose to set it up. Little practice and you'll be able to drop it in 30kt no problem

 

[Faster]

I'd agree with JRP given the size of your boat. A symm spinnaker on a 28 footer should be totally manageable without a sock (which adds expense, weight, and complexity - esp when/if they get fouled)

We sail a 35 footer now, but as a frac rig the headsails are the size of an average 30 footer.

For a easy, unloaded takedown this is our standard procedure:

Sail fairly square downwind
Ease (gently) the pole to the forestay
Grab sheet as far up as you can (under the boom, standing in the companionway)
Release the guy completely
Pull the sheet til you have the clew in hand
Gather in the entire foot so both clews are in hand. By now the sail should be completely in the lee of the mainsail and quite relaxed.
Ease the halyard as the spinnaker is gathered -almost in a tube itself, pulled in under the boom and stuffed below.
Don't forget to secure the sheets/guys on deck before starting the engine (don't ask!)

In really light air you can try to put it directly into its turtle bag - in that case from the foredeck grab mid foot, gather the clews and have someone ease the halyard as you gather cloth and stuff in the bag, leaving the three corners accessible on top.

It's a rewarding sail that can make an otherwise boring day more interesting. Choose your times (not too much wind, but not too little either - that's just frustrating). Enjoy!

 

[kwaltersmi]

Thanks for the prompt replies, guys! Other than some sort of a sock, we've got all the gear we need (I think) to fly the chute. Based on what I've read, we'll likely go ahead withOUT a sock and see how we manage.

We've got a 2-3 month cruise planned for next summer, so I'd love to have the chute available for the many light air days I expect we'll encounter. Hopefully we'll be competent kite flyers by the end of the cruise!

 

[ste27]

Thanks for the prompt replies, guys! Other than some sort of a sock, we've got all the gear we need (I think) to fly the chute. Based on what I've read, we'll likely go ahead with a sock and see how we manage.

We've got a 2-3 month cruise planned for next summer, so I'd love to have the chute available for the many light air days I expect we'll encounter. Hopefully we'll be competent kite flyers by the end of the cruise!

Didn't everyone say no sock? Not to be rude but why ask if you weren't going to listen to the responses?

 

[Faster]

Didn't everyone say no sock? Not to be rude but why ask if you weren't going to listen to the responses?

Easy, ste27, I suspect he simply mis-typed...

 

[kwaltersmi]

Yup, just a typo. Should be edited now.

Based on the above responses, we'll likely go ahead WITHOUT a sock.

 

[ste27]

Sorry - Jumped the gun a bit there.

Definitely give a go for the year without a sock, I think you'll find you don't need one at all and having one would just be extra $ and weight aloft, etc etc

 

[bubb2]

Sock or no sock, that is question. I wear one just on the left foot. All bases covered.

 

[AdamLein]

I also use my chutes without a sock, though so far only in winds up to ten knots or so. A couple points I would add to Faster's procedure:

1) When "releasing the guy completely" release it from the pole end by opening the shackle.

2) After coming up to a broad reach, hoist the jib behind the spinnaker. This takes all the air out of the chute.

 

[Faster]

I also use my chutes without a sock, though so far only in winds up to ten knots or so. A couple points I would add to Faster's procedure:

1) When "releasing the guy completely" release it from the pole end by opening the shackle.

2) After coming up to a broad reach, hoist the jib behind the spinnaker. This takes all the air out of the chute.

Adam..

Releasing the guy by opening the shackle requires someone on the foredeck, in a shorthanded situation that's not always easy - simply easing the guy and letting it run through can be all done from the cockpit. Also on some boats the shackle is not an easy reach. However, if you can release the shackle that does eliminate possible tangles and fouling of the guy as it needs to run through the pole end.

If you head DOWN to broad reach or deeper then the jib is not required to blanket the sail, and not hoisting it at that point keeps things simpler.

Of course, if your racing with crew, then I'd agree with your points.

 

[blt2ski]

For the AS on my 30'r I use a sock when it is the wife and I. Much easier than raising alone etc. When racing we do not use a sock.

If you find with two of you, without does not always work right, I will say, a sock is nice to use short handed. Granted I am using an asymetric vs a symetric. but I will assume the raising and lowering are more similar than not.

Marty

 

[bubb2]

I single hand alot. I can't see any reason not to use a sock. But I am a cruiser. I leave the inside out sail changes to the racers.

 

[ste27]

I've never seen a sock on a sym and I'm starting to wonder about sock/forestay interaction and what happens when you gybe.

Anyway, if you always douse to leeward no need to worry about getting rid of the pole first.

A boat that size may be able to get away with just using one set of lines and using the lazy sheet as a guy, much simpler and given that the owner sounds a little apprehensive about the idea in the first place, I doubt they'll have it up in massive winds with the need for seperate sheets and guys. If that's the case, skip the shackles and tie the sheets on, it's lighter and it'll help with flying the thing in light air

 

[Faster]

.....A boat that size may be able to get away with just using one set of lines and using the lazy sheet as a guy, much simpler and given that the owner sounds a little apprehensive about the idea in the first place, I doubt they'll have it up in massive winds with the need for seperate sheets and guys. If that's the case, skip the shackles and tie the sheets on, it's lighter and it'll help with flying the thing in light air

Agreed,... the only reason to go with double sheets and guys is in heavier conditions where they might aid in gybing - and of course with a dip-pole setup. With end-for-end gybing, double sheets and guys really only works if you have two poles... also spinn sheets tend to be pretty long... and costly.

The added weight and complexity of the lazy lines is an unnecessary complication, esp for cruisers flying a kite with minimal crew.

 

[blt2ski]

I've seen a few folks use socks with sym spins, just as you would with an AS. Yes there are some issues, extra weight aloft, a couple of more lines. But dousing, "usually" you just pull the sock down. And if the sock is screwed up or otherwise, then you dowse with out. And you better know how! For two people, where in my case. my spouse does some of the sailing, ie controls the tiller, maybe grabs a line when setting a sail, the sock is nice. Even if both are more active, with two, a sock is nice. just as I do not use my 155 with two, I use a 135 genoa, easier to tack etc.

Play with it. If I had a symetric, i would probably use a sock for double handing too.

marty

 

[Jeff_H]

I agree with Adam. I single-hand a whole lot under spinnaker on my 38 footer and into winds approaching the high teens. Blowing the guy shackle takes all the fight out of the chute, leaving the sail flagging harmlessly. My typical drop is to put the boat on autopilot, walk forward and blow the shackle, bear down a bit, gather the foot of the chute under the boom and drag the chute down the back of the mainsail and into the companionway.

I actually consider socks dangerous for short-handing since the worst case is the one where you have a wrap in the chute and the sock stuck Half way up and half way down eliminating all other options.

Jeff

 

[T37SOLARE]

gather the foot of the chute under the boom and drag the chute down the back of the mainsail and into the companionway.

I've been trying to figure out how I could handle my symmetrical spin solo or with just the wife and myself, this makes much more sense than going down the fordeck hatch.

Thanks Jeff!

 

[AdamLein]

Releasing the guy by opening the shackle requires someone on the foredeck, in a shorthanded situation that's not always easy - simply easing the guy and letting it run through can be all done from the cockpit.

Interesting... it never occurred to me to try that. However there was one occasion when we lost control of the guy and the chute started to sort of "get away" from the boat, which made it really hard to control as the chute was trying to pull the boat in a circle. I like the idea that one corner of the chute will be totally disconnected, so we've always lowered the pole till it was within reach and done the quick-release.

On the other hand, the idea of being able to do it all from the cockpit is really appealing... maybe next time we have light winds (like next June or something) I'll give that suggestion a try.

Of course, if your racing with crew, then I'd agree with your points.

Indeed, I learned all I know about spinnaker handling from racing articles and books, even though I almost never race myself. It didn't occur to me that the procedure I had read was not preferred by cruisers, so that's what we've been drilling for the past couple of seasons, even when double-handed. Haven't tried it single-handed but your suggestion makes it sound a lot easier if the wind is light (and I don't have a tiller pilot installed).