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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants!

The article doesn't make the circumstances very clear. I take it the migrants were armed, but it doesn't say so. What I hate about all media these days (liberal and conservative) is they only seem to want to make their point.

It's an interesting issue. Imagine being faced with a makeshift raft between Cuba and FL. Clearly it's occupants are at risk. You might be inclined to take them aboard, but then what. I'm sure I'd hail the Coast Guard, who would undoubtedly respond. However, since they never made it to shore, I don't believe they can "take advantage" of the asylum rules. Rules, btw, that should not be eliminated in the US, but are in desperate need of amendment. Those and the birth rite citizenship laws were written for extremely different purposes and are being flatly gamed right now.

In any case, if the occupants of the raft were astute enough, they may not want your help.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants!

It's an interesting issue. Imagine being faced with a makeshift raft between Cuba and FL. Clearly it's occupants are at risk. You might be inclined to take them aboard, but then what. I'm sure I'd hail the Coast Guard, who would undoubtedly respond.
What makes you think you would be allowed to radio the coast guard?

On this sinking raft is 30 people including 10 babies and children under 10 some of which are in the water hanging onto the over crowded raft. You see at least 1 dead body floating in the water. On the raft are at least 5 women in high distress, and at least 10 men distressed and who's only thought is to save the lives of their families.
The adults know if they are returned to the previous country they will be shot.
To kill you and your wife and crew so they can get to asylum safely means nothing to them.

What do you do?

Take them on board where you risk your life?
Ring the Coast Guard/Navy? They say you are in International Waters and you are not to bring them into their country.

What do you do?
 

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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants!

That's a really difficult call.

It's easy to sit here and say I wouldn't take them on board, but when faced with watching a horrific situation unfold everything changes. Even if one is truly powerless to help, the emotional urge to do something can be overwhelming and lead to bad decisions.

I really don't know what I'd do.
 

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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants!

There are various systemic solutions to prevent this problem from arising in the first place.

But a discussion of those various options wojld likely not be productive in an online forum.

And not welcomed by the owners of the platform.

But let's just say, the ideas expressed by the title and in the "news item" linked to

I find pretty reprehensible.

A key question - would you risk your life to save that of others?

And should your perception of their ethnic origin or religion be a factor in your answer?
 

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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants!

John,

Whether it “should” or not aside, the fact is it does. That kind of thinking is deeply programmed into our selves through our long evolutionary history. Like how a hawk silhouette will scare a chicken. It pops up in the best meaning people as in “wack a mole.” We have to determine how to deal with it on an institutional basis but understand that on a personal basis it is a very human reaction.
 

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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants!

In the struggle of life and death, choosing your own life over that of others, is a natural choice. I would radio their position to authorities and maybe waited at safe distance for them to show up. Desperate people do very desperate things. A drowning man will take you down, it’s an instinct.
 

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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants!

That kind of thinking is deeply programmed into our selves through our long evolutionary history.

a very human reaction.
It is also human nature to murder a man because we covet his wife.

Our species' progress has always been a battle against our more primitive instincts.

That said, the perception of ideas of "tribes" and "races" having different values of human life is to me a socially taught construct, not genetic.
 

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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants!

It is also human nature to murder a man because we covet his wife.

Our species' progress has always been a battle against our more primitive instincts.

That said, the perception of ideas of "tribes" and "races" having different values of human life is to me a socially taught construct, not genetic.
The foundational religious text of the West clearly places a different value on members of one's tribe vs outsiders. Do you consider it to be socially taught constructs or reflecting human nature?

Do you value your own life, or that of your family, above those of strangers who may end up taking it?
 

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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants!

To be sure they're illegal do you have to check their passports first? Or can you tell by just how they look?:captain:
 

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Re: Do not pick up illegal migrants!

john-
Bear in mind that Key West is only one of many places that exists because wreckers intentionally lit false lights, to lure merchant ships onto the rocks. Death and wreckage being expected and intentional.
Piracy, fake distress signals, scams are not limited to land or sea. By all means be merciful--but remember there *are* tigers in the night.
The problem is that the logical solution to the "refugee crisis" is for some powerful players to...Well, step in, declare war, throw the evildoers out, and impose civilization of some sort. What Kipling called "the white man's burden".
Oh yeah, that phrase goes over well these days. So, how do you address the root problem without getting crucified? Or do you just charter free flights for anyone who wants to come in? That's got some problems too...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Poops, I didn't mean the thread to be proactive re the Cuba situation.

So I changed to title to say 'the Med'. There the situation is quite abnormal and a humanitarian disaster from the Syrian war and militancy in North Africa.

On a trip across the Atlantic in 2010 from the Caranry Islands to the Caribbean I snuck into the skippers briefing of a large rally heading west. There was a stark warning to watch for boats between Africa and the Cape Verde Islands.

In the Med itself the distance between the north African coast and Italy is quite short and an attractive option for some.
Also there's been stories of traffickers taking peoples money and then when offshore jumping into another boat leaving the unfortunates in non seaworthy boats without food, water of means of navigation.

Standing off and contacting the 'authorities' sounds like the method that I would have to do.

Its sad this is what we have come to.

Mark
 
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