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Hey Smack, I'm kind of on the fence with this, or a least looking at the fence. I have a Raymarine chartplotter that is acting up a bit, but like anything that comes with $1000 price tag...it's hard to let go.

Two questions involving the touch screen:

1: What do you do if you are wearing gloves?
2: if the protective cover gets wet, does the touch screen still work?

Thanks,
Chris
Nine...we have two identical iPad 2s. One I bought several years ago and kept after I upgraded and the other I recently purchased off eBay for around $200 as a backup. So, the cost is definitely attractive. Maybe you hang on to your Raymarine for now, then try the iPad route if you're interested by starting off with an older cheaper iPad (make sure it's cell/data enabled to get the GPS). If nothing else, like these guys have said, it's a great low-cost/high-capability backup for your current Raymarine. Then if the Raymarine goes, you can make your decision on what's next.

As to your questions...

1. For kicks I just tried it with a couple of different gloves - a winter-type glove and a latex glove. It did work fine with the latex glove - but did not work at all with the winter glove. So I guess it depends. Why is that? No idea. So, if you're wearing heavier gloves, I guess you take the glove off, position things the way you want them, and put the glove back on.

2. We encountered several heavy squalls and thunderstorms while offshore on our trip. So lots of rain and the iPad definitely got wet. If the screen is really wet and your hands are really wet, the scroll/pan/pinch-zoom features don't work well. But simply wiping things off with a paper towel fixes this. And it was only an issue in the heaviest of conditions we faced.

I think the real question is how much you have the need to continually pan and zoom while underway? I mostly found myself needing to swipe for the instrument bar at the top of the screen and to touch an AIS target for info. The touch features work fine when wet and iNavX also has buttons for zooming (instead of having to use the pinch-zoom) so you can still use it as normal. And since, like other plotters, you can set the screen to always center on your position (north up or heads up), zoom is what you'll use most anyway. I mostly panned when planning the route, not nearly as much while underway.

So, I just didn't run into any real problems with this. It's certainly there as a potential irritant, but is easily addressed and rarely a problem in the first place unless you're in a continually wet, open environment.

Also, keep in mind that our current LifeProof Nuud case has no protective cover over the screen (unlike the Lifedge case we used to use which I didn't like).

Hope that helps.
 

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Gothca, thanks.

Data costs over cell can be brutal up here, so I'll need to check that. Primary use would be for night sailing, so I don't share the others fears, (unfounded or not). The user friendly interface outweighs so many other, (perceived?) issues.

I wonder if the soft pens would work in wet conditions?
 

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Gothca, thanks.

Data costs over cell can be brutal up here, so I'll need to check that. Primary use would be for night sailing, so I don't share the others fears, (unfounded or not). The user friendly interface outweighs so many other, (perceived?) issues.

I wonder if the soft pens would work in wet conditions?
You don't use the data. We have a Verizon sim card that came with the used iPad but no service/account whatsoever - so no charges ever. You only need the cell/data capability with the iPad to get true integrated GPS (the WiFi only versions do not have true GPS).

The WiFi works perfectly fine for all your data needs while in-range and the GPS is very accurate from everything I've seen.

As for the pen, I've heard of people using them. I've not.
 

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You only need the cell/data capability with the iPad to get true integrated GPS (the WiFi only versions do not have true GPS).


As for the pen, I've heard of people using them. I've not.
Seriously, jesus! Bloody hell.

You know there is a cool "yachty" factor to having a chartplotter. I must admit to succumbing to it. But the thing is pain.

As for the pen, my mom, (90 years old) uses one because the screen doesn't always sense her old skin. Not that she has used one in the rain, lol...but they do work well. And cost about a buck. Oddly enough, my marina gives them to members.
 

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Since we seem to be engaged in some degree of "mine is bigger than yours" I'll point out that as a delivery skipper I see a lot of different boats, back to back, with all kinds of ideas by owners about what the "right" or "best" answer is. No matter how long you spend going over someone else's boat there are surprises underway. Then I end up using my phone, including 1,000 miles on just one trip from the Chesapeake to Tortola. Between my gear and boat gear I have many thousands of miles with various tablets, phones, and other devices.

I also sell, install, and repair communications equipment (satellite, HF/SSB, VHF, WiFi, cellular, two tin cans and a string) which regularly involves me with other electronics integration. I spend a lot of time helping people who don't have an open checkbook to rip everything out and start over and need to get three flavors of SeaTalk and two flavors of NMEA to talk to one another.

Add that to thirty years in mission critical and life safety systems for national security and intelligence and I think I have something to bring to the party.

I used to think the iPad/Tablet thing was a bad idea, but as things have evolved, the apps are more capable and stable.
I think there are two issues here: capability and stability. You picked good, meaningful words.

Capability:

I think glare is a second order issue. Contrast and brightness are the key factors in use. Dedicated multi-function displays (MFDs aka chartplotters) are better, which is why they are easier to read in bright light. Ease of integration with other systems without injecting additional single points of failure is another. Tablets and other devices can be integrated but the resulting system is more fragile.

Stability:

This is a key factor we haven't talked about. Dedicated MFDs get rigorously tested by the manufacturer before each firmware/software upgrade is released. That doesn't mean they are perfect (note the Raymarine classic E series blackout problem of 10ish years ago, long since resolved). Tablets and other devices are more problematic. Our application is simply not on the radar screen of Apple, Google, or Microsoft. Sometimes updates are neutral. Sometimes they come with real benefits (like iOS 7 which allowed the GPS to stay on in airplane mode). Others can be debilitating. iOS 9, now nearly a year old (I just upgraded to 9.3.4), broke the ability to synchronize Microsoft Outlook Notes with iOS Notes. Apple doesn't care. Compare the size of the user base for Microsoft Office to the size of the user base for navigation applications and it is pretty clear that if something breaks Apple won't even be bothered to laugh at us. Microsoft has displayed similar disdain toward specialized applications in which drivers have been broken in Windows 10.

my experience the more coders, the more bugs.
I agree. Add that the more complexity the more bugs.

I still think if you buy an MFD and the sensor array (radar, fluxgate, sounder, masthead, etc) from a single vendor and a single generation of stuff, you stand a better chance that the vendor has actually debugged the thing and it works. Since the tablet vendors aren't producing all the pieces, there is addition risk when you integrate this stuff.
Absolutely agree. Incidentally so does Garmin. That's why they worked so hard to expand their product line to include functions they long did not. Today you can get complete systems from both Raymarine and Garmin. I've done a lot of integration across brands and generations (and can't say enough good things about the conversion boxes from Actisense and Brookhouse) and you can, but again you end up with a more fragile system.

Dave, my enclosure is all clear vinyl, custom made in the Florida Keys, has reinforced openings for the jib and main sheets, very durable yet strong and lightweight
Hi Gary. There is no question that clear air is better than glass which is better than hard plastics which is better than flexible plastics. The more you have to look through the more time you spend clearing salt. Even when perfectly clean the clear air/glass/hard plastic/flexible plastic spectrum exists. That isn't to say you can't see; it says you are accepting a compromise with other benefits.

The last point is directly relevant to the discussion of the merits of tablets compared to MFDs. I don't think anyone has said tablets et al aren't functional. I would say MFDs are unquestionably better but apparently some participants are questioning that conclusion. I think the question should be "are MFDs enough better than tablet-based expedients to be worth the additional cost?" The easy answer for me is yes for offshore and coastal cruising. For inshore, ICW, and daysailing perhaps not although definitely still better. It all comes down to value for money which is a personal choice.

Gary - I forgot you have a gas boat. Remember however that once the water temperature gets below 40F your heat pump won't be effective.

I'm kind of on the fence with this, or a least looking at the fence. I have a Raymarine chartplotter that is acting up a bit, but like anything that comes with $1000 price tag...it's hard to let go.
Fingerless gloves work fine. *grin*

Put your tablet in a waterproof case and the screen gets more finicky.

They work by measuring capacitance (an electrical thing) to your finger. That's why they don't work well when wet, with extremely dry skin, and with highly moisturized skin.

If you ever sail in sporty conditions I am not a fan of touch-only interfaces. It's just too hard to reliably get your finger(s) exactly where you intend. What works fine in your armchair does not work so well on the water when the wind and sea kick up.
 

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I think your problem here is centered on this...

Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
...they may not work for everyone as you claim it has for you...

...not universally translatable to everyone...
Yes, I think you are now reading what I wrote. Here was what got us started....

You posted.........

We have the standard iPad2 in a LifeProof case and glare wasn't a problem at all.
To which I offered this input to all the other readers and didn't actually direct it at you.

Take with great skepticism anyone that says glare isn't a problem at all on a tablet. If they're not simply fibbing, it's undoubtedly unique to their setup or experience.
You said it isn't a problem at all and I wanted to be sure others realized that may not be true for them, for all the reasons we've discussed. You've acquiesced to my original point now. At all, meant to apply only to your setup.

I suspect you couldn't read past the insinuation that you were fibbing. By that I meant that people have a propensity to defend the choices they've already made, by downplaying deficiencies.

And, yes, when I'm steering, I'm usually at the helm.
How long were the legs of your trip or your individual watches? That sound excruciating. With a bimini, how do you monitor sail trim there? Unless I'm hiding under the dodger from serious rain or spray, I'm usually hiked up on the windward side and reach over for the wheel. If its a chilly wind, I will move down to leeward, if I have someone to keep watch on windward from under the dodger.

But as you can see, my son isn't tall enough to be "the shade"
He also looks barely tall enough to see over it, but I see he's motoring on what appears to be the ICW, from your posts. Was a good part of your journey motoring on the ICW? Maybe that's where we're disconnected. Boat is not healed, no need to see the sails, etc. I would see why one would stand directly in front of their plotter, watching every move. Changes plotter dynamics dramatically.

But let's just say for the sake of argument that glare at a specific angle is a problem ...........

......Easy - you just slip the iPad out of it's RamMount on the NavPod and take it where ever you want and tilt it to whatever angle you want.
Sure, but that introduces another deficiency as well. It's now more easily damaged or dropped than a CP. BTW, the best set up is on a mounted swivel that will turn slightly toward each side.

Heck, you can even take it to the pointy end - or down to the head if you'd like. It's completely mobile.
I do this all the time. If I'm below, my iPhone has the nav app running, so I can monitor the helmsperson. I don't often tell them I'm doing so. :) Like I've said, I'm a big fan of the iDevices, read the rest if the my initial post I linked above, where I detailed many of the reasons.

Look, you are obviously not a candidate for this approach and are working very hard to convince yourself you're justified in your thinking. And that's fine. You should stick to what you like.
As should you, but you put a lot of energy into finding links, pasting photos and researching the web, usually throwing in a few inflammatory names or comments, when someone has a different opinion or experience.

Good luck with your iPad and your cruise.
 

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He also looks barely tall enough to see over it, but I see he's motoring on what appears to be the ICW, from your posts.
I don't see the picture. If your description is accurate that is part of my dislike of the ICW. Boat drivers sit behind a pedestal-mounted Christmas tree, glued to the magenta line, eyes pinned to the electronics. VHF is off or ignored. *sigh*

It's safer in the ocean.
 

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I've not read through all the above but will offer my experience
And thoughts.

We are in out 33'er in Madeleine Islands Quebec having travels from Delaware up the Hudson and Erie to here.

We have.
1-Old Standard Horizion CP150 with serverall CMAP charts and a spare (Ebay) plotter.
2-iPad and iPhone 6 with both iNavx (raster) and charts and tides (vector and asctive captain) charts. Phone in a Nuud case.
3-laptop with XP/Fugawi and Ubuntu/Navigatrix

CP 150 screen is just too small to keep you situational orientIon especially when entering unfamiliar harbors where the detail insert is very small. The iPad/phone (ipp) are valuable for orientation and for planning. I could and have navigated by them alone. I've navigated by the plotter alone too. The combination is sweet.

Ipp allows me to carry both raster and vector charts. I often consult raster charts just to make sure the damn decluttering of the vector apps is not obscuring something. Also, just l,having the two different presentations keeps me better informed.

The laptop has a large collection of Canadian maritime charts, not cheap, and OPENCPN works well. Some of those charts are not readily available elsewhere.

So what I use is the plotter, with the ipp as a secondary reference and planning guide. Planning is much easier on the ipp or laptop.

Also I take the ipp and laptop to the big boat when we move back to that. That has an old Raymarine plotter and a spare.

IMHO old plotters are fine, buy spares on eBay to keep 'em going. Ipps are great adjuncts that make your life more pleasant. Drag it into the bunk on a rainy day and plan your next cruise! And they will get you home if the plotter quits, had that happen twice, sucks. Save your bucks for something important, like better beer.

Obviously just my opinion and solution which has evolved over the years. I hope there is something of value in this post.
 

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Paper charts or chartbooks are perfectly visible in bright sunlight, can be mounted where you need them for the particular use--maybe right in front of you for the harbor approach or down below on the chart table when offshore. The larger "screen" on the paper chart gives you superior situational awareness due to being able to use a decent scale while also seeing a large area, without having to zoom and scroll. Peering into a tablet or phone at a puny chart section is just miserable in comparison. Plus, I like writing quick notes on the charts in pen for instant storage and later recall and use. I had a bit of a chuckle one morning on the ICW when a panicked voice came on the radio asking for navigational help because his plotter wasn't working and he had no idea where he was. Apparently it stopped functioning for some reason and it was the only thing recording where he was in a serpentine part of Georgia. It is really easy to lose track of the big picture when your head is buried in a plotter showing a tiny area. I know I won't convince anyone, but you don't "need" a chart plotter or an iPad.
 

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Anyone been sailing recently. Weather here has been outstanding....in fact I think I'll head for the boat!
You have that right, capecodda. The sailing this season has been phenomenal! We've had such a mix of sails and conditions. Very challenging and rewarding.



Seems even when our abundance (this season) of thundershowers come through, they're welcome as they cool things down, leave quickly and bring on a different wind direction.

 

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The four,
Chart books are not available for everywhere (Canada), big paper charts can be a bear to manage in The cockpit. Raster charts allow you to have the equivalent of paper charts in a more manageable format. No, you don't NEED a plotter of any kind. They do have advantages.

Different answers for different folks, different cruising grounds and needs.

BTW, running down the ICW I have the Wife get out the chart book and follow our progress. It helps her stAy oriented and is an instant reference should something fail.
 

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I agree with Hypeers approach
We always have the paper out
The new electronic is a wonderfully aid
But dependence on it needs to be managed
Peoples head needs to not be buried behind a screen. People need to know how to navigate without the electronics

However there are some clear advantages to real time accuracy as well as the ability to zoom in to spots. Quicker computation of distance and also portability
 

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Since we seem to be engaged in some degree of "mine is bigger than yours" I'll point out that as a delivery skipper I see a lot of different boats, back to back, with all kinds of ideas by owners about what the "right" or "best" answer is. No matter how long you spend going over someone else's boat there are surprises underway. Then I end up using my phone, including 1,000 miles on just one trip from the Chesapeake to Tortola. Between my gear and boat gear I have many thousands of miles with various tablets, phones, and other devices.

I also sell, install, and repair communications equipment (satellite, HF/SSB, VHF, WiFi, cellular, two tin cans and a string) which regularly involves me with other electronics integration. I spend a lot of time helping people who don't have an open checkbook to rip everything out and start over and need to get three flavors of SeaTalk and two flavors of NMEA to talk to one another.

Add that to thirty years in mission critical and life safety systems for national security and intelligence and I think I have something to bring to the party.
With your experience and background, you absolutely bring something to the party Ausp. That's what I said above.

You must be referring to Minnewaska who started the "mine is bigger than yours" thing. It makes no sense to me either. But don't worry, I trust your word on these matters (for the most part) more than his even if he has more miles.

In the mean time, you ought to try 1K miles with only the iPad as your chartplotter. I think I'm the only one here who's done it. Then come back and let's talk specifics. I'd be interested in your feedback.

I think there are two issues here: capability and stability. You picked good, meaningful words.

Capability:

I think glare is a second order issue. Contrast and brightness are the key factors in use. Dedicated multi-function displays (MFDs aka chartplotters) are better, which is why they are easier to read in bright light. Ease of integration with other systems without injecting additional single points of failure is another. Tablets and other devices can be integrated but the resulting system is more fragile.

Stability:

This is a key factor we haven't talked about. Dedicated MFDs get rigorously tested by the manufacturer before each firmware/software upgrade is released. That doesn't mean they are perfect (note the Raymarine classic E series blackout problem of 10ish years ago, long since resolved). Tablets and other devices are more problematic. Our application is simply not on the radar screen of Apple, Google, or Microsoft. Sometimes updates are neutral. Sometimes they come with real benefits (like iOS 7 which allowed the GPS to stay on in airplane mode). Others can be debilitating. iOS 9, now nearly a year old (I just upgraded to 9.3.4), broke the ability to synchronize Microsoft Outlook Notes with iOS Notes. Apple doesn't care. Compare the size of the user base for Microsoft Office to the size of the user base for navigation applications and it is pretty clear that if something breaks Apple won't even be bothered to laugh at us. Microsoft has displayed similar disdain toward specialized applications in which drivers have been broken in Windows 10.
On the capability thing, you're right about brightness being more an issue than glare. As I've shown above, MFDs like the Garmin touch-screen are just as susceptible to glare. It's the brightness that counts. And you're also right that iPad brightness is likely not as bright as many MFDs. But I can say from a lot of first-hand experience that it's wasn't an issue at all on our trip.

On the stability thing, that's quite a stretch in regards to this particular conversation. I've had to re-start traditional MFDs (and other traditional instruments like Raymarine that were glitching) while offshore. So I don't think this is a valid argument. In any case, I can report that our iPad chartplotter solution has been extremely stable for the almost 3 years we've used it - even 24 hours a day for days on end.


Absolutely agree. Incidentally so does Garmin. That's why they worked so hard to expand their product line to include functions they long did not. Today you can get complete systems from both Raymarine and Garmin. I've done a lot of integration across brands and generations (and can't say enough good things about the conversion boxes from Actisense and Brookhouse) and you can, but again you end up with a more fragile system.

....

I spend a lot of time helping people who don't have an open checkbook to rip everything out and start over and need to get three flavors of SeaTalk and two flavors of NMEA to talk to one another.
Your two quotes above conflict. Sure, anyone can rip out their entire system and replace it with complete systems from Raymarine or Garmin - but is that the best way to go? Maybe - maybe not.

It certainly wasn't for us...especially when the iPad/iMux option was available to us.

As for fragility, what does that mean exactly? In theoretical terms - you're right, it probably has a few more vulnerabilities than a complete, integrated system. In practical terms, however, I've just not seen it. At least to the point where it makes the complete system you mention a better alternative. As I mentioned above, yes, we do get intermittent drop of the WiFi in areas with a lot of interference. But still, I don't think that it's significant enough in any way to warrant ripping out our system and starting over.

BUT - the thing you keep missing is that the fragility comes in the COUPLING of the iPad chartplotter with other instruments/systems. The iPad itself as a chartplotter doesn't have these same vulnerabilities. As I said above, if I lose the connection to the iMux, I still have all my SeaTalk instruments right in front of me. And even though I also lose my AIS targets overlay, I still have all that same AIS information via my Standard Horizon RAM mic. So, I've lost nothing except convenience of having it all at the helm. All the chartplotting info is still right there on the iPad.

Furthermore, I can argue that my iPad solution is far more robust than the traditional MFD system. For example, what happens if the electrical system in the boat goes down due to saltwater intrusion or some other major malfunction? Your MFD and all its instrumentation goes with it. The iPad chartplotter is still going strong. And with the solar charging we have - it can go strong indefinitely, completely independent of the boat's power system. In this scenario and others like it, the MFD is far more vulnerable and limited than the iPad.

So, remember, the system is only as fragile as you make it...as we hope Minnewaska will learn.

Hi Gary. There is no question that clear air is better than glass which is better than hard plastics which is better than flexible plastics. The more you have to look through the more time you spend clearing salt. Even when perfectly clean the clear air/glass/hard plastic/flexible plastic spectrum exists. That isn't to say you can't see; it says you are accepting a compromise with other benefits.
Compromise with other benefits - like your dodger?

The last point is directly relevant to the discussion of the merits of tablets compared to MFDs. I don't think anyone has said tablets et al aren't functional. I would say MFDs are unquestionably better but apparently some participants are questioning that conclusion. I think the question should be "are MFDs enough better than tablet-based expedients to be worth the additional cost?" The easy answer for me is yes for offshore and coastal cruising. For inshore, ICW, and daysailing perhaps not although definitely still better. It all comes down to value for money which is a personal choice.
I obviously don't agree with this, but I think it's pretty well-stated. It's a personal choice.

They work by measuring capacitance (an electrical thing) to your finger. That's why they don't work well when wet, with extremely dry skin, and with highly moisturized skin.

If you ever sail in sporty conditions I am not a fan of touch-only interfaces. It's just too hard to reliably get your finger(s) exactly where you intend. What works fine in your armchair does not work so well on the water when the wind and sea kick up.
Cool. Thanks for the technical explanation behind it. And I agree that in sporty conditions, it's much better to have another solution than the swipe/pinch. As I said above, iNavX provides buttons for zooming so that you don't have to pinch. Those have worked well in sporty conditions offshore. A quick wipe with a paper towel also works to give you full function...unless you're underwater.

Yes, I think you are now reading what I wrote. Here was what got us started....

You posted.........

You said it isn't a problem at all and I wanted to be sure others realized that may not be true for them, for all the reasons we've discussed. You've acquiesced to my original point now. At all, meant to apply only to your setup.
Oh I see. What I meant to say is this:

We have the standard iPad2 in a LifeProof case and glare wasn't a problem at all.

And I mean that - just as stated. I think most people are smart enough to figure it out.

How long were the legs of your trip or your individual watches? That sound excruciating.
It wasn't excruciating at all.

Most legs in the ICW were between roughly 40 and 80 miles (as measured by rough waypoints - usually more than that in reality due to the various bends). Offshore legs after Pensacola were between roughly 50 and 240 miles.

I tried to keep the legs as short as possible for the boys' sake. I personally would have rather done the whole run offshore in the Gulf, but that wasn't the smart thing to do, due to the time of year and their age and experience level.

I'm surprise you think that sounds excruciating. Wait, is this more of the "mine is bigger than yours" thing?

With a bimini, how do you monitor sail trim there?
Well as other cruising sailors have mentioned here, unless you're racing, you usually don't continually monitor sail trim...especially if the wind is consistent.

But, when I do want/need to check the sails/telltales, I just lean forward and do so. Or I ask one of the boys to do it. It's really not hard.

He also looks barely tall enough to see over it, but I see he's motoring on what appears to be the ICW, from your posts. Was a good part of your journey motoring on the ICW? Maybe that's where we're disconnected. Boat is not healed, no need to see the sails, etc. I would see why one would stand directly in front of their plotter, watching every move. Changes plotter dynamics dramatically.
As you always do on long trips, we motored and we sailed. Due to the time of year and the direction we were headed we motored far more than I ever wanted to. But glare was still not a problem at all - even under sail.

Sure, but that introduces another deficiency as well. It's now more easily damaged or dropped than a CP. BTW, the best set up is on a mounted swivel that will turn slightly toward each side.
That's my point, there are all kinds of problems you can dream up. But there are also solutions for virtually all of those problems. You want a swivel but you can't fathom a shading device for the iPad because you refuse to have a bimini? It just takes some imagination to solve problems Minnewaska. And it seems you have at least some of that.

As should you, but you put a lot of energy into finding links, pasting photos and researching the web, usually throwing in a few inflammatory names or comments, when someone has a different opinion or experience.
Well, actually I usually only throw shade toward those who only throw out strange hypotheticals, accusations, things that are inaccurate/untrue, dogma, etc. - but can't back it up with actual first-hand experience or facts. There's a lot of that on forums.

Good luck with your iPad and your cruise.
Thanks. We just returned from our month-long cruise, leaving the boat in Florida. It was the best trip of my life and I think it will provide great memories for the boys for the rest of theirs. Bahamas next season.

I don't see the picture. If your description is accurate that is part of my dislike of the ICW. Boat drivers sit behind a pedestal-mounted Christmas tree, glued to the magenta line, eyes pinned to the electronics. VHF is off or ignored. *sigh*

It's safer in the ocean.
I totally agree with you there Ausp. I FAR prefer the ocean to the ICW. I think offshore is not only safer (for the most part), but actually easier than the ICW because you don't have to continually hand-steer, communicate, and navigate every second of a 12-hour day. And you can sail MUCH more out there! But my sons did a great job of safely steering us through many hazards. They didn't have their eyes glued to the magenta line or the electronics. They know better. He and his brother are amazingly good sailors...even taking 2 hour shifts on their own in a storm offshore at 0300 and being completely calm about it. I'm very proud of them.

I'm the one that ran aground twice in the ICW. Not them.

CP 150 screen is just too small to keep you situational orientIon especially when entering unfamiliar harbors where the detail insert is very small.

The iPad/phone (ipp) are valuable for orientation and for planning. I could and have navigated by them alone. I've navigated by the plotter alone too. The combination is sweet.

Ipp allows me to carry both raster and vector charts. I often consult raster charts just to make sure the damn decluttering of the vector apps is not obscuring something. Also, just l,having the two different presentations keeps me better informed.

Obviously just my opinion and solution which has evolved over the years. I hope there is something of value in this post.
hpeer - you bring up some great points...

One of those is the planning capability of the iPad. I had failed to mention that that was one of my favorite aspects. Being able to lay out very detailed routes, access the internet for information, call marinas (if you have the cell service active), etc. - all within your primary chartplotter is a HUGE benefit. You don't have to import/export anything...it's all right there when you're at the helm because it's the same device.

Add to that the Waterway Guide integration for iNavX and you've got a very powerful planning AND navigating tool all in one. Having info on bridges, hazards, marinas, etc. right there at our fingertips was awesome.

Also, as you mention, being able to "hot swap" between multiple chart types and brands is a great benefit. You're not limited by a chip.

Obviously, I've moved away from the combination for these reasons (like you say, I love the big screen of the iPad), but I certainly understand the benefit of having both.
 

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.........You must be referring to Minnewaska who started the "mine is bigger than yours" thing.

.........So, remember, the system is only as fragile as you make it...as we hope Minnewaska will learn.
Just can't get me off your mind, can you? You're making these about me? Happens when I'm right and logically refute your points. Drop the mine vs yours nonsense. You can't find a place I've done that. You started pissing, the moment you read a comment that was opposed to yours. That's your MO. If it was the miles thing, I understand your confusion. You introduced that fact as substantiating your point, so I pointed out that it doesn't differentiate your expertise here. I had no other use for the stat. I've noticed that you've mentioned your recently accomplished 1,000 miles in many/most of your posts lately.

Most legs in the ICW were between roughly 40 and 80 miles (as measured by rough waypoints - usually more than that in reality due to the various bends). Offshore legs after Pensacola were between roughly 50 and 240 miles............

I'm surprise you think that sounds excruciating.
I'm not sure what speed you're averaging, but that would be standing for 6ish hours up to days. Yes, absolutely excruciating. I will add, it's also less than optimal by causing unnecessary fatigue, less balance and visibility for cruisers.

It just takes some imagination to solve problems Minnewaska. And it seems you have at least some of that.
Yes, I do. You need to apply some to the iPad, not so much to the CP. Kinda the original point I've made.

Well, actually I usually only throw shade toward those who only throw out strange hypotheticals, accusations, things that are inaccurate/untrue, dogma, etc. - but can't back it up with actual first-hand experience or facts.
Virtually no one that's been around for any time believes this, sans you. You don't like to be made to look wrong, so you go on the attack, when you feel you have been. Period. When you get some of your own medicine back, you try to say someone else started it. We've all seen the play, over and over and over.
 

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I'm not sure what speed you're averaging, but that would be standing for 6ish hours up to days. Yes, absolutely excruciating. I will add, it's also less than optimal by causing unnecessary fatigue, less balance and visibility for cruisers.
We averaged about 6 knots. But what on earth makes you think we had to stand-up the entire time?
 

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Why would anyone want to stand? Just doesn't make sense. Maybe because I'm an old codger, I enjoy all the creature comforts I can have while sailing, and had those same creature comforts when I owned fishing boats of all sizes. When I got the Morgan, the very first thing I did was to install this:



The seat swivels and can be positioned fore and aft about six inches either direction. Makes life a lot more comfortable when you are behind the wheel for 12 to 14 or more hours a day and headed south.

All the best,

Gary :cool:
 

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Because, when I asked this.....

You quoted it and said this......
You sure like interjecting crazy stuff into people's comments, photos, etc. to try to make crazy points.

Do you always stand when you're at the helm, Minnewaska? If you do, take it from a seasoned sailor or two, it's not always necessary.

Wow.

 

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Jeez you guys, you bring new meaning to Too Long Didn't Read.

Anyway. I just got back from a charter trip on a Beneteau 393. The Raymarine chartplotter didn't like to find the radar and also it re-booted itself at random intervals. I gave up on it and used a paper chart and my iPad.

However I mostly kept the iPad at the nav station and steered by eyeball and compass. We had the bimini pulled back to enjoy the sun look at the sails and my iPad is hard to read in direct sun, and impossible with sunglasses on. Also it tends to overheat and shutdown.

So there you go. You're all wrong :) Integrated, dedicated, same-brand systems can be buggy and failure prone. And iPads *are* hard to view and sometimes a pain in the pita.



Random thought: Why doesn't someone use Kindle's Paperwhite technology to build a chartplotter screen? Sure it'd just be black & white, but you'd be able to read it in any light.
 
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