SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 136 Posts

·
Telstar 28
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
In my opinion, the greatest storm safety device ever created is the Jordan Series Drogue.

The JSD was the brainchild of Don Jordan, a retired aeronautical engineer, in response to the fatalities that were the result of the 1979 Fastnet disaster. I believe that the Jordan Series Drogue is a piece of gear that every sea-going small sailboat should have.

Don Jordan was an aeronautical engineer, who worked for Pratt and Whitney, eventually retiring from his position as chief engineer. He was also a senior lecturer at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology for many years. He was a pilot and a life-long sailor.

Back when I was getting things setup for my boat, I spoke with Don Jordan a number of times regarding the Jordan Series Drogue. I was fortunate enough to get a personal recommendation for the drogue sizing for my boat from Don directly. Unfortunately, Don passed away last year.

What is a Jordan Series Drogue?

It is a safety device for small craft that consists of a long line with a series of small drag cones attached along its length. The JSD for the Pretty Gee consists of a 5/8″ line, 270′ long, with 130 small cones attached to it. It has 15′ of 5/16″ chain on the terminal end as a weight. It is connected to the boat by a bridle that is 45′ long. It looks like this:



Photo courtesy of Sail Magazine’s article on series drogues and sea anchors.

How Does a Jordan Series Drogue Work?

How the Jordan Series Drogue works is best explained by Don Jordan himself, on a website that he helped develop about the Jordan Series Drogue. Please visit the Jordan Series Drogue website to find out more about this ingenious device.

Who Makes the Jordan Series Drogue?


There are several ways to get or make a Jordan Series Drogue. First, you can get the materials and make them yourself. Buying a kit is often easier, if a bit more expensive. Both Ace Sailmakers and SailRite make and sell either the cones alone or complete kits, including the cones and double braid line, for making Jordan Series Drogues to cover a series of different size boats. Ace Sailmakers will also make complete drogues as well.

Why Use a Jordan Series Drogue, instead of a Parachute Sea Anchor?

Well, there are quite a few reasons to use a Jordan Series Drogue over a parachute sea anchor. Here are a few of the more important ones IMHO.

First, the Jordan Series drogue was developed and tested in conjunction with the US Coast Guard, and was specifically designed for helping small sailcraft survive in storm conditions, like those found during the 1979 Fastnet disaster that was Jordan’s primary motivation for developing the series drogue. It has been proven to work very successfully and protect boats using it from damage during its deployment.

Second, due to the change in boat design, most boats are far more stable when using a drogue than when using a sea anchor. Don Jordan has an interesting post about this on the Jordan Series Drogue site, and there is no reason to think that the forces that apply to a sailboat at anchor would not also apply to a sailboat lying to a sea anchor.

Third, the overall forces that are generated by a Jordan Series Drogue are lower and the peak shock loading forces that the boat is subjected to is far lower by design. The design of the JSD allows it to gradually increase the resistance applied to the boat as the rode becomes more heavily loaded—and doesn’t have the issues with collapsing and suddenly re-deploying a parachute sea anchor does.

Fourth, Don Jordan had no financial interest in selling or making the Jordan Series Drogue, as he put the idea and patents for it into the public domain after developing it. Some of the oft-cited information sources that tout the superiority of the parachute sea anchor type devices are a bit less than honest IMHO.

How to Install, Deploy and Retrieve the Jordan Series Drogue


Installing the JSD

Prior to setting off on a blue water passage, your boat should be outfitted with dedicated chainplates for the Jordan Series Drogue. These chainplates should be mounted fairly low and as far outboard and aft on the hull of the boat as possible. They should be tied into the structure of the boat as securely as the chainplates for the rigging.

The bridle should be about three times as long as the distance between the chainplates. If the transom is 12′ wide, the bridle for the Jordan Series Drogue should be about 36′. This should give you sufficient length for the splices and to terminate the bridle lines properly. Ideally, one end of the bridle should be an eyesplice that is connected to the eyesplice at the end of the drogue by running the bridle line through the drogue’s eyesplice and then through its own eyesplice so the bridle line forms a larkshead knot around the drogue line.

The other end should be spliced around a thimble and connected to the chainplate via a heavy shackle. Ideally, the bridle legs should be run through tubular polyester webbing to protect them from UV damage and chafe. These lines should be left permanently connected while on any bluewater passage.

The Jordan Series Drogue should be flaked into a bag or container, starting with the bridle end. This should leave the terminal end, with the weight, on top of the drogue line, and allow the drogue to be deployed by simple dropping the drogue’s terminal end into the water.

Deploying the Jordan Series Drogue


Make sure the drogue line is free and clear to run out before doing anything else, because as soon as you release the weight to deploy the drogue—you are committed to it… as the small cones will start to fill and increase the load on the drogue line. When conditions deteriorate to the point you feel the Jordan Series Drogue should be deployed, you should drop the weight and terminal end of the drogue into the water and let the drogue run out.

Check to see that the bridle legs lead fair and then head down below and batten down the hatches. If you’ve setup the chainplates, bridle and drogue properly, chafe should not be an issue. Don Jordan designed the series drogue to be an “ejection seat” for the sailor… where you deploy it and then wait for the ride to end. It shouldn’t require the crew to do much more than keep a watch. No active steering or other crew participation should be required once the series drogue has been deployed, allowing the crew to rest, eat, and restore themselves.

Retrieving the Jordan Series Drogue


This is one of the more difficult things to do. Don Jordan wrote:
I recommend that you deploy the drogue in fair weather to get a feel for the launching and retrieval. You will need two winches and two helper lines. See website.

I mention this because one skipper recently cut the drogue loose after a successful ride in a storm because he could not get it back — no excuse for this . Don
Now, I’ve tried out my series drogue several times and came up with a pretty good solution for retrieving it. What you will need are the following:
  • Two lines about twice the LOA of your boat, with a stopper knot tied in about two feet from one end, and one about halfway down the line.
  • Two snatch blocks attached to the base of the bow pulpit
The procedure is to run the lines forward to the snatch blocks and back to the genoa winches. The winches should be free, since you probably won’t have any sail up if you’ve resorted to a Jordan Series Drogue.
  1. Tie the end of the port line with the stopper knot to the series drogue rode with a rolling hitch. This will allow you to winch about a boat length of series drogue aboard the boat. Watch out and make sure you don’t snag the cones on anything while you’re winching it aboard.
  2. Then tie the end of the starboard line with the stopper knot to the series drogue rode with a rolling hitch.
  3. Next, go forward and untie the first line rolling hitch and bring it back to the cockpit.
  4. Then winch in the second line, and tie the end of the port line to the series drogue rode again and repeat.
On most boats, the series drogue and bridle will be about a dozen boat lengths long or so. So, you only have to do this six times to retrieve it. It is even simpler if you’re sailing with a second person, since they can be moving forward and retrieving the lines, while you’re winching in the drogue. This method also minimizes the amount of time spent tying and untying the knots.

The Jordan Series Drogue and Trip Lines

I asked Don about using a trip line on the JSD... he did not recommend it. As he explained it, the problem is that if the trip line and the JSD rode twist, it could compromise the JSD by fouling the small cones and preventing them from opening properly.

When the boat is not in motion because of the waves, the JSD will usually extend nearly straight down from the stern of the boat. As the boat starts to move, the cones start load up as the road becomes more heavily loaded. When the JSD is vertical like that, it could easily twist and foul the trip line.
 

·
Telstar 28
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I was debating putting this thread there....but clicked on GD first.. :)
Thanks, SD. I guess you think not enough people stick their heads in "Seamanship", eh?
 

·
STARBOARD!!
Joined
·
1,662 Posts
While I like the idea; and overall it is a good design, I don't like the fact that you must devote a huge amount of rhode to a device that you would only use in the event you are caught up in storm situation. If warps were towed for example; they could be re-used for other purposes when not being used as a drouge. The Neals (mahina.com) don't recommend the JSD for this reason; and suggest other alternatives that are as effective and easier to retrieve.

Don't get me wrong; I like the idea but I just wish there were a simpler way to achieve the same result (a progressive force drouge).
 

·
Telstar 28
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
The converse of this point is that if you're using a rode for other things, like the anchor, the chances of it being damaged when you need it for a storm drogue is much higher. :)

If someone came up with something that could do the job of the JSD without requiring it be a dedicated rode....that woudl be great. One recent development is the use of spectra based lines in the JSD, which results in a much lighter and more compact JSD...

While I like the idea; and overall it is a good design, I don't like the fact that you must devote a huge amount of rhode to a device that you would only use in the event you are caught up in storm situation. If warps were towed for example; they could be re-used for other purposes when not being used as a drouge. The Neals (mahina.com) don't recommend the JSD for this reason; and suggest other alternatives that are as effective and easier to retrieve.

Don't get me wrong; I like the idea but I just wish there were a simpler way to achieve the same result (a progressive force drouge).
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,467 Posts
I'm still not convinced of the retrieval issue. It sounds pretty difficult. Even on the website they mention several sailors just cutting it loose after use. And the retrieval method they do list sounds pretty intense as well (winching in 8 feet at a time, 300+ feet, 30+ minutes = very tired arms)

Granted I've used neither a JSD or a Gale Rider - hell I've not even been in conditions that warrant bare poles - but theoretically, though the JSD makes a lot of sense from a loads standpoint - the GaleRider seems to make more sense from an all-round usage standpoint.

Always good to see comparisons though!
 

·
Telstar 28
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I'm still not convinced of the retrieval issue. It sounds pretty difficult. Even on the website they mention several sailors just cutting it loose after use. And the retrieval method they do list sounds pretty intense as well (winching in 8 feet at a time, 300+ feet, 30+ minutes = very tired arms)
This is why I recommend winching it in 25-30' at a time instead. It speeds up the process quite a bit, since you end up spending far less time tying and untying knots.

Granted I've used neither a JSD or a Gale Rider - hell I've not even been in conditions that warrant bare poles - but theoretically, though the JSD makes a lot of sense from a loads standpoint - the GaleRider seems to make more sense from an all-round usage standpoint.

Always good to see comparisons though!
I haven't used a GaleRider, but several people I know switched to the JSD from the GaleRider.
 

·
baDumbumbum
Joined
·
1,142 Posts
Thanks, SD. I'm still turning over design ides for a trip line to ease retrieval, one that would not compromise safety or performance. Best I've come up with so far is to string the cones on continuous perimeter webbing, while the braided central line runs thru all the cones, through the apex hole, unattached. Something like this:



When deployed, the force is carried entirely by the webbing, which is attached to a bridle. After the storm, you could winch in the center line; a trip ball on the end would collapse & invert the cones as it is winched toward the boat; you should be able to get the entire series mostly to your transom and lift it aboard as an untangled mass.

To be sorted out: Making sure it doesn't twist (perhaps occasional swivels?). Providing adequate shock absorption. Keeping the center line slack, but not too slack, during use.
 

·
Telstar 28
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Bob—

That's an interesting idea... I don't know if it would work. You need to have a weight at the end of the drogue, to sink it down into the water so it can absorb the loads. The problem I see is that the double strip of webbing and the central trip line are going to be even bulkier than the existing design is. Also, the cones would probably be far more complicated to make, since the terminal end isn't connected to a central rope, and without the terminal end connection to the central rope, they'd have to be re-designed and heavier material.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,942 Posts
sd do you have a jsd ? if you do what are the cones made out of, is it just standard sail material ? also if you have one can you please take a pic of one of the cones and how its attached

tia
 

·
Telstar 28
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Scottyt—

Yes, I do have a JSD, but it is down on the boat. You can see most of that at the two websites I've linked to in the OP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,942 Posts
Scottyt—

You can see most of that at the two websites I've linked to in the OP.

thanks for pointing out there was more than one link there, i read the first one last night. i just watched the video.

i wonder if it would work as well if the cones where stitched to webbing instead of woven in to the line. it would be much faster to stitch than go thru threading and knotting 600 tails in to the line ( based on 100 cones ). i just looked 1 inch webbing has a normal strength of 4000 lbs, so the leader would still need to be double braid. new england ropes is 8500 lbs for 1/2 inch

i also had a retrieval idea that may or may not work. if every other cone had a small ring stitched to it and a line that was a few feet longer then the whole rig was run thru the rings and attached to the last cone. when the smaller line was pulled it would collapse the whole thing on to itself. using double braid as the main line would make sure it would not twist much or at all
 

·
baDumbumbum
Joined
·
1,142 Posts
Bob—

That's an interesting idea... I don't know if it would work. You need to have a weight at the end of the drogue, to sink it down into the water so it can absorb the loads. The problem I see is that the double strip of webbing and the central trip line are going to be even bulkier than the existing design is. Also, the cones would probably be far more complicated to make, since the terminal end isn't connected to a central rope, and without the terminal end connection to the central rope, they'd have to be re-designed and heavier material.
Anchor was left out for clarity; easy to add to the end of the webbing. Sewing the cone apexes (apices?) to a central line contributes little to strength on normal JSDs, since the force is mainly at the perimeter webbing anyhow. Bet 4oz dacron sailcloth would do fine. The whole point of the design is each cone bears only a fraction of the strain.

My design should actually pack flat, as the cones will flatten somewhat and nest inside one another accordion-fashion, with the webbing folded out to the sides. I could imagine a mesh pouch packed like a parachute: hang it over the stern rail, tie off the bridle leads, and rip open a velcro flap. Mushroom anchor falls out, pulling the drogue after it. Three minutes from lazarette to deployed. Most JSDs I've seen have to be packed in daisy chain fashion, which takes up lots of room and invites tangles.

Hey Maine Sail -- we got yer next field test for ya!:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,940 Posts
How about a remote-controlled auto-inflating balloon on the outboard end? Could be powered by a little CO2 cartridge. Maybe a wire running to a solenoid valve for the control? I'm thinking the sort of balloon freedivers use to carry them up from deep dives... just needs to be triggered from the boat.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
17,467 Posts
Naaa - just train a dolphin to continually swim beside your boat. Then after an F11, chunk it some cod and have it retrieve the JSD for you. MUCH easier! And you have some good entertainment for the kids.

There's got to be a better way. When the product's website admits it's a PITA and is still trying to figure out a good way to get it back on the boat...you have to wonder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,705 Posts
Am I missing something?

Maybe because the line I'm suggesting below will interfere with the set of the 'chutes but what if you had a loose lighter line running idle alongside the series drogue and connected to the trailing end?

It needn't be as strong as the main line because when recovery begins, you can simply jettison the boat end of the drogue and haul it in on the spare line with all the 'chutes collapsed.

Yep, OK, it is twice the length now but it's certainly a lot less complicated and a whole lot less drag.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,298 Posts
Along with the, "some folks just cut it, instead of hauling it back in" Come on now, not that it could happen, but you could need this twice or three times on some crossings, depending upon the year you travel. That is an expensive use of funds!

They need to fix the retrieval part of this thing, otherwise, like a lot of things, it may be the best at what it does, but if you cannot fix it etc, it might as well be the worst! This one appears to fall into the worst catagory due to retrieval, not that any one really asked me!

Marty
 

·
baDumbumbum
Joined
·
1,142 Posts
Agree we need to simplify retrieval. Then the design will become standard. ALL sea anchors or drogues are hard to recover -- they are made to resist pulling! People cut JSDs loose because they are tired, seasick, drenched, and can't muster the energy to winch the bastard back on board. They'll regret it later, but it's the sort of decision you make when you've been pounded senseless for three days.:)

SD's method of running forward and aft with nippers works fine on multis, in decent conditions, or with multiple crew; but I could see that sort of muscle-work being functionally impossible for me (140 lbs) after a blow, and possibly dangerous when the wind has dropped but the sea is still cutting up, the boat is heaving every which way, and you can't put up sail to steady it because (because why?) you're trying to winch the damn JSD aboard.

I'm going to make a couple prototypes this summer and troll them around, see if we can sort out a trip line scheme for these things. They really are a great development in storm tactics and people will be less hesitant to use a JSD if they know getting it back aboard isn't a nightmare.
 

·
moderate?
Joined
·
1,000 Posts
Introducing Don Jordan's Brothers' Drogue

Perplexed by the difficult retreival issues presented by his brother's
drogue, Mike set about designing something to remedy the situation.
Extensively tested and mass produced in China by Nike...introducing the
Michael Jordan Series Drogue! Just DO IT!!


mj.JPG
 

·
baDumbumbum
Joined
·
1,142 Posts
There's the UK version of the "Jordan": twenty Katie Prices tied together by their bra straps and thongs.



Outstanding drag coefficient, unpalatable to sharks, popular in many warm-water cruising grounds. But in field trials we've been unable to overcome the natural buoyancy of her head, even using quite heavy anchors. So we're modifying the design: now every second drogue will incorporate Jordan Knight from New Kids on the Block. They sink very well.

 
1 - 20 of 136 Posts
Top