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Dumbest passage plan since the BOUNTY sailed straight into Sandy?

14469 Views 77 Replies 36 Participants Last post by downeast450, Apr 3, 2015

JonEisberg

Discussion Starter · Feb 15, 2015

These guys left Newport Friday afternoon on a 43 Nelson Marek they'd bought on eBay for $10K... They were headed for Bermuda, on what was to be the first leg of a trip to Oz, via the Cape of Good Hope and the Southern Ocean...

Here's what they were sailing straight into, as shown on Passageweather on Friday evening... Absolutely mind boggling, how any sane individual could have left with that forecast... The text forecast from NOAA is perhaps even more sobering, featuring "Hurricane force winds, heavy freezing spray, windspeeds to 65 knots, seas to 36 feet", and so on...

They called for Mommy early this morning... Seems somehow fitting, the Coasties plucked them out of the North Atlantic very close to the same spot that RAW FAITH went down... One has to wonder whether these guys, even now, have any clue how lucky they are to be alive...

Coast Guard Rescues Sailors 140 Miles off Nantucket - Western Massachusetts Breaking News and First Warning Weather with WGGB.com ABC 40

There's a thread over on CF that was started prior to their departure, with links to stories in the Newport paper about their prep...

Sailing New England to Australia in February - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

And, in related news, the CG plucked another crew off a trimiran last night, south of Cape Fear...

Those helo crews and rescue swimmers sure are getting plenty of practice lately, courtesy of us yachties...

Coast Guard rescues 4 from damaged sailboat off NC coast | WAVY-TV

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61 - 78 of 78 Posts

ccriders

· #61 · Feb 21, 2015

Shockwave said:
Often, people don't know what they don't know. If you haven't sailed in truly crappy conditions how would you know?

Hasn't everyone seen those films of WWII destroyers out in conditions much like those in the grib crashing up and down on huge waves much like a fishing cork on a windy choppy day? Haven't we all seen photos of naval ships with scalloped top sides courtesy of crashing waves. Haven't we all been caught by a wave and tumbled up on the beach with the air knocked out of our lungs?
How could they not know the power of the sea and the relative inadequacies of their boat?
And, if they were told by CG not to go, then why are they not presented with the bill and forbidden departure until it is paid?
Insurance and beuracracy is not an answer to any of these issues. The first to be denied coverage will be single handers, the second will be mom and pop crews. Next will be any boat over xx years old....
We don't need to dunn everyone who sails a boat, just those that blatantly disregard common sense and good seamanship, after we rescue them.
John

outbound

· #62 · Feb 21, 2015

See your point John and agree. Given I either sail mom,and pop or by myself I would be the first to bear the brunt of my bad idea. However, would note if the boat is in the water other than posting a 24/7 guard on it at huge expense there is no way to prevent these types of occurances.
Still think there should be some consequences to unseamenly behavior. Perhaps indictment for reckless behavior as they place the CG lives at risk. Everyone here might need the CG at some time in the future. Even if we think we have a well found boat and are prudent skippers.
I'm concerned that at some point the CG won't be there for us. They may limit SAR to near coastal waters accessable by boat. The undertaking of helicopters,airplanes and ship deployment engenders huge expense and risk. We are an insignificant population. We have no ability to self police these types of people. Therefore look to you to come up with a practical idea to diminish these occurances.

ccriders

· #63 · Feb 21, 2015

People are going to get into trouble at sea, the whole marine community knows this and have a well found ethic to save seamen in trouble. Nonetheless, I too fear that the actions of some will have a bad effect on all of us. It seems easy enough to build a case of negligence as demonstrated in this case and that the best response is to make these people pay, more as a penalty that cost recovery.
Even the most carefully prepared voyage can encounter circumstances that requires rescue. Our problem is to discern gross negligence and use those incidents to discourage further negligence.
Not an easy task I'm afraid as that old ethic is to save everyone, whatever the cost.
John

MedSailor

· #64 · Feb 21, 2015

Mabinogion said:
Is that the unknown known or the known unknown or the unknown unknown?

While this is very true it seems like those ignorant of the sea still generally fear it. How many hundreds of times have you heard a landlubber ask "what about storms?!!?" when you mention cruising on a sailboat.

MedSailor

123456Wannasail654321

· #65 · Feb 21, 2015

Mabinogion said:
Should yachting insurance be compulsory with a significant amount of cover attributable to the rescue services if used?

Yes it would probably put the cost of premiums up, but by how much if every yacht had insurance.

Currently yachting is relatively unencombered by officialdom. I don't mean the type attributable to CG inspections or TSA/Homeland interventions and the like.

If the yachting fraternity continue to behave in a cavalier fashion expecting the Coasties to rush to their aid when the yachties own actions have been a contributory factor which appears to happen at all levels from VOR down we are not too far away from further legislation.

lets keep it that way the governemnt is up everyone butt for every thing else. So lets keep them away. ok.

Being stupid should not bring the feds in.

123456Wannasail654321

· #66 · Feb 21, 2015

The last thing we want to be is like Europe where you have to have governemnt permission to do mostly everything even mildly exciting.

Reactions: 1

mstern

· #67 · Feb 21, 2015

I don't see any reasonable or workable way to start charging people for their rescues. There is just no fair way to do it. I do however, think the Coast Guard should be empowered to "close" a port during certain weather conditions and be able to stop anyone from leaving. Any one who does choose to leave when the port is closed would be rescued at government expense, but prosecuted for violating the CG order. Punishments could include forfeiture of your boat, fines and imprisonment.

OldEagle

· #68 · Feb 22, 2015

There is always a lot of discussion about how much search & rescue costs for those who imprudently put themselves in harm's way:
Total 2014 USG outlays: $3.5 trillion (i.e., $3,500,000 million)--2015 will be more
2105 USCG budget: $9.8 billion (i.e., $9800 million)
SAR component of 2015 USCG budget: $786 million
So...SAR costs are about 8% of USCG budget, and a rounding error in USG budget.
http://www.uscg.mil/budget/docs/2015_Budget_in_Brief.pdf

Someone is going to need a much better case than this to justify lots of restrictions on the basis of costs because of an occasional nutter...

Capt Len

· #69 · Feb 22, 2015

First, the helicopter lowers down a card reader bluetoothed to home base. Then the rescue .

TakeFive

· #70 · Feb 22, 2015 (Edited)

OldEagle said:
..Someone is going to need a much better case than this to justify lots of restrictions on the basis of costs because of an occasional nutter...

The main problem is that there's just no concrete way to draw the line for who should and shouldn't pay. Especially in this kangaroo court, an argument can be made that virtually every SAR incident was the fault of the captain ("should have done more maintenance," "shouldn't have gone out," "should have diverted east/west/north/south" etc.). So if everything was done perfectly, there'd be no SAR, and the only concrete place to draw the line is no SARs at all - let 'em all live with the consequences of their actions. Then it's perfectly equitable.

But I don't think that's what anybody wants.

As long as SARs continue without fatalities or severe injuries to the rescuers, nothing will change. If some rescuers die on SAR attempts, then there might be enough of a backlash to change things. But there's still no good place to "draw the line."

willyd

· #71 · Feb 22, 2015

Capt Len said:
First, the helicopter lowers down a card reader bluetoothed to home base. Then the rescue .

Better yet, the EPIRB, instead of having just one panic button, requires the user to push a series of buttons that indicate how they got into the mess, e.g., "Press '2' if you failed to heed the forecast...", etc. The more reasons that point to carelessness on the part of the skipper, the weaker the EPIRB's signal.

Reactions: 1

alctel

· #72 · Feb 23, 2015 (Edited)

Idiots have been going out in terrible conditions and unsuitable boats since the first guy floating across a river on a log, it's not something thats getting worse. (though this is a particularly egregious case)

The coast guard is an emergency service like the fire department, hospitals and police that is funded by all for the (theoretical) benefit for all. Arbitrarily charging for rescue sets a really bad precedent.

What's next, charging people privately for medical care?

Reactions: 3

Mabinogion

· #73 · Feb 23, 2015

Its always entertaining to see what stating the obvious develops into with time polarising views.

Lunatics, for that is what they are, setting sail in these circumstances, are nothing like people requiring emergency services ashore such as road accidents, fires or ill health.
They are selfish inconsiderate idiots that deserve no sympathy for undertaking a deliberate and voluntary act in the face of Mother Natures worst in vessels not fit for the conditions and they themselves being so short of common sense as to be almost laughable were it not for the circumstances.

We should all review the facts again concentrating on the bigger picture with the benefit of hindsight. The facts do not change as time and comments progress.

fryewe

· #74 · Feb 23, 2015

Mabinogion said:
Its always entertaining to see what stating the obvious develops into with time polarising views.

Lunatics, for that is what they are, setting sail in these circumstances, are nothing like people requiring emergency services ashore such as road accidents, fires or ill health.
They are selfish inconsiderate idiots that deserve no sympathy for undertaking a deliberate and voluntary act in the face of Mother Natures worst in vessels not fit for the conditions and they themselves being so short of common sense as to be almost laughable were it not for the circumstances.

We should all review the facts again concentrating on the bigger picture with the benefit of hindsight. The facts do not change as time and comments progress.

You must live in a different world than I do:

- DWI/texting while driving
- extreme sports
- overdoses on drugs and alcohol
- hiking/hunting in rugged terrain with blizzard forecasts
- using open flames for heating a house/cleaning a gas stove (pilot light on) with acetone

Idiots abound...not limited to the sailing community. alctel's post is spot on.

Now, hold my beer and watch this...!

Reactions: 2

Mabinogion

· #75 · Feb 23, 2015

Respect all views, within acceptable parameters of course, just to make sure which planet I was occupying I returned to the O.P., re-read first two paras. and followed the link to Cruisers Forum article re. same circumstances.
Yep, thread was about the idiot/stupid yachties, nothing else implied.
BTW, 4 out of 5 from the above list are almost certain to cause severe injury or death to participants and maybe even 3rd parties whilst the odd one out is dumbass even if you are a true Mountain Man.
Cheers to your beers

hellosailor

· #76 · Feb 23, 2015

Maybe we need to give the USCG (who are not simply an emergency service, they are revenue collectors and at times a military department among other things, a true bastard agglomeration of roles) some extra discretion.

Right now they can say "You vessel is manifestly unsafe, turn around or we turn you around." So let's make that "Your vessel is manifestly unsafe, either you put these GoPro cams on the boat so we can sell the footage to Fox, or we'll turn you around."

Hey, I'm a damned Yankee. I see a way to make a buck here, and get the USCG some extra funds!

Reactions: 1

SloopJonB

· #77 · Feb 24, 2015

I'd like a report on those fools in a couple of years to see if they have survived.

If ever there was a finalist (or two) in the Darwin awards......

downeast450

· #78 · Apr 3, 2015

Maine Sail said:
This is the eBay listing it closed on September 7th....

1994 44 039 Carrol Marine 43 Nelson Marek | eBay

This is what the eBay listing says in BOLD & CAPITALIZED PRINT:

"THIS VESSEL IS A PROJECT. THIS IS NOT A TURN KEY VESSEL."

And this is what they needed to address before leaving????

"Before they can cast off the autopilot needs to be repaired, the wind generator needs to be erected on the deck and the cabin needs to be straightened out, the McGlashans said."

Yeah "straightening out the cabin" will matter in a 70 knot washing machine. I suspect they should have waited till after the storm to clean the cabin as the storm was just going to mess it up again...

And this is one of my favorites:

"We've got plenty of food, plenty of booze, good sails and all the safety gear you could ever need, so we're going to be OK," Jason told Newport Daily."

So I'm guessing mother nature disagreed with the "good sails" part and "all the safety gear you could ever need" meant a big press of the Easy Button......

I especially love the photos towards the bottom, of the engine oil pan submersed in WATER....

https://www.cubbyusercontent.com/pl/1994+Nelson+Marek+43/_0e8e5b4186974fb29e4f7e419fe28aab#1994%20Nelson%20Marek%2043/Sedona

The mental image I get now of this "experienced yachtsman" is that of Bill Murray strapped to the mast in What About Bob "I'm sailing, I'm a sailor, I'm sailing......."

As I read the events that transpired The Coasties were called for well before the $hit even hit the fan. Imagine if it had been more than 20 -30 knots before the multiple failures had occurred, torn sails, failed engine, & multiple charge source failures among others.......... Yeah they were sailing into the $hit storm but had not even gotten there before all these failures occurred. Wow.... My mind again wanders back to the eBay listing...

"THIS VESSEL IS A PROJECT. THIS IS NOT A TURN KEY VESSEL."

As I opined above, simply DELUSIONAL..... When are people going to finally wake up and respect the North Atlantic or actually take their duties as the captain of a vessel seriously.......?

Sadly the entire sailing community gets a black eye over stunts like this... Where was the sensible community, who should have tried to reason with these two, before they cast lines in February.....

The Principle of Natural Selection, has its place!

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