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Electric Conversion log for Kahleesea

37K views 282 replies 28 participants last post by  amandacian 
#1 ·
Thus begins my hopefully not-too-eventful conversion of my 1994 Hunter 29.5 to electric.

My assumptions:

~10kW motor @48V
~2 hours cruise speed @ ~5kts
Biggest, slowest 2-blade prop with the biggest pitch I can find - target RPM ~600 at cruise for maximum efficiency
Hull speed under motor power alone for short sprints (current Yanmar cannot accomplish this feat, tops out at about 6.5kts WOT. hull speed is 7.2)
Regeneration while under sail
Project completion ~ April 2019.

I'm open to suggestions as to motors, batteries, etc. I'm leaning towards a motenergy 1114 with a 5:1 gear reducer and used Volt batteries, since they're 9.5x9.5x10.5 and it will be easier to fit them in my available space than other lithium batteries.

Step 1 is this weekend - take video of the Yanmar 2gm20 starting up and running to show it's in good working order, and then post it for sale. Hopefully it will sell quickly. I'd like to remove it from the boat and drop it into the buyer's truck, as I don't really have space to store it anywhere.
 
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#204 ·
Update 5/21/2019

USB serial cable was the problem. The BMS is now working perfectly.
The battery box is assembled and in the boat, but not yet nailed down.
The new helm plate is installed with one raymarine unit removed and the key and multimeter installed. The multimeter shows voltage, amperage, KWH used, KWH remaining, and a host of other useful info. Added bonus - it runs off of the 48V pack.
I've had to abandon the converter idea for now and go back to my AGM batteries for the house bank. The BMS will be running off of that. I'll have to have two chargers, one for each battery bank, but that's OK for now.
Everything is fully connected and I've started testing. Which leads us to....

*MOTOR FAILURE* <sad trombone sound>

Once I had everything set up, I fired up the system and gently pushed the throttle forward. I went all the way up to 36A and the motor wouldn't turn. I assumed I'd messed something up, made something too tight, or whatever, so I completely decoupled everything. With the motor completely free, it still took 6A to start it turning. The motor was also very loud. I got on the horn and called Thunderstruck, talked to their motor engineer and asked him how many amps it should take to start the motor turning. They set up their system on their end (same as mine) and tested it. 1/2A to turn both the motor and the gear reducer.

They are sending me a new encoder. Its a postage-stamp sized circuit board that goes on the back of the motor and relays information on motor position to the controller so the motor can turn smoothly. This is most likely the issue. Unfortunately, they sent it ground, so it won't be here until next Tuesday. Ugh.

Nothing like being stopped 1 yard from the finish line.

My wife and I are finalizing our new decal for the boat. That should be here by the end of the week.

After the new encoder arrives, I can finish my tests, screw everything down, and get Khaleesea relaunched. Then the sea trials can begin. Finally.
 
#205 ·
They are sending me a new encoder. Its a postage-stamp sized circuit board that goes on the back of the motor and relays information on motor position to the controller so the motor can turn smoothly.
Devilish little buggers, those encoders!

We had a million dollar machine sit idle for nearly a month while we fought with Allen Bradley and various software engineers to get an encoder working properly on a new electric motor.

This was all custom stuff, here's hoping yours is plug 'n play.
 
#208 ·
Here are some pics.

New SmartPower connector for shore power.
Dual-chain coupler on the prop shaft
Cell monitoring software output
Motor and gear reducer
Inside of the battery box mark I minus the batteries to show details. The little black boxes are the BMS and Satellite (you need one box for every 24 cells). The white cables are the BMS cell monitoring cables. The thick red and black cables are the 48V cables. And the mad scientist gloves are for safety. :)

I'll take more pictures once everything is in place. I've made a few changes since these were taken.
 

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#209 ·
So the customer is dead in the water, literally, and the vendor is sending out a replacement part the size of a matchbook...and couldn't splurge on the eight bucks it would have cost to send that out via priority mail? Or any similar rush?

Over the years I've had a number of companies step up way better on the "Hero or zero?" scale, and when they step up, with or without being asked, to expedite something like that, it makes a LONG impression on me. (Yeah, I'm a hard customer. But a loyal one, if they at least TRY to earn it.)
 
#210 · (Edited)
Yep, that sums it up.

At least they shipped it out within an hour of me telling them what was going on, and they have given me basically unlimited technical support for the issues I've had. They've been very helpful, and taken the time to explain anything I didn't understand.

I offered to rewrite one of their awful technical documents for merch, but hey didn't bite. Pity, technical writing is one of my strengths. I'm meticulous about breaking steps down so an average person can understand it.
 
#211 ·
Update 5/28/2019


I finished the rough helm plate design. Looks ok. I'm going to have to put a wooden frame around the multimeter to help waterproof it. It wasn't designed for marine use.
The chip for the motor should be arriving today. Assuming it arrives and it works, that should complete the mechanical install of the drive system.

Remaining tasks:
Fix motor
Seal and lock down battery box
Wire and lock down chargers
Wire and lock down 12v batteries
Reconnect AC and DC panels
Finalize design of and put on decals
Reinstall bulkheads
Clean up everything
Relaunch boat!
 

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#212 · (Edited)
Update 5/29/2019

The new encoder didn't work.

They also don't have another motor of the same type because... their importer hasn't stocked any more of them. Why? Trump's trade war. They won't have any more in until mid July at the earliest.

So, instead, they are sending me the water-cooled version of the same motor. I specifically didn't want to go water-cooled because of the added complexity, but here we are. Assuming the motor is the problem and this works (it could be the controller, but most likely it's the motor) I'll have to figure out a water cooling solution. Fortunately, I've had tons of experience water cooling PCs for the past 20 years, so whipping up a system with enough flow should be fairly straightforward. Still, it's more time and expense that I didn't want to deal with.

At least I've found a use for the 48-12 DC converter. Water cooling pumps and fans are almost universally 12V.

Pity there's no way to send the bill to the White House.
 
#213 ·
I hope I'm not repeating the obvious but you've continuity tested everything with your multi right? It sounds like you're missing a phase -- either on the sine sensor side or the motor winding side. So verify continuity through all three phases of the motor (while disconnected from the controller) and verify continuity from the encoder to the motor controller... that kind of testing.

Anyway, best of luck and thanks again for keeping us apprised of your progress.

Sean
WK7R
 
#215 ·
I hope I'm not repeating the obvious but you've continuity tested everything with your multi right? It sounds like you're missing a phase -- either on the sine sensor side or the motor winding side. So verify continuity through all three phases of the motor (while disconnected from the controller) and verify continuity from the encoder to the motor controller... that kind of testing.

Anyway, best of luck and thanks again for keeping us apprised of your progress.

Sean
WK7R
I haven't tested continuity between the phases of the motor. I hadn't even considered that there might be a continuity problem in the motor itself. Anyway, the new motor will be here tomorrow. Hopefully that will be the end of the motor issues.

I've tested the output from the controller while energized, and it's consistent across all pole combinations. It could still be something like the signalling between the encoder and the controller, but I don't really have a way to test that.
 
#217 ·
Update 5/31/2019

Sooooo.... allegedly due to "weather events", FedEx was unable to deliver the motor yesterday. It's aarrived at the local FedEx facility, so if it doesn't make it to the delivery truck today I can go and pick it up at after work.

Saturday is looking really good for getting a lot of stuff done, and my wife and kids are going to help. It will be nice to have some extra hands. As a bonus, there's a food truck festival at the marina, so we won't even have to go far for lunch.

The decal has been finalized and ordered, and we're having a local person put them on for us. I just have to sand (but not wax) the hull.

Here's hoping for a productive weekend. Fingers crossed.
 
#218 ·
Update 6/3/2019

The motor is in and functioning normally. The system is mechanically complete and ready for testing in the water.
The chargers, 12v battery work and DC panel are fully complete. Unfortunately my refrigerator light is no longer coming on in the panel. I'll have to take a look at the cold machine. It's original, so it's not really a surprise that it would die after 25 years of service, but I'll verify that when I get the chance. The cold machine is in the opposite end of the boat from the motor, which means it's buried under everything that had to be moved out of the aft berth to get at the motor and aft bulkheads.
The decals will be on today or tomorrow.
I was able to cut out most of what needed to be removed, but I killed my multi-tool head doing it, so I need to get a replacement and continue that process.
I recharged the 48v batteries with the charger onboard the boat for the first time. I watched with the ammeter. It not only told me where the voltage was but how much energy I put into the battery.
The boat hull is cleaned. My wife was able to get 99% of the waterline crud off, which is better than I expected. For those that don't know this trick, carburator cleaner (the pressurized spray stuff, not the pour in the tank stuff) does an excellent job of cleaning off anything that's too tough for anything else. I was able to clean off stray bits of paint and decals easily with it, without harming the finish. Just don't spray it directly on the boat - it's very thin and will run down into your paint and make it very easy to remove.

Still to go:
Seal and lock down 48V battery pack
Finish cutting out stubborn bulkheads
Reset interior
Launch boat!
Clean and reorganize interior
 
#219 ·
Thanks for the update. I'm curious to see how well this works out for you. The only people I 'know" with an electric drive in their sailboat are on Youtube (Learning the Lines), and the few times they've shown it in operation, they seem to me to be motoring verrrrrrry slooooowly to save power. I'd like to know how well an electric propulsion system really operates. For example, when going for a day sail, I use my diesel to motor out of the marina and down the river at about 3-4 knots (no wake speed) for about 5 minutes, then at about 5-7 knots for another 5 minutes or so to get out into open water, then back down to about 3 knots (to point into the wind) for another 5 minutes. This repeats itself in reverse when returning. However, this all assumes there is wind, and it assumes that I don't find myself having to motor back for one reason or another. Last time out, the winds unexpectedly picked up greatly and from the "wrong" direction. I wound up having to motor sail and motor for at least an additional 30 minutes through some fairly rough seas and against the tide. From your earlier posts, I assume your battery bank can handle that kind of load, right? What do you expect the realistic range of your system to be at a normal cruising speed?
 
#220 ·
All I have right now are guesstimates. I can find very little data on regeneration or power consumption at various speeds. I'm treating this as a science experiment, so I'll be taking specific readings once I'm back in the water. I have noticed that everyone I've read about is missing at least one piece key piece of instrumentation. I have a separately-powered multimeter with a loop around the main power cable and a display on the helm. It tracks not only voltage and amperage but total kwh over time, so I should be able to get some very accurate measurements.

I have no doubt I'll have to make adjustments after the first few tests. Many of my assumptions are little more than wild guesses. There are so many variables that some trial and error is inevitable.

Once I'm back in the water, I'll start doing serious tests - I'll start with short trips measuring energy consumption at 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 kts. Then I'll start over with 500w, 1000w, 1500w, etc. Once I have those numbers I can sit in my slip and run the motor at a power level that corresponds to a speed until the battery gives out. Once all this is done that should give me a good foundation for how far, and how fast I can go. I'll post all of that here once I'm done. Once I know how far I can go, I'll start tracking how much regeneration I get. This will be a little trickier, as it's damn near impossible to make a boat under sail keep an exact speed, even if you're constantly adjusting your trim. I may have to settle for an "about this much" reading. Of course, this will be specific to my boat, using my motor, my controller and my prop, and may or may not scale up or down accordingly. I have heard that regen can vary quite a bit depending on the controller you use. I guess I'll find out.

I'll probably have to do some tweaking to the system to work the kinks out. I'm looking forward to it.
 
#221 ·
Update 6/4/2019

The decals are on.
I managed to complete the last of the demo work yesterday. Cordless multitools are immensely useful when doing work in tight quarters. I've never owned a more powerful, compact cutting tool.
I discovered that my emergency pump port on the hull had rotted away (you can see it pre-replacement in the photo, above the "a". Fortunately, it was only $17 for the replacement part and reinstallation was simple.
Khaleesea should be launched today or tomorrow. I'll complete the rest of the work on the water, now that all the hard stuff is done.
 

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#223 ·
Update 6/4/2019

The decals are on.
Until seeing your boat decals, I didn't piece together the meaning of the name "Khaleesea". Clever. There were some recent news clips showing that the name "Khaleesi" (and some variations) was actually becoming popular in the US for newborns. But given the GOT character's turn from good to crazy-bad over the past couple of seasons, I'm wondering how long the trend will last. There was a lot of criticism over the ending of GOT, but one of the funniest I read was that the people who have the most right to be pi**ed off about the ending are the ones that named their daughters Khaleesi.
 
#222 ·
The folks on Uma and LtL and others have pretty much all remarked the same thing about their electric drives: It is for a different mindset. With today's weather resources you've now got 5+ day forecasts for anywhere in the world. Very different from the 1970's or 80's when you were lucky to get a 3-day forecast even for the Atlantic, and no one could said that in just three days.

So now the need to carry sufficient fuel for 48 hours in storms off lee shores can be largely avoided, with a little advance planning. In theory. And if you simple accept the fact that you may have to anchor out and take an extra day when there's no wind...well, that mindset used to be normal too. In the 1770's it was normal for a sailing ship to wait two or three DAYS just to get favorable winds to get up from NY harbor into the Hudson. and then still need rowers and warps to get to a dock.

Electric drives will not let you run a boat like a railroad. Diesels will. Sometimes. But there's a vast middle ground, somewhat like buying a compact car and knowing you'll still need to rent a big SUV for extended family vacations.
 
#225 ·
Update 6/5/2019

Khaleesea is back in the water. They put her in the slip the wrong way, so I took her out for a very brief spin. Consider these numbers extremely preliminary.

There was about a 10 kt wind, so I don't have a calm day reading. Anyway, here are the initial results.

4 kts: 30A (1.4kW)
5 kts: 50A (2.4kW)
6 kts: 80A (3.8kW)

With my 9kW battery pack, that means I can get about 2.5 hours at 6 kts. Also, since I can push 100 more amps with this motor and controller, hull speed is definitely doable.

I didn't go above 6 kts because at just over 80A, the prop shaft started banging, probably because I didn't align it properly. I didn't like the idea of a flexible coupler in the first place. I'll probably get a solid one sometime in the very near future.
 
#230 ·
4 kts: 30A (1.4kW)
5 kts: 50A (2.4kW)
6 kts: 80A (3.8kW)

With my 9kW battery pack, that means I can get about 2.5 hours at 6 kts. Also, since I can push 100 more amps with this motor and controller, hull speed is definitely doable.
So at 4 knots your range is about 25 miles, at 6 knots about 15 miles. That'll certainly get you back in from any day sails.

And it sounds like at 100 amps you shouldn't have any problem pushing into heavy wind, although your range would be limited.

I forget, were you going to carry a gas generator? It looks like you could motor as long as you wanted at 4 knots with a Honda 2000 giving you juice.
 
#227 ·
I think you'll find the sweet spot is in the 3 to 4 knot range. With my Westerbeke 27 diesel five knots was about all I could tolerate and it was a noisy five knots. As for your prop noise EP is so quiet you can actually hear the prop which was previously masked by the diesel noise. About to launch for the season myself after having to replace one of the batteries. Enjoy you testing.
 
#229 ·
I really wasn't paying attention to how much noise I was generating, my eyes were mostly glued to the multimeter.

My old Yanmar 2gm20 ran at about 2500 rpm at 5.5 kts, consuming 1/2 gal an hour. At 3.40/gal, that's $1.70 per hour.

The electric motor takes about 65A to push the boat at 5.5 kts. That's about 3kW per hour, or about 36c per hour, making the electric drive 4.7x more efficient than the diesel, economically speaking. That means the system will pay for itself in a mere 4,477 hours of motoring. Less once I factor in regen. :)

Hopefully I'll be able to get some regen testing done this weekend, weather permitting.
 
#231 ·
But he won't be able to enter the Newport Bermuda Race. Their rules require more or less enough engine to propel the boat at hull speed, with enough fuel to do that for 100 miles, after finishing the race.

Then again...damn, the prep list for those races has gotten awfully expensive!
 
#233 ·
Update 6/10/2019

I went out on Friday and Saturday. I did about 5M loop on Friday, entirely under power, basically from my slip out and around a 2M marker and back on Friday. No problems at all.

I then went out on Saturday. 12-16kt winds, gusting over 20. A bit rough, but no biggie. The wind was about 5-10 degrees off the starboard bow when leaving the marina. I was able to up the power a bit to maintain 5.5 kts. Once I was past the breakwater I slowed down a bit more, as the waves were about 1-2ft swells. I got past the sand bar marker, turned into the wind and put the sails up. No problem. I was sailing for a couple of hours, basically just tooling around, seeing how much regen I could get. It was difficult to maintain speed with the gusts. After about an hour, I turned into the wind to take the sails down. I turned up the motor and... nothing. I could hear the motor turning, but the amps were far too low, and I wasn't getting any propulsion. Thinking that the drive belt had snapped, I loosed all the sails and went below to look at the motor.

That's when I discovered there was a hole where the prop shaft should be.

I immediately stuffed the hole with a plastic bag and jammed an old handle into the bag to hold it in place. At this point, the bilge was almost full, and the engine compartment was partially flooded. Fortunately, I mounted everything as high up as possible, so nothing other than the bottom of the transmission was wet. There was no water above the wood floor though. I went topside and took down the sails, threw out the anchor, then called seatow. At this point, we were at about 15-20, gusting to about 25. The swells were a bit bigger now, enough that getting a line secured from seatow was challenging. Once I was tied in I went below and checked on the bilge. The water level was reduced, but not gone, even though the leak was down to barely a trickle. After we got the to line secured, it was a straightforward, if slow, trip back to the marina and into the cradle.

Once Khaleesea was in the cradle, I found what you see below. The soft coupler (pictured when I first installed it) had let go. To make things worse, the bilge pump had also failed. I have no idea how long it had been running to keep up with the leak. If I hadn't caught the leak when I did, it could have been far worse. Once Khaleesea is back on the hard and dried out I'll figure out what happened to that. If it's time for a new bilge pump, so be it. I think I'll up the flow rate, just in case.

I'm not entirely certain what happened with the coupler. I was able to operate the motor at full power without any issues and went about 10 miles total with it before I put the sails up. Whether it broke, the screws snapped, or what, I have no idea. Once the insurance adjusters take a look, I'll have the local prop and shaft folks do the forensics. Regardless of what they find, I'm going to have it replaced with a hard coupler. I had considered doing that anyway, but I figured that the soft coupler came with the kit, so it must be matched to the system, right?

This is the first time I've taken on water via a hole in the hull. Not an experience I'd like to repeat.

But the boat didn't sink and no one died, so still a good day on the water. :)
 

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#234 ·
Wow what an unfortunate set of circumstances. But there is good news, Cap'n -- you apparently didn't lose your shaft and $$ prop. I hope you get the boat turned around and back into the water quickly.

It's unclear exactly what happened since you show the coupler in a what appears to be intact state. Did the two halfs of the coupler come apart/the double roller chain fail, or did the set screws that hold the coupler on the shaft work loose? I have the same coupler from Thunderstruck. I plan on dimpling my shaft where the set screws bite into it to help shaft retention. I am also going to use a PSS dripless shaft seal, and as a final guard against this possibility I was going to add a shaft retention collar just forward of the shaft seal. https://store.pyiinc.com/collections/popular-products/products/shaft-retention-collar. If everything else lets go, that should hold on.

But you've probably noticed from my posts I tend to over-engineer for safety.

Any chance you noticed what the amp draw was maintaining 5.5 kts into 12-16 gusting to 20?

Carry on,

Sean
WK7R
 
#235 ·
I haven't looked at the coupler yet. After consulting with the local prop shaft specialists, they think the screws worked loose. I probably didn't install it securely enough, but the kit didn't include several key parts that they said should be used with any installation, such as screw keys with wire holes on the end and SS wire to wrap them up. I had a dimple from the previous coupler on the shaft that I used to secure this one. Maybe I didn't hit it correctly. I don't have a lot of facts at this point, as I didn't have much time Sunday to do any work. It's been raining since Sunday morning and I figured it best to just pump out the bilge manually and close the boat up. It was in the cradle at the time and while it was blocked, it was still wobbling uncomfortably while I was on it.

The collar sounds like a good idea. A little more mass on the prop wouldn't hurt either.

I never hit 5.5 once I was past the breakwater. Heading right into the wind I was at about 100A to maintain 4.5-5. Once past he breakwater, I have to turn to starboard and run for about a mile before I can make it over the sand bar safely. At 90 to the wind, I backed off to 70A and was once again moving 5-5.5. For comparison, running flat-out with the Yanmar would give me about 6kts in calm water. It couldn't get me to hull speed under any circumstances. I'm reluctant to put the motor up to full power without water cooling. It gets hot to the touch after running at 70A for awhile. I'll have to bring the laser thermo and get an accurate reading once I'm back in the water.

I need to get a phone holder for my phone so I can get a second opinion on my speed. I've always thought my speedo was a bit off.
 
#236 ·
Yikes! Holy crap. Scary stuff.

So the couple that holds the transmission shaft to the prop shaft let go, and the prop shaft slid back (but not out) allowing a lot of water in? Is that what happened?

I'm not sure if I'm visualizing this right.



Anyway, glad you're OK and there isn't more serious damage. I'm really enjoying your write-ups, thank you.
 
#237 ·
Yikes! Holy crap. Scary stuff.

So the couple that holds the transmission shaft to the prop shaft let go, and the prop shaft slid back (but not out) allowing a lot of water in? Is that what happened?

I'm not sure if I'm visualizing this right.

Anyway, glad you're OK and there isn't more serious damage. I'm really enjoying your write-ups, thank you.
I was glad I wore my brown shorts that day.

You've got the gist of it. The shaft slid perhaps 95% of the way out and got wedged on the rudder. That let enough water in to overwhelm the bilge (while it was working). Sometime after I stopped the flow the bilge quit. I had to manually pump the water out once I was in the cradle. Fortunately, I have a socket wrench that is exactly the size of the manual pump socket.

The adjuster will be by sometime early this week and then I'll get the shaft fixed. I was told not to repair anything until the adjuster looked at it.
 
#238 ·
Talk about a sea trial! One thing I did notice on you boat is your prop shaft extends a loooong way from the hull unsupported. Is that the original design? I'd feel more comfortable having it supported by a strut closer to the prop. I picture it bouncing around quite a bit in the seas you described.
 
#241 ·
I have no struts and I cannot lie. You otha brothas can't deny, when a boat sails by with an itty bitty brace and her rigging in your face you get sprung...

I thought about having a strut installed so I could put a bigger prop on, but that would mean a new prop shaft. The prop guy told me to do that would be about $2500, so it wasn't worth it.
 
#243 ·
Update 6/13/2019


Looks like the coupler screws failed, causing the prop shaft to slip out of the coupler. Probably my fault for not setting them correctly. Luckily, no damage to the prop or shaft, and only minor damage to the rudder.

My insurance deductible is $500, which is more than it will cost to replace the coupler professionally, so no claim required.

Looks like the prop just scraped the paint on the rudder. A little touch up and it should be fine.

Overall, I think I dodged a bullet. Maybe I had enough karma points built up that I could cash some in.
 
#244 ·
Update 6/17/2019

The hard coupler should be going on in the next day or two.

I spent all day Saturday trying to replace the bilge. Removing the old and installing the new is no problem, though the bilge is very deep. I can barely reach the bottom of it while face first on the floor.

I was able to fix the cold machine. It now runs as well as it ever did. Turns out that when I reconnected the batteries after the conversion I missed one connection. The boat used to have a massive 8D on the opposite side of the house batteries, so I didn't reconnect those terminals when I put the house bank back in. Little did I know that the cold machine was wired into the hot terminal on that side. I just reconnected the hot from that side to the house bank. I'll put that on the list of things to change in the off season. It works fine as is for now.

The bilge seems to be wired backwards. The red/brown and orange/brown from the switch on the panel are reading as grounds, not hots, according to my multimeter. Also, the hot lead to the bilge seems to have been severed, and I can't find the break, nor can I find the lead from the battery that goes to the bilge. I really hope I don't have to run a new line from the battery to the bilge. Getting a line through that conduit without a string to pull it would be... problematic. There's about 8 feet between where the cable disappears into the bulkhead on the bilge side and where it would come out in the rear battery compartment that runs through conduit behind the head. There's no access to it anywhere in the middle that I can find.

But did I mention that the cold machine works again? At least now I can have cold drinks while I sweat my ass off trying to rewire the bilge. Hooray!
 
#246 ·
Please keep in mind that the numbers are for my boat, my motor, and my prop.

There are so many variables that you can only draw general conclusions in regards to other boats, even if they had the same 27' waterline.

Now, if someone could come up with an app that you could plug in your prop size/pitch/blades, your LWL, your motor efficiency, and your boat weight and plot a consumption curve, that would be pretty darn useful for electric converters like me.
 
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