[blowinstink]

Howdy all. The last time I was at the boat I did a bad bad thing and I have lost charging from the engine. I have a balmar alternator and an external balmar regulator. Not sure where the problem lies, but the regulator is not lighting up and the battery monitor confirms that I do not have charge coming from the engine.

Here is what I know . . . I started the engine with the boat still plugged into shore power. I *may* have started it with the battery charger breaker in the "on" position as well. Don't know where the OFF/1/2/ALL switch was set.

I know, I know, massive brain cramp. But the boat is petty far away and it would be nice to a) have a sense of what this might be and b) have a diagnostic regimen worked out before I head to the boat next.

I am undereducated when it comes to boat electric but I figure it is either a blown regulator or a blown alternator. If it is the alternator, I imagine that it might or might not be repairable. Can anyone help me flesh out these possibilities and / or make suggestions regarding diagnosis and repair?

THANKS!
-Matt

 

[Oaksail]

I start my boat all the time with the boat still plugged in at the shore power with the battery charger on, never had a problem.
If you started with the main switch in the off position, there's your problem.
Your alternator had no where to send its generated current. its probably just a fuse that has blown.

 

[Minnewaska]

I almost always warm up the engine, while she is still plugged in, with the battery charger on.

 

[Skipper Jer]

"If you started with the main switch in the off position, there's your problem.
Your alternator had no where to send its generated current. its probably just a fuse that has blown. "

OK, someone will jump in here and explain how a fuse can blow when the circuit is open. Unless this is some sort of cascade failure mode. No load (switch is off) output voltage of alternator rises pass the point that the regulator is rated for so output regulating device fails due to over voltage condition?

 

[Maine Sail]

Not sure where the problem lies, but the regulator is not lighting up
-Matt

-With key on check for 12V on brown reg wire = Should be 12V+

-With key off check for 12V on brown reg wire = Should be 0V

-Check for 12V on red wire at reg harness plug

-Check for continuity on reg ground

-Check in-line fuses

-If this is an MC-612 or 614 check for 12V on the red voltage sense wire at the reg.

You can't have alternator output without regulator output.. Check the egg first & then the chicken...

 

[Waltthesalt]

A more common cause of failure is a voltage transient from opening the alternator output while under load. If you accidentally turn off the load from the alternator while it's running, it's very possible the output voltage could almost instantly but briefly high enough (about 25 volts) to short out the alternator diodes. West Marine used to carry a ZAPStop that prevents this as it goes by shunting off current at somewhere around 17 volts. It's small and easy to hook up. This may not apply to modern digital regulators. Recommend asking Balmar.

 

[Capt Len]

If the 1/2 /0 switch was in off ,what was shore charger connected to ?. How could you start engine?If switch was in 1/2 all should have been OK. unless you then disconnected in a flury of brainfarts. Then the diodes blow. A couple of jabs with a voltmeter on the back of the alternator may be enlightening. Maybe just another loose wire somewhere.

 

[Gladrags1]

Unfortunately, alternators can fail immediately without notice. Their windings fail and there's no output. Remove the alternator and have it tested. It can be rebuilt for a fraction of the cost of a new alternator.

Tod

 

[Maine Sail]

Unfortunately, alternators can fail immediately without notice. Their windings fail and there's no output. Remove the alternator and have it tested. It can be rebuilt for a fraction of the cost of a new alternator.

Tod

He has no lights on his external regulator which means it is not working. You can't physically operate an externally regulated alternator without the external regulator working.....

 

[TQA]

Occams razor Check for a bad connection between the alternator and the battery.

If you have the Balmar manual for the regulator it has an excellent fault finding section.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Maine Sail is right.

We have a 100A alternator with a Balmar MC-612 regulator. Many time the ring terminals on the harness from the regulator to the alternator have failed. These are the terminals made in the factory by Balmar. I have replaced them all.

Check the obvious first, 'cuz if it's electrical 99% of the time it's the connectors.

Check every terminal at the back of the alternator first.

Good luck.

Do you have a wiring diagram? Like this:

Alternator Regulator Wiring Diagrams - all three Alternator Regulator Wiring Diagrams (all three)

 

[capt jgwinks]

I can see how starting with the charger on could hurt the charger, but not the other way around. If the regulator failed, it probably would have anyway. I agree it's probably a bad connection somewhere.

 

[blowinstink]

Maine Sail is right.

[/url]

Well DUH!

HA . . . just had to say that (obviously no offense Stu). Thanks. I am finally getting at this.

Thus far, I have 12V with key on at the Brown harness wire and 0V with key off. Both as MS suggested they should be. However, I have 0V at the red harness wire (regardless of key position). So . . . I am off to try to figure out what that means (as well as looking for in line fuses and the like).

Adding to the fun, I found one of my 2 house batteries (flooded) had exploded. NOt sure if that was from the cold winter here or something else, but my battery charger is not working either now. This spring break is gonna be electric . Oh well, maybe I'll come out enlightened.

 

[MedSailor]

Alternator broken and battery exploded?

These events might be related.

MedSailor

 

[CalebD]

Perhaps it is now time to remove your alternator and regulator to the repair shop with the one eyed dog out in front.
Also time for a new battery and charger. While you are at it, get some extra beer.

 

[Maine Sail]

Adding to the fun, I found one of my 2 house batteries (flooded) had exploded. NOt sure if that was from the cold winter here or something else, but my battery charger is not working either now. This spring break is gonna be electric . Oh well, maybe I'll come out enlightened.

Did you leave your charger on and connected to unattended batteries all winter?????? You got lucky the boat is not burned to the waterline......

 

[MedSailor]

Did you leave your charger on and connected to unattended batteries all winter?????? You got lucky the boat is not burned to the waterline......

I've done that every year for about 15 years.... I'm guessing I shouldn't? Although most of those years I lived aboard, so it wasn't unattended and my winters are mild.

If you don't mind the thread drift, my next door neighbor had a battery cell explode 2 weeks ago. What makes a battery explode and how does not prevent this?

MedSailor

 

[blowinstink]

Did you leave your charger on and connected to unattended batteries all winter?????? You got lucky the boat is not burned to the waterline......

No, neither. The boat was checked regularly and the charger wasn't even plugged in except for a couple of brief stints where a heater was run. The charger was off.

 

[Maine Sail]

No, neither. The boat was checked regularly and the charger wasn't even plugged in except for a couple of brief stints where a heater was run. The charger was off.

It is good that the charger was off. If you leave it off the batteries should be 100% disconnected from the vessel and the charger though, as in physically un-wired. Your batteries likely succumbed to parasitic loads and froze.

I see far too many cases of a failed charger or battery and a run-away when batteries are left charging and unattended. This is why most boat yards have rules against using them on stored boats..

I've yet to see a properly winterized & stored battery get over charged or freeze....

 

[blowinstink]

I've yet to see a properly winterized & stored battery get over charged or freeze....

Your advice is, as always, impeccable but there is give and take to this boat ownership thing. Time money and distance dictate to most of us and sometimes the best you can do is the best you can do. I am off to refuse the red wire in hopes that powering it up will remedy the lack of
power in the blue. Working slowly through the balmar manual. :fingers crossed: