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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On Sunday we tried the elevator method for crew-overboard recovery where you cleat a line at the bow and run it back to a winch, leaving a loop in the water for someone to sit or stand on.

Meh.

I tried to winch a friend up. First he stood on it, but couldn't keep his balance. Then he sat on it but my boat is small and the hull goes in right under the water line, so when he tried to sit on the line he just ended up under the boat. He wanted no more of it.

I'm a little more coordinated than he is, so I tried next. I was able to make it work by standing on the line while I was winched up high enough to scramble over the side, but it wasn't easy. If there were any significant waves I'm not sure I could have kept my balance.

In summary, at least on my boat, it's not a terribly likely option for a COB recovery.
 

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MOB. We are NOT going to introduce a PC acronym for a safety item. GPS units have MOB buttons. Lets not be stupid (yes, I know this is not your fault--this is a public rant:)). If a person yells "man overboard" we all get it, just as a climber yells "rock" for anything that is dropped, not "backpack" or "tree limb."

To my mind, for a small boat, the MOB can either manage a ladder (relatively uninjured) or they are going to need hoisting aboard (not easy on a small boat without winches and the mass to get it to hold still). Fortunately, on small boats the person generally just tripped and is able to climb; big boats they are more likely to have been injured by violent weather or moving equipment. If there is crew that is not able to climb a ladder (disability or fitness) they better stay seated. I've seen big dogs in the water that were nearly impossible to retrieve. It's a problem.

It is important in clod weather to make certain small boat crew is dressed for survival in the water, not the air temp.

For what it's worth, this is our drill:
Sail Delmarva: MOB Drills, Lifesling, and Climbing Equipment

I have owned boats without this ability, and I would not take crew that could not climb a ladder easily. It didn't make sense to me.
 

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I've brought folks back on board a small craft an onto the swim step of our work boat by rolling them onto the boat with two lines. Bring the body along side. Secure two lines to the boat. Run the loose ends under the body and then back up to the boat. One line high on the torso under the arm pits. Second line under the hips. Pull on the bitter ends of the lines and the body rolls up hill onto your deck. I rolled a body about 140 lbs by myself one time and two guys can roll in a two hundred pounder without too much effort.
 

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+1 I clicked on this thread just to see what "COB" was.
We usually just chuck ours in the woods off our deck when we're done eating the corn from'em. On the other hand, we'd NEVER chuck a MOB.

A serious question, as I'm still a long ways from being fully up to speed on sailing terminology. Does the word "crew" refer to any person aboard, or only someone who may assist with the actual sailing? Is a guest who's purely along for the ride and has no interest at all in handling anything still technically referred to as a "crew?" If not, then isn't "MOB" a better term in the first place.. unless we need to differentiate between the worth of a "COB" or a "GOB (Guest OverBoard)?"

The entire PC thing drives me nuts, too... AND my wife nuts. "Man" is just a word. Yes, it can be used to refer to the male gender of our species, i.e., "man and woman," but it also means our species in general, i.e., "mankind." If a dog fell overboard, wouldn't we just say "Dog Overboard?" We wouldn't say "***** Overboard" or "Stud Overboard," depending on gender, would we? Then why do we have to avoid using the word "man" when it refers to our species, not our gender? Let's go further... the word "woman" HAS the word "man" in it. We need to get rid of that, too. How about "wosapiens?"

Sheeeesh... I have a headache. I've got to go take some Advil to see if I can womanage the womangling it's doing to my brain before doing some peoplual labor today...

Love and snoodles,

Barry
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
PDQ, thanks for the link to your write-up.

If a person just tripped and fell off they could use the swim ladder to get back up, so I'm mostly trying to figure out how I'd get an injured or weakened COB back on board.

The next thing I'm going to try is the boom vang. It's 4-to-1 so a 180 lb person is still going to need 45 lbs of pull, but that should be doable. I don't have a topping lift, so I'm thinking I'll run the main halyard around the boom where the vang attaches, then swing the boom out over the side and hoist away.

My vang is about three feet from the mast, which means it's about a foot in from the edge of the boat so it wouldn't be lifting the person straight out, it would kind of be dragging them over the edge.

I've thought about using the main sheet from the end of the boom, but I'm not sure my rig is made to hold that much weight that far out, and with only 550 lbs of keel I'm not sure I want 180 lbs hanging on a 10' lever.

I should probably pick up a Lifesling.


I'm chartering a 39' Beneteau in Septemeber, I'll try the elevator method on that and see if it works better. I'm thinking it might work better with the larger, flatter hull.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
+1 I clicked on this thread just to see what "COB" was.
Oh jeeebus...... You people.

"Whaaaa, boo hoo, change is hard! Whaaaaaaaa!"

"Crew" is just as fast and easy to say as "man" and is equally unmistakable. One syllable folks, one syllable. Is anyone really going to be confused if they hear someone yell "crew overboard!"?

I have the most recent edition of Annapolis. If you look up "man overboard" in the index is says "see crew overboard."
 

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Oh jeeebus...... You people.

"Whaaaa, boo hoo, change is hard! Whaaaaaaaa!"

"Crew" is just as fast and easy to say as "man" and is equally unmistakable. One syllable folks, one syllable. Is anyone really going to be confused if they hear someone yell "crew overboard!"?

I have the most recent edition of Annapolis. If you look up "man overboard" in the index is says "see crew overboard."
Point taken. Mostly, I was just poking fun at the whole thing, not railing against it. I still think it's absurd that we spend so much time these days policing relatively harmless linguistic idiosyncrasies.. that's all. On the other hand, my question still stands... does the word "crew" refer to ANY soul on board including passengers not involved in handling the vessel in any way? If not, then why do we often hear the phrase "passengers and crew?" If they are different, do we need the term "POB" in addition to "COB?" I know.. stupid. That's kind of my point about the whole thing. Too much energy expended on something that's not really a problem in the first place.

Change ain't hard, either.. I just don't do it for the sake of change. To solve a problem or improve a situation, change is wonderful. However, expending energy to change something that DOES work well or that "ain't broke" when that energy could better be spent elsewhere goes against my nature.

Leaving that whole issue aside, I DO thank you for starting this thread. The whole recovery issue has been on my mind lately, and I, too, am about to purchase a LifeSling to be used in conjunction with a quick-disconnect block and tackle boom vang attached to a halyard in emergencies. Thanks for the information.. much appreciated.

Best to ya,

Barry
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The sailing club I'm uses Person Overboard and POB as their official terms in the instructors manual. I find that a bit clunky. But the club also uses "sidestay" instead of "shroud" so what the hell do they know? :)

John Rousmaniere uses COB, so that's good enough for me. I don't find saying "crew" any clunkier than "man" and everybody knows what you mean.

I also say "firefighter" instead of "fireman." I know a couple chick firefighters who much prefer the term, and even guys prefer it because "fighter" sounds more bad ass. If it's not any more work and if the usage isn't clunky, why not go with the gender-neutral term? I don't see any point sticking with old terms out of some sort of misplaced sense of tradition.

Anyway.....

a LifeSling to be used in conjunction with a quick-disconnect block and tackle boom vang
Yes!

If I find the vang tackle makes a good recovery system I'll need to get some sort of quick release mechanism. On Saturday I used the vang tackle to lift a battery out (very slick) and it was kind of a pain to disconnect it from the base of the mast.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Here's is a method that can work in a pinch. Tie a loop in the end of a jibsheet or any piece of rope. Like a stirrup. Drop that in the water and wrap the other end around a winch. Person in the water puts foot in stirrup and person on board operates the winch.
That's a good idea, the loop might make the method workable. I'll give it a try.
 

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On Sunday we tried the elevator method for crew-overboard recovery where you cleat a line at the bow and run it back to a winch, leaving a loop in the water for someone to sit or stand on.

Meh.

I tried to winch a friend up. First he stood on it, but couldn't keep his balance. Then he sat on it but my boat is small and the hull goes in right under the water line, so when he tried to sit on the line he just ended up under the boat. He wanted no more of it.

I'm a little more coordinated than he is, so I tried next. I was able to make it work by standing on the line while I was winched up high enough to scramble over the side, but it wasn't easy. If there were any significant waves I'm not sure I could have kept my balance.

In summary, at least on my boat, it's not a terribly likely option for a COB recovery.
do you remember the thread that started all this hooplah? the one where someone wanted to try a traditional mast rigged MOB sling on a smaller boat?

well there you have it...:D

the elevator method is better than nothing...but small boat mob systems are different and often non traditional...basically WHATEVER works to get back in is the system to use, and even then changes

thats awesome you tried it...

you should post an update on that other thread...jeje
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
you should post an update on that other thread...jeje
That one got a bit contentious :) so I thought I'd start a new one.

I'm on a little lake that's only 1/2 mile across so you can never be very far from shore. On the other hand a teenager died in it last week swimming to a raft maybe 50 yards from shore. The water is always dangerous.

Anyway, this weekend I'll try the elevator method with a loop tied in the line. I'm also going to pick up a Lifesling and try that with the vang.
 

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The sailing club I'm uses Person Overboard and POB as their official terms in the instructors manual.
COB I can cope with (although around here MOB is more widely recognised, so I'll be sticking with that as a matter of safety).
POB could be highly confusing in this context. As far as I am aware POB means "Persons On Board". As in, when radioing in a trip report to Coastguard or Maritime Radio here in NZ you would say something like "4 POB." (Even refered to in their radio handbook "www(dot)maritimenz(dot)govt(dot)nz/Publications-and-forms/Commercial-operations/Shipping-safety/Radio-Handbook-2012.pdf" - page 41).
 

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That one got a bit contentious :) so I thought I'd start a new one.

I'm on a little lake that's only 1/2 mile across so you can never be very far from shore. On the other hand a teenager died in it last week swimming to a raft maybe 50 yards from shore. The water is always dangerous.

Anyway, this weekend I'll try the elevator method with a loop tied in the line. I'm also going to pick up a Lifesling and try that with the vang.
good for you:)

the good thing is your trying stuff on your boat not just going by hearsay...the more you do and test the better and more comfortable you will be on your boat.

that other thread exploded cause some just couldnt understand that all boats behave different no matter what someoene states on the sales pitch....

safe sailing!:)

christian
 

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in my industry we still use the term 'girls' to describe the women working in the office.

as in 'I'll have my girl find it'

or 'do you think the girls can figure this out ?'

even 'what do you girls what for lunch ?'

the girls do not let the men curse or use bad language. they will call you on it every time.
 

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For all but small boats, a riding sail (see snap below) can also make for an effective means of recovering a MOB (or COB for the PC). Two corners are connected tightly between two points on the toe-rail or stanchion bases and the third to a halyard or boom lift and draped in the water. The MOB/COB is pulled/positioned across the head of the sail between the halyard/lift and the hull and a strain taken on the line. The MOB/COB is cradled in the sail as he/she is lifted to the level of the rail and can be rolled aboard from there. BTDT.

An example of a "Riding Sail" in service:

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
For all but small boats, a riding sail (see snap below) can also make for an effective means of recovering a MOB (or COB for the PC). Two corners are connected tightly between two points on the toe-rail or stanchion bases and the third to a halyard or boom lift and draped in the water. The MOB/COB is pulled/positioned across the head of the sail between the halyard/lift and the hull and a strain taken on the line. The MOB/COB is cradled in the sail as he/she is lifted to the level of the rail and can be rolled aboard from there. BTDT.
That seems like that would work well, especially for an unresponsive or barely responsive POUGEOSOAROLORBWINLATDB (Person Of Unspecified Gender, Ethnic Origin, Sexual Orientation, And Religious Or Lack Of Religious Beliefs Who Is No Longer Aboard The Damned Boat).

I imagine it would take a bit longer to rig than a Lifesling, elevator, or vang/main to harness. That could be an issue in very cold water.

From what I've read from Fortuitous, Catalina 22s tend to sail a lot at anchor and a riding sail helps a lot. I've got enough to worry about this year, but maybe next year a riding sail will be on the agenda.

For this year's POUGEOSOAROLORBWINLATDB recovery drills I'm going to stick with equipment that would on most boats.
 
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