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· Lake Hack
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rockDAWG -

Black smoke in a diesel? Not an underload (propeller) problem.

If the prop fell off - no load, max governed rpm could be achieved, and boat would not move. Same with slipping or malfunctioning transmission.

If for some reason prop achieved more than maximum pitch, boat would seem much faster underway, until engine torque is insufficient to further increase prop rpms. (like starting out in too high a gear in a car) This would cause black smoke, but would be evident by a change in behavior underway.

Overfueling - start cheap - air filter condition? Is the engine getting air?

Next:

Is the soft piping for the turbo leaking - trace the hard piping to the hoses and look for sooty residue, indicating exhaust gas leaking. When the soft hoses fail, boost escapes, again causing on overfuel condition.

Or, more expensively, dirty/faulty turbo - injection is set to fuel engine with "boosted" air under pressure from turbo. If turbo is not feeding extra air, engine is overfueled (black smoke/cannot achieve governed rpm).

If engine is idled excessively, or operated under light load, then carbon buildup in turbo/intake/valvetrain is culprit.

Amount of oil consumption was not indicated, remember turbo has an oil line, if turbo stalls, intake vacuum could be pulling oil from turbo into intake, causing oil loss.

Good luck -

CHW
 

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When iis the last time oil was added. Possible overfill of crankcase? We had similar condition with our Yanmar. They like exact amount of oil.

No need to pull the boat here. It's an engine issue. If your sure the prop is clean that is.
 

· Mermaid Hunter
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I don't understand pulling the boat without, as noted, a clear indication of propeller issues - vibration for example.

I think a leak-down test first and a run-up at the dock with an inspection of the turbo under load should be first.

Sometimes it makes most sense to do the inexpensive tests first.

Often there is more than one problem. When the gasket was blown and replaced what else may have happened (like an overheat, perhaps causing the gasket failure in the first place) that was not repaired? A leakdown test will rule in or out rings and valves. Looking at the turbo may rule it in or out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Gentlemen, thanks for your comment. It is important to look at from many different angles even the answer is so obvious. Thank you so much.

I investigate, I listen, I think, and I make the decision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
Someone's gotta ask, sooner or later... Doesn't the actual CAPTAIN on this $1+ million boat have any clue how to proceed with this sort of deal?

:)
I guess sooner or later, I have to answer this question. So may as well NOW.
To be exact, it was $1.8 million in 2006 dollars. :D

Both Captain/Owner of this boat and I share a lot things in common. Both of us are very intelligent and successful in our careers. We were both shaped by hard time and fearless determination. We respect each other integrity and view point. He is a fantastic sailor/racer who understands the science with the real racing & world experience. We had countless hours of discussion while we sailed from Jamaica to Chesapeake Bay. Each of us have earned each other's trust.

Does the Captain know how to process with his boat? I am sure he will, but he also wants to hear from me. Similarly, if Sailnet did not exist, do you think all of us will be at lost because we can't ask sailing questions. We don't have to be an expert in everything. We just need to be an expert in finding the "experts" whom we can learn from. With a good critical thinking skills, one can find the solution in the most objective way.

Without drifting all over the place and let me stated, I appreciate the owner gave me the opportunity to sail on this great boat, learn from him and allow me to sail his boat any time I want without his presence. However, like all the crewing/captaining I have done, I worked very hard to earn my ride. I am old school.

A good captain knows when he sees a good crew. :p
 

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My volvo performed exactly the same way last summer after the foam in the silencer fell apart and was sucked into the turbo. Completely fouled both sides of the turbo. No throttle response and tons of smoke.
Jim
 

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If the turbo's bearings are shot, then they could be allowing oil into the intake and cause excessive smoke. Be careful as if enough oil gets past it it can go into an out of control motor that will rev past the rev-limiter in a runaway situation. Very scarey and can easily toast the motor. I hate to think what a 175 HP Yanny must cost!
 

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Similarly, if Sailnet did not exist, do you think all of us will be at lost because we can't ask sailing questions. We don't have to be an expert in everything. We just need to be an expert in finding the "experts" whom we can learn from.
Well, that approach might work as long as you have an internet connection, I suppose... :)

For starters, you might consider adding these to the ship's library, in the event you might venture beyond wifi or cellphone range...

Or, should "the experts" on Sailnet actually choose to go sailing that day... :)



 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Well, that approach might work as long as you have an internet connection, I suppose... :)

For starters, you might consider adding these to the ship's library, in the event you might venture beyond wifi or cellphone range...
I am a grease monkey. I like to take engine apart and put it together just for the fun of it for the last 30 years. When you are off-shore away from cell coverage, there is not much you can do besides taking care of fuel problem or electrical. Anything bigger problem, either you don't have the parts, tools and space to work on.

As for this particular problem with this boat, this is not an emergency. I (We) knew of this problem before we leave the dock in Montego Bay. Besides, she is a sailboat. We encountered fuel problem twice during the leg from Montego Bay to FLL. But it was just an inconvenience rather than problems for us. Just two 10 min delays, fuel problem was resolved, we were back on tract.

I have both books you cited above for years and have read them TOO. It is not very in depth for trouble shooting. It is a beginner book. However, Compton's book is far better than Calder's book. In fact I found International Marine Sail book Series are better than most. I like them so much I bought the whole collection of them. :)

Should "the experts" on Sailnet actually choose to go sailing that day... :)
I am not sure whom the Experts you were referring to. I just don't want to start a war again. I have been blacklisted by the mighty Forum Gods. If something happened, I always got fcccuuked, :D But anyway, if they decide to sail, I am doubtful that they will be away too far from the cell signal. It is way too real.

OTOH, I am no longer a young man, time is running out. I have to be ready in just a few years. Sail, I must. I don't want some people here complaining that I activate my EPRIB when the wind is blowing over 10 knots. LOL.
 

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I am a grease monkey. I like to take engine apart and put it together just for the fun of it for the last 30 years.
Ahhh, my bad, I guess... However, your original question certainly does not read like one from someone who has been tearing into diesels for the past 3 decades... :)

As for this particular problem with this boat, this is not an emergency. I (We) knew of this problem before we leave the dock in Montego Bay. Besides, she is a sailboat. We encountered fuel problem twice during the leg from Montego Bay to FLL. But it was just an inconvenience rather than problems for us. Just two 10 min delays, fuel problem was resolved, we were back on tract.
Well, this is probably just me... But most of my delivery work has been running stinkpots, so I'm at least vaguely acquainted with diesel engines...

If I arrived in Lauderdale with a million dollar boat exhibiting the problems you described, the first thing I would do would be to have it looked at before proceeding any further. One could hardly choose a better place to do so, as the concentration of highly qualified diesel mechanics, marine services, and parts availability in that part of S Florida just might be unmatched anywhere else on the planet:)

Moreover, I can't imagine a single client I've ever had - after being informed that his 175 Hp diesel is "smoking heavily, burning oil, and has no power under load..." - would encourage me to proceed... "Nah, go for it, it's probably nuthin'... besides, it's a SAILBOAT, after all - not like you might actually NEED that engine in a pinch going out around Hatteras in the early spring, and what could possibly be the harm in running such a poorly performing Yanmar worth tens of thousands of dollars a few days longer...?"

But, like I said, that's probably just me... :)
 

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what is it with these threads lately when everyone is trying to make the other look like an idiot?

if you have nothing nice to say or even try to help without acting like an encylcopedia just keep it to yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there are countless threads now where one post is upped by the next and he who can reference the most and best the last on each thread wins!

its like a damn high school speech contest wher one guy comes in with a box of books and references and literature to scram the next questions answers as quickly as possible having no interest at all in what the questions really are or are intended to be...

guys just help and be nice!
 
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what is it with these threads lately when everyone is trying to make the other look like an idiot?

if you have nothing nice to say or even try to help without acting like an encylcopedia just keep it to yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there are countless threads now where one post is upped by the next and he who can reference the most and best the last on each thread wins!

its like a damn high school speech contest wher one guy comes in with a box of books and references and literature to scram the next questions answers as quickly as possible having no interest at all in what the questions really are or are intended to be...

guys just help and be nice!
As I said, it's probably just me...

...who questions the wisdom of a delivery crew leaving Lauderdale with a high-end yacht, bound for Annapolis, with an engine smoking heaviy, burning oil, and having no power under load...

:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Well, a wise man once posted on my thread. I should have listened to him more. Unfortunately, sometimes I love to fight and kick asses.

rockdawg,
Here are some good rules for listservs:
1. Never defend your posts or yourself (you do not owe an explanation to any one);

2. Never argue on a listserv (you cannot possibly win) and the conformists will gang up on you because any disagreement is an attack on their fragile egos or their sense of "belonging" to the imaginary group;
I guess I will refrain myself this time. hahah. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
what is it with these threads lately when everyone is trying to make the other look like an idiot?

if you have nothing nice to say or even try to help without acting like an encylcopedia just keep it to yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Glad you noticed that. It is not the first time or this will be the last. The attack became so personal that I must have done something right to challenge his fragile egos. There are two others like that too.

Let me line up more deliveries :D.
 

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Glad you noticed that. It is not the first time or this will be the last. The attack became so personal that I must have done something right to challenge his fragile egos.
So, it's considered "a personal attack" to question why such a poorly performing engine was not checked out before the conclusion of a trip of nearly 2,000 miles, especially when such a good opportunity to do so would have presented itself during a layover in Lauderdale?

Damn, talk about "challenging a fragile ego"... :)
 

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I didn't see it mentioned that the Max-Prop might have the wrong pitch setting altogether. I had a cutlass bearing replaced and found something wasn't right. I sailed all season and, coincidentally, I nicked a blade that season. I removed the max-prop in the Fall and found the two internal settings were not even a valid combination, let alone the correct one. It was a miracle it worked at all. Just another in a long list of yard tard stories.

To text a prop's pitch, push the throttle wide open under load and the engine rpm should be exactly at its max rating. If too low, the prop is overpitched and could cause smoking. The only weakness to this test is your tach could be wrong.

Any history as to why the head gasket was blown? That may have had other consequences.

All that said, my money is on the turbo too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I didn't see it mentioned that the Max-Prop might have the wrong pitch setting altogether. I had a cutlass bearing replaced and found something wasn't right. I sailed all season and, coincidentally, I nicked a blade that season. I removed the max-prop in the Fall and found the two internal settings were not even a valid combination, let alone the correct one. It was a miracle it worked at all. Just another in a long list of yard tard stories.

To text a prop's pitch, push the throttle wide open under load and the engine rpm should be exactly at its max rating. If too low, the prop is overpitched and could cause smoking. The only weakness to this test is your tach could be wrong.

Any history as to why the head gasket was blown? That may have had other consequences.

All that said, my money is on the turbo too.
We are questioning this actually. The pitch was last set at Trinidad. The yard did a horrible job while the boat was on hard. Evey thing they touched gone to hell. We will have a diver to check this shortly. However, I dont know what model of MaxProp it has, since the Classic model can't be adjusted without pulling it out.

The head gasket was blown on the delivery leg from Tahiti to S.Cal. It got replaced and installed a new turbo. However, the head was not serviced.

Thank you, Minnewaska for staying on the topic. :)
 

· Mermaid Hunter
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The pitch was last set at Trinidad. The yard did a horrible job while the boat was on hard. Evey thing they touched gone to hell. We will have a diver to check this shortly. However, I dont know what model of MaxProp it has, since the Classic model can't be adjusted without pulling it out.
I highly recommend David King at Annapolis Diving Contractors, LLC | Hull Cleaning, Bottom Cleaning, Divers and Dive Services in Annapolis and Kent Island, MD . Very professional.

I don't know if David will adjust the older MaxProps in the water. I've done it twice with a tarp under the stern to catch dropped parts and a bucket to hold pieces I haven't dropped yet. *grin*

The head gasket was blown on the delivery leg from Tahiti to S.Cal. It got replaced and installed a new turbo. However, the head was not serviced.
I didn't know about the new turbo.

$10 bucks on rings. *grin*

Regardless, having a diver look at it can't hurt and is inexpensive. Have zincs on hand for everything and redo those at the same time.

I still think a leak-down test is the first thing to do.
 
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