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not when you're on the receiving end, son... Let's just say it's pretty similar to saying, "oh look aren't they cute when they're little!"
 

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Ok, you win. I'll refer to her as Commodore from now on. Hope she doesn't mind the demotion. :wink

Just kidding. Truce?

/thread derail (I Hope. Sorry everybody.)
 

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A few years later, and the issue hasn't changed. I'm desperate to find a female instructor to take my wife (and me) through ASA 114.
If you are requesting input, a location might be of great help, also a google search can yield some help as well. :wink
 

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Teaching style is very important to learning, so I get the desire to have a compatible teacher. I wonder, however, if it has to be based on gender, rather than temperament, etc. In the end, the sea and the vessel are not going to treat men and women differently.
 
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If you are requesting input, a location might be of great help, also a google search can yield some help as well. /forums/images/SailNet_Toucan/smilies/tango_face_wink.png
Location is of secondary importance, but some warm, sunny climate - Caribbean - would be nice, and ASA114 is a requirement.
 

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With all due respect.... this is a BS request. Gender should play no role in an educator... sailing, sewing or science. It should play no role for the student.
 

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With all due respect.... this is a BS request. Gender should play no role in an educator... sailing, sewing or science. It should play no role for the student.
I agree with “should play no role” but, all to often, that’s not the way things actually happen.

I don’t agree that this is a “BS request” for a woman to make. If a female student ismore comfortable with a female sailing instructor, that is her prerogative.

.
 

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I agree with “should play no role” but, all to often, that’s not the way things actually happen.

I don’t agree that this is a “BS request” for a woman to make. If a female student ismore comfortable with a female sailing instructor, that is her prerogative.

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Having seen too much of it, this is a standard talking point of neo-reactonaries in the "sexism/racism/whatever doesn't exist anymore" camp. In their mind if there's a club/event/class for girls it's silly (or reverse sexism), because "gender shouldn't matter". Anyone who knows girls in male-dominated fields knows that this is of course nonsense. But the culture can be hard to notice if you're male and don't know what to look for (or don't want to..)
 

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It’s valid to want a female teacher.


My teacher for 103 and 104 was a woman named Vicki with Northern Breezes Sailing School. She teaches on Lake Superior in the summer which doesn’t really fit your “warm, sunny climate” requirement, but teaches in the Caribbean in the winter. I'm not sure if she does 114.

British Virgin Islands, Caribbean, St. Martin Sailing
 

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I don't deny sexism exists. I don't think we should nourish it. Any teacher who is sexist should be dismissed. I know some incredible female sailors... one was a teacher too. What you want is a good teacher and that has nothing to do with gender. Same applies to crew.... I don't care what the gender is... I do care about competence and compatibility.
 

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SanderO, you're totally right, and also totally wrong (IMO).

While it's true that gender should play no role, it's also the case that many sailing instructors are not properly equipped with the right emotional, cultural, and pedagogical tools to instruct people who come from a significantly different cultural background than they do. (In other words, many sailing instructors are sexist, racist jerks.)

It is, given the state of sailing culture, extremely unlikely that a woman would become a sailing instructor without developing the tools to handle folks of backgrounds different than her own, and thus should be better equipped. It's an unfortunate request, but also sadly not BS.

I'd suggest that sailing schools that employ women and non-white folks might be better places to learn than ones that are homogenous.
 

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SanderO, you're totally right, and also totally wrong (IMO).

While it's true that gender should play no role, it's also the case that many sailing instructors are not properly equipped with the right emotional, cultural, and pedagogical tools to instruct people who come from a significantly different cultural background than they do. (In other words, many sailing instructors are sexist, racist jerks.)

It is, given the state of sailing culture, extremely unlikely that a woman would become a sailing instructor without developing the tools to handle folks of backgrounds different than her own, and thus should be better equipped. It's an unfortunate request, but also sadly not BS.

I'd suggest that sailing schools that employ women and non-white folks might be better places to learn than ones that are homogenous.
I don't know what sort of people sailing instructors are these days. When I took the Steve Colgate class the teacher was a perfect gentleman and this was not even an issue. I took the course with my wife back in 1985.

Where do you get the idea that most male sailing instructors are sexist pigs?

Ask Joe Cooper....
 

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It’s not a matter of instructors being sexist pigs, it’s more subtle than that.

A man can be a “perfect gentleman” but still talk down to women without realizing he’s doing it. He may unconsciously think that women are less knowledgable or less capable, and although he doesn’t realize he’s thinking that and would certainly deny it, it could still affect the way he teaches.

And of course many men are not that way.

But if you’re looking at spending several thousand dollars to take lessons from someone for a week, instead of playing the odds that you get a good male I think a person is within their rights to seek out a female instructor.
 

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With all due respect.... this is a BS request. Gender should play no role in an educator... sailing, sewing or science. It should play no role for the student.
No it shouldn't.

Yet....

A previous poster recommended the 'women who sail' Facebook group. I can not recommend this group highly enough (albeit only from a second hand experience as I am not in fact a woman). My wife however is an member of the Australian branch and they are a fantastically active resource for women who wish to sail.

To those (male) posters who wish to try and make a case that chauvinism no longer exists in sailing in their experience(as men) i'll leave you alone to happily continue believing whatever you like :)
 

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It's remarkable that the suggestion gender should not matter is itself considered sexism or a marker for it. I'm more inclined to think the characterization of men in this thread is the most sexist thing I read. It's a forum that allows for it, not unlike a men's only club would in reverse. Yes, sexism exists. Abundantly both ways.

I would inherently prefer a male instructor, because they are more likely to be like me and I'm more likely to relate. l would never allow myself to take that poison pill, because it simply perpetuates the division. It's no more valid for a female to generically predetermine other females more capable.

You pick. If you're okay with segregation, you're okay with it. If you're not, you don't get to proclaim your indulgence to be appropriate.
 
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