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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted on this a while ago but I am just now able to get started.


THe first question is, can I repair this without removing the hardware- if not, i could use some suggestions to get the hardware off.

The large countersunk stainless screws have double nuts on the back, i managed to force the outer ones off but they fought all the way and were too hot to touch when i finished. With just a screw slot to grab on I can't imagine how I'll get the inner nuts off.


So I'm considering whether or not a proper repair can be made with everything in place.

I figure I can push the glass back together with lots or epoxy, clamp it in place, and add reinforcing straps of epoxy and fiberglass cloth.

It's under a substantial load so I want some input as to whether or not this is sound thinking.

Thanks
 

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Clean it

Clean it up with a Dremel and smooth the edges. This roller should NEVER be under substantial load. Rollers are for transportation and stowage of an anchor not for anchirng use in rough conditions. When anchoring you should really run the rode through a bow chock and then to a cleat. For storage and transportation there should still be plenty of strength there.

It just looks as if the anchor shank has chipped the edges unless I am missing something in the photo..
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It just looks as if the anchor shank has chipped the edges unless I am missing something in the photo..
Not exactly, the whole mess stove in several inches, it has been pushed back almost to the correct position in the photos. The forestay also attaches to this massive hunk of metal. So i need the replicate the original strength.
 

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I'm considering whether or not a proper repair can be made with everything in place.

It's under a substantial load so I want some input as to whether or not this is sound thinking.
. . The whole mess stove in several inches, it has been pushed back almost to the correct position in the photos. The forestay also attaches to this massive hunk of metal. So i need the replicate the original strength.
If I read this correctly, this Anchor Roller also doubles a the Stem Piece. Thus it is under tremendous loads. In other words, if this fails you can loose your rig. Don't take any chances on this.
i could use some suggestions to get the hardware off.
Don't worry about saving the fasteners (screws and nuts) -- it would be prudent to replace them anyway.

Break off the nuts underneath and hammer out the screws with a drift pin. Of, if that fails, drill out the screws from the top down.

Then remove the fitting and do a proper repair.

:) The next time you're blissfully tacking into 10 foot seas and 40 kts of breeze, you'll relax knowing you took the time to do it right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
OK, - any suggestions on where to order those screws? I've never seen stainless countersunk screws 1/2" X 2" in the bin at Ace Hardware. :confused:
 

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if you can please get a pick showing the under side of it.

as for screws west marine has a good screw selection, and i would bet they have it. also look up fasteners in the yellow pages.

as for a repair, i wonder if you could get a plate made to fit up underneath it. then saturate the glass with thin epoxy, and coat the plate with thicken epoxy and bolt it in to place and thru the deck on the sides. the plate would be shaped like ( if this works )

___....... ___
....\ ......./
.....\____/ ignore the periods they are needed to keep the spacing

or how ever to fit tight, this would allow the stock screws to sandwich the glass between the plates and the upper wings could be bolted to the decl to spread the load out
 

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Being an avid "do-it-yourselfer" myself, I applaud your spirit. After mucking up what I thought was a simple, non-structural fiberglass repair, I have learned that sometimes you need to get a professional involved.

First, from what I've read about fiberglass, more epoxy does not make a stronger bond. The strength is in fiberglass cloth.

Second, it appears there is a core material sandwiched in the fiberglass. Does this need to be built up or repaired?

I wonder what else may be going on under roller plate. Since you've already started removing fasteners, you might as well inspect the rest of this. As stated previously, marine quality fasteners are readily available.

Considering the structural importance of this repair, it might be prudent to at least get a professional, in person (no offense anybody) consultation.

I hate to spoil the party, but I'd really hate to see you lose your rig.
 

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You absolutely cannot patch up your busted bow with epoxy if the fg structural matrial is broken or cracked. You need to remove all fittings, cut out any cracked or broken glass, then grind back the material so there is adequate bonding space, then reglass, apply gelcoat and re-install fittings.

About 20 years ago, a yard did this job for me for $3000. You should consider very carefully whether you should take this on yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
About 20 years ago, a yard did this job for me for $3000. You should consider very carefully whether you should take this on yourself.
Don't worry, this forum is not my only source of guidance. I have several mentors for the actual appliation of the glass when the time comes but I like to approach those guys with some sort of plan lest they argue amongst themselves how to advise me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
moving right along....

Grinding off the bolts was a much better idea than trying to save them.

Now with everything off i have a better idea how to apporach this.

The 'box' was part of the original mold. it was very thin. after the mold they apprently did what i am planing to do. Using the molded box as a guide they added several layers of glass on both sides to provide the strength then drilled holes to mount the anchor roller.

I will grind most of the old glass off, and rebuild. The bulk of the work is inside the anchor locker so there are no cosmetic challenges.
 

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Don't worry, this forum is not my only source of guidance. I have several mentors for the actual appliation of the glass when the time comes but I like to approach those guys with some sort of plan lest they argue amongst themselves how to advise me.
Have fun...learning by doing makes boating fun, and hey, what can go wrong, its only the forestay fitting...?
 

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Go for it. It sounds like you're well informed and well prepared. Looking forward to seeing the finished project.
 

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I'm in the middle of a big structural repair myself right now. The big question I have is, can you get down inside that locker with your whole body? If you can't that is going to be one tough ass repair.

Everything must come off. You'll find that the repair is SO much easier without everything in the way that you won't find the time it takes to be a problem at all. I'd cut the ends of the bolts off where the first nuts were. Trying to remove second nut over the galling left by the first really would be likely to fail. If you have the room under there, and you know someone with a nut cracker you might be able to get them off that way. I have one, I'll have to see it would do a 1/2" nut.

You are not doing a repair. It failed because it wasn't strong enough before. So it has to be reengineered as well, so it doesn't happen again. Sometimes you get lucky, and WHY it failed is obvious. That is the case with the keel on my ETAP 26. The problem is so obvious the designer should have been fired.

Get several people to look at it. If someone tells you how easy the fix is be very wary. A big part of the repair cost is prep work, like removing everything in the way, stripping off ALL the paint or gelcoat in the repair area etc. That kind of work you may be able to do yourself. I had to remove the holding tank, water tank, nav station, table, head door, all cabinet work on one side, and the main bulkhead to get to the repair area in my boat. I spent four days on my knees in a corner just grinding away gelcoat. The actual glassing repair is quite easy.

Take the digital camera and reach down inside and take lots more pictures for a better evaluation too. It'sa powerful tool fo this kind of thing.

Gary H. Lucas
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You are not doing a repair. It failed because it wasn't strong enough before. So it has to be reengineered as well, so it doesn't happen again. Sometimes you get lucky, and WHY it failed is obvious. That is the case with the keel on my ETAP 26. The problem is so obvious the designer should have been fired.

Gary H. Lucas
Not exactly- I lost reverse while approaching a steel bulkhead with a seven ton boat. I'd say the failure was right in the margins of expected performance.

This is a Nicholson 31- it is included in John Vigor's "20 Small Sailboats to Take you Anywhere" and James Baldwin's Good Old Boats List-

I question most of my decisions since becoming her owner but I never question her design.

I cut all the bolts off and ground off the damaged glass.

The bulk of the work is well hidden in the anchor locker so there are no major cosmetic challenges.

Complete access to the whole area is pretty good. This weekend I will apply multiple layers of roving overlapped and spread well past the damaged area and hopefully I'll have it back together by Sunday night.

I will take lots of pictures (that's actually what I do for a living) and if the finished repair looks good then I will share them here. ;)

thanks
 

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First you need the roller out of there so you can asses everything with a clear view.
When you have two nuts, the first nut removed will in most cases clean the threads so the second nut comes off easily. Especially with stainless, make sure you use a lube when removing, preferably oil or grease, not wd40 or similar, as stainless to stainless with a load on it will gall and eat threads or jamb them tight enough to feel like they're welded.
Two jamb nuts at the end of the screw will allow you to hold the screw while you loosen the originals.

After that you'll have to inspect everything to determine the best approach.

Just from the pics, I'd think about grinding the breaks back to solid glass to get rid of any splinters, delamination, or fuzz, grind a bevel, apply the fiberglass, then cut a plywood or aluminum triangle to spread the load as much as possible to the unbroken areas around it. Possibly some gussets tabbed in to transfer part of the load to the hull.
(plate on underside of roller mount dip, with bedded spacers beside to transfer the load to the deck)

Ken.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Just from the pics, I'd think about grinding the breaks back to solid glass to get rid of any splinters, delamination, or fuzz, grind a bevel, apply the fiberglass, then cut a plywood or aluminum triangle to spread the load as much as possible to the unbroken areas around it. Possibly some gussets tabbed in to transfer part of the load to the hull.
(plate on underside of roller mount dip, with bedded spacers beside to transfer the load to the deck)

Ken.
Done- i removed all the hardware, ground off all the loose glass, leaving just the thin shell that came out of the original mold. I filled in the cracks to hold it in place. Next I'll add glass underneath in multple layers and then drill new holes.

I would not be inclined to make a metal back. Like I said- the orginal design is presumed more than adequate so I'll just put a bit more glass than it had off the assembly line.

It'll make more sense when I put up some more photos.
 

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Having smelled resin most of my life these may be of help. I'm not sure of your earliar posts but sounds your working under deck chain locker stemhead fitting. Working in confindd space make sure you have fan or aircomp. for air. grind off bolts remove. Glass grind clean top and down hull sides maybe 4-6 ins make pattern of replacement needed. use csm or chopped strand mat . use marine lam resin will stay sticky if you do little at a time make sure you knock off any huckerys sticking up before next go or air bubbles will form, need brushs 2in, mixing cups, acetone, hardner, handgloves, eye protection. Gllassing upside down is a *****. If you do not get all stuck up on edges, it will want to peel off. Cut csm mat to pattern. Each layer about 1in bigger or smaller depending how y cut pattern. csm is only glass that will comform to odd shapes. it has a glue that desolves in resin.Brush resin before csm goes on.U need about 6 layers try to go down sides of hull. watch hardner amounts as time is important also as layers get thicker heat will build rapidly, watch your brush for resin looking like jello, csm fibers will also clump but kicking off resin looks like jello settin up, finish up quick then go again after it cools. Experment out side on old crate or box also try upside down. You want to end up with about 1/2in buildup. drill new bolt holes try and use 316 not 308 stainless hrdw use large fender washers, (can double up) locktight threads or epoxy threads.
Aloha Gary
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well I hope I didn't totally screw it up :)

I did it yesterday morning and it looks like i was pretty close to your suggestions.

I used roving, it seemed to have enough flex to conform to the odd shapes, I alternated seven layers, four wrapping upward around the 'box' and three wrapping forward to the adjacent hull.

Working upside down was difficult. I used West System SLOW hardener. The layers sagged slowly, I just kept my hands on it until it set a bit. After it hardened I tapped on it and there seems be one small void near the aft edge, the rest of it returns dense THUD- like oak,

It's a bit on the ugly side but I think it will do the job. (a lot like my welding)

thanks
 
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