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Discussion Starter #1
I want to replace some cam cleats and one rope clutch on my boat, assuming the same holes can't be used what's the best way to fill the old holes and not have any leaks or issues....

Also, any reason I can use a cam cleat behind a winch instead of the traditional dock style cleat :confused:

Thanks
 

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The horn cleats spread the load over a larger footprint, which can be advantageous, and horn cleats don't really care about the line's angle. Also, cam cleats sometimes have issues if they aren't designed for the size line that you're using. Otherwise, yes they can be behind the winch. Personally, though, I'd look at a clutch in front of the winch, depending on which winch/line we're talking about. If it's for a few lines that won't be tweaked too often (e.g., halyards, outhaul, etc.), you can use a single winch to adjust multiple lines if a multi-line clutch is sitting in front of the winch.

To fill the old holes, I'd check to make sure you don't have water intrusion into them. If you do, try to dry them out as much as possible (there are threads here on that). Dig out as much of the rotten core as possible, too. Assuming the old holes/components were through bolted, put some tape across the bottom of the hole to form a temporary "floor". Then inject expoxy resin into the hole, filling it as much as possible. That resin is thinner than it will be once activated, so it will tend to seep into the core around the hole. Suck the excess resin out of the hole and add activator, then inject it again (add silica thickener if the holes are big). Then sit back and wait for it to cure.
 

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Take a slightly (1/32) over sized drill bit and slightly bevel the top edge - this relieves the stresses and helps prevent later crazing in the gel coat.
Tape the underside, fill with epoxy to almost the top, allow to cure.
The tape is so it doesn't just pour through. If you can't get to the bottom, no sweat, it won't pour through. You can also use thicken epoxy. It's not structural, and won't be visible so wood saw dust works as a filler.

Once cured use either gel coat (with color match) or Marinetex - put a touch on a regular old fashioned razor blade and use the blade like a putty knife to fill the hole completely.

The smooth edge of the razor will make a smooth surface - you might not even have to sand.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ok, I get the idea behind the horn cleat, that makes sense. I was thinking of putting the cam cleats behind the winches used for the jib sheets, It seems it would be easier, single handed, to release the sheet from the cam cleat than to unravel the horn cleat. They can be position straight back of the winch...IDK

I'm sure the hole I was referring to will have no water intrusion. Over the last 9 years the boat was sailed twice a month and kept on a trailer and we get almost zero rain in Arizona followed up by extremely dry weather. I just needed to inquire if the new cam cleat holes do not line up with the old ones how to seal up the old ones, Any reason I could fill the whole hole with Marinetex :confused: or some caulking and then Marinetex.

I do want to put a two line rope clutch in front of the winch used for the main and spinnaker halyards since there is some cheapo plastic clutch there...
 

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I have used MarineTex with a skosh of universal colorant to match closely. The MT is putty-like enuff to fill un-backed holes pretty well. Strictly cosmetic? Bevel, clean with acetone and fill away! :D
 

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On the dinghy-sized boats I sailed, we had cam cleats on the sheets. I really liked them, and had a hard time switching to a horn cleat when we got our C25. For some reason, on the Allmand, it really isn't as big of a problem. I can winch in and then cleat pretty quickly. If you do 2-3 figure 8's, you can release quickly while still getting a good "bite" on the line. In the end, it's a personal preference thing.

I can't speak to the sufficiency of filling with Marinetex or caulk. I think an issue might be the differences in expansion/contraction rates (coefficients of expansion).
 

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I installed Jam Cleats just behind the horn cleats and wrap the sheet once around the horn cleat then to the jam cleat.

For fixing the holes...if you can't if it, enhance it. You could use flat head screw with finish washer. Seal with some kind of sealer. You never know, you might want to reuse and add better jam cleat or horn cleat in that original position in the future.
 

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The line clutch should be forward of the winch, not aft of it. This allows you to use the same winch for both lines on the clutch.

You might want to think about how you'll use the spinnaker when short handed before settling on a halyard location. My spinnaker is in a sock (easier for small crews) and the sock control lines hang down from the masthead. Having the spinnaker halyard in the cockpit means that I need to run back and forth multiple times to deploy the spinnaker single handed. Having it at the mast means I go forward only once.

I've filled with MarineTex, but don't think that it bonds to the core as well as epoxy and it is hard to know if you are filling the hole 100%. Epoxy isn't much more work and is a better solution. Caulk is not a good solution. Getting water into the core is the best way to ruin a nice boat, and once it is in there it won't dry out.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I do want to put a two line rope clutch in front of the winch used for the main and spinnaker halyards since there is some cheapo plastic clutch there...
The line clutch should be forward of the winch, not aft of it. This allows you to use the same winch for both lines on the clutch.
I said in front...

ad the cheapo plastic clutch I was referring to I just learned is a jam cleat, thanks for teach me one more thing :laugher

I hate that little thing will replace with double rope clutch...I'm 99% sure would never try and fly spinnaker by myself, at least for quiet some time as I still pucker up when I roll out the job and pick up speed :eek:
 

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Even with a crew of 2 or 3 I think that the spinnaker halyard belongs at the mast. Without some advanced rigging you aren't going to end up flying a spinnaker without someone going to the foredeck at some point to launch or retrieve. Since someone is already up there you might as well have the halyard there.
 

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We ARE talking a Catalina 22 right?

Cam cleats for the jib sheets are fine, since this is a catalina the old steel cams will be wider than the new harken 150s (that you'll likely want)... There are fairleads for the top of the cams too, you'll likely want those as well. The Harken 150s I think we useful from 1/4" to 3/8" line... if you have original sized sheets from Catalina for the 22 you have 3/8", if you replaced them you likely have 5/16".

My Capri 25 has clam cleats for the jib sheets, and it makes it easy to uncleat from the high side (likely what you are trying to do)... Cam's would work too, but I'd consider THAT only without the fairleads (that way you can yank the sheet out and forgetaboutit....

One more thing they don't tell a lot of people single handing smaller boats... CROSS SHEET! On the Cat 22, by yourself. Run your genoa sheet to the winch, wrap around 1 time, then up to the high side winch (one time), then cleat it. This allows you to sit high side and release the genoa if it gets wild, without making it worse by diving low side to do it! Also while sitting at the tiller, you can grab the obvious sheet RIGHT in front of you, and lean back, and now you can "sweat the sheet" pulling in the line, and taking up the slack with the other hand. Thus it's easier to trim and release from the high-side.

Again consider clams for behind your winches, but if you go with cams (and I am considering this as well), make sure that releasing the line won't ever "accidentally" have it fall back into the cleat. My clams are DIRECTLY in line behind my winches and because of that, sometimes releasing the genoa the line falls directly in the clam, and bam! you are backwinded.

See here (ignore the battered old headsail) Several things going on here, note the clam cleats behind the winch (they stink for catching the line, so choose your position wisely), and I am cross sheeted in the picture (and by the way doing 7 knots upwind sitting lowside with the tiller pilot on):
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yes, it's a C22, the forces are much more minimal than the C27's and C30's I've been on.

I've played around with cross sheeting, I like it a lot. I've also been fooling around with one wrap around the winch and then holding the end in my hand to feel the wind forces and finding the sweet spot without being so obsessed with the wind vain.

maybe good clam cleats would work, there are a few cheap plastic ones on board that I don't like, maybe going with a higher quality aluminum one would be the trick.
 

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That lower winch you show in that picture, is that not a Jam Cleat? Are you calling the a clam cleat?

Just looked it up, I always thought it was called a jam cleat...my bad!

Looks like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other...
 

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Delta, I've made the same mistake, NO that is a clam, and clam-cleat is a brand (like Band-Aid or Elevator)

Here is a jam cleat:


Here's a clam branded one with a built-in roller fairlead:
 
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