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Moody 46
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Discussion Starter #1
Driving myself crazy. I love the look and feel of the Jeanneau49DS but can't decide if for some long passages (at least Atlantic) I should be more seriously looking at a Caliber 47 or a used Hylas 49. I am not fixed on any of the boat mentioned but as examples. I plan to spend about 500K. I have raced extensively including offshore but will be sailing with my wife who has only done coastal sailing in the great lakes. We plan to be living aboard for 3 to 5 years. If anyone has experience with both type boats I would love some help. Again I love the performance and look of say the 49DS for cruising but how will it sit when hove to? Thanks to all
 

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I don't understand why you will spend 500.000 on a Jeanneau, seriously.

For thet money, you should be able to get something way much better, even if it is used. Look at Halberg Rassy, Shipman50, yes, the Hylas, the IP, Sweden etc. (you can alnmost find a good used swan for that value).
If I was to spend that money on a boat to cruise for 5 years, the Jeanneau would be at the bottom of my list.

However, if it was for small weekend cruises down and up the coast, then it would be on the bottom of top 10 list, but not 1st..

These boats are "too commercial", they are made to sell easy, but not a "life" boat, even the bigger ones. They lack the real "cruise hardness" of other boats. And you can see how light the materials are.

By the way, everyone I know that has recent Jeanneau complaints of water getting in thru hull ports, the hull windows being the big culprit, etc.
 

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I agree. For that kind of money committed to a blue water cruiser there are better opportunites. A Stevens 47 for example.
 

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Moody 46
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Discussion Starter #4
got me thinking

I guess the lure of the new is just so tempting. There seem to be a lot of people cruising out there in the production boats. My gut tells me you folks are however correct.
 

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jones2r said:
ps: This guy right below here knows his stuff. But I have an idea the boat he's pushing goes for more than 500K.

pps: If you have any French ancestry, you'll want to keep it to yourself.
Thanks for the vote of confidence!!! Now you're putting a lot of pressure on me and I don't respond well to pressure!!!:D

As far as the Shipman goes, Its semi-custom, and the 50 my friend bought was exactly $500.000!! Built in Croatia (cheap labour). Very very good.

If I spent those 500K, it would all go to the Croatians!! But again, I like speed 80% and 20% cruise!:D

Yes, keep the "water hose" frogs away from me.
 

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Ortho,

I am usually the discenting opinion on production boats, etc. First of all, there is nothign wrong with a Jeauneau or other production vessels. But like Giu, it would be a cold day in H*** before I paid 500k for anything Jeauneau made (or beneteau or catalina or IP). There really are better boats made. Hylas is one of my personal favorites, including Hallberg-Rassy and some older boats that you could get cheaper, like Mason and Bristol. Valiant is a top notch offshore boat with I would guess more offshore miles under their collective keels than any other boat manufacturer. I know the people that make them, they are good.

Now, all that being said:

How are you REALLY going to use the boat?? You crossing the Pacific, micronesia? The Atlantic multiple times? Everyone always throws up these "BUY THE VALIANT OR PACIFIC SEACRAFT!!" blah, blah ,blah, blah... and most of those boats sit in the marina after three or four uses and never go further than the first marker becuase a 50 Valiant is SMALLER inside than my 40 foot Catalina. THat is why I won't buy one. It is like a shoe box... an armor plated (and gold, depending on your checkbook) shoebox, but still cramped and small compared to what is termed (and should be termed) more of a coastal cruiser.

If you have not done a lot of offshore work, realize this: Everything is island hopping. No one wants to sit out at sea. THat is just a means to an end. If your true destinations are unlimited cruising everywhere in the world with maxiumum safety and you really want to sail it yourself, then a Jeauneau, Catalina, Beneteau (and sorry guys, even IP) is not the right boat for you. Go drop an easy 500k on a Valiant 50 and get ready to be cramped but sail in utter safety. If HOWEVER your true and honest goals are the islands, no more than an occasional 5 days at sea on good weather windows, etc, get a coastal cruiser. You will be more comfortable and might actually enjoy living down below on your boat without having to sit in your wife's lap. You will save a lot of money for outfitting and bars.

If after you have done the islands and everything there is to do on this continent (including s america), and you really want to go to the Med on your boat or Australia... just pay Dockwise yacht transport 20-30k (maybe less) and they will ship it over there on a very nice ship and in 2 weeks you are off sailing - versus getting the crap beat out of you in the Atlantic and taking more of a risk with your life(s). You can sail there to your hearts content, then pay them to ship it to Australia for you and you should be able to hit everything in that hemisphere with any of the production boats too.

Now THAT is enjoying cruising. You just can't sit at the dock and tell everyone that you sailed your boat around the world. But you did see the world on your boat... did it safely... and for a WHOLE lot less money.

Just my thoughts.

- CD

PS Before you committ to a Atlantic crossing or Pacific crossing, also suggest taking you and the wife out in 15-20 foot seas for a few days offshore. It AINT fun... I am here to tell you.

PSS The heack with what everyone says, buy the boat YOU AND THE WIFE feel comfortable on.
 

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One other thing, slightly mentioned above, you can take a coastal cruiser offshore. You just need to watch your weather windows closer and you will be limited by fuel (not water, imagine you will have a water maker). Add a diesel bladder and some modifications and you can seriously increase that. Large solar array and wind gens will extend it even further. There are design charachteristics that make a "Valiant" better for offshore (much better, actually). But many of those same design charachteristics also make it a lot less comfortable live aboard.

You will spend 99% of your time at anchor, 1% going. Where is that 1%? That is what you have to decide.
 

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Moody 46
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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks all

I really appreciate all the input. I previously owned an S&S, PJ custom 40 one ton and loved it. Pure race boat in it's day. I have been a helmsman on a SC70 and on many smaller boats. Have sailed offshore 6-700 miles and through 45kts and 25ft seas but always crewed and racing. Have raced over 35years but new to cruising. I want a comfortable liveaboard with reasonable sea safety but can't tolerate a slug so boats like the IP are off the radar. Suggestions so far very helpful, thanks all
 

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Ortho,

Good to know you realize what you are getting into. You never know off the cusp whether someone knows what offshore really means. I cannot tell you the number of stories of "bluewater boats" (I hate using that term) that we have seen get purchased, outfitted with enough electronics and gear to make the US Navy jealous, and then sit in the marina because it was either uncomfortable as a live aboard or they hated being offshore. I don't care what boat you are in, 20 foot seas is 20 foot seas and just is not fun!! A Valiant does not make them feel like sailing on a lake! All boats ride the mountains.

Jeff_H is our resident boat expert, without a doubt. He can steer you in the right direction. Given the comfortable liveaboard and your budget, here is what I would buy (assuming you really are going offshore a fair amount):

Hallberg Rassy, probably a used 40. This is my wife's favorite boat, second to a Hylas. It is not my favorite, but very sea worthy, ok liveaboard, but renowend reputation. Here is an example:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1426147&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1035&url=

Taswell, especailly a 49. I have spent a fair amount of time on these. Nice boats. Cockpit is a little tight for me, but it makes up for it down below and very comfortable liveaboard. These are fairly custom, so you really have to watch how they put in the bulkheads for accesibility to key components, especially engine. Here is an example:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatDetails.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&currencyid=100&boat_id=1542694&checked_boats=1542694&back=/core/listing/cache/searchResults.jsp?hmid=0&sm=3&enid=0&luom=126&currencyid=100&toLength=50&cit=true&ftid=0&ps=30&fromLength=40&man=taswell&slim=quick&searchtype=

Valiant 50. I have spent a fair amount of time on these too. Top notch offshore boat. Not the best liveaboard, though many people I have spoken to have not complained. you can get a fairly well equipped model in the 500s. This is definitely a go anywhere boat. If you are interested in a Valiant, PM me and I will get you in contact with them and a good contact at Valiant.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1599229&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=3304&url=

Mason. My second personal favorite. Same guys that make the Nordhavn. Very nice liveaboard, go anywhere. Great Reputation. This would be one of my top choices.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1589753&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=3584&url=

Hylas. Of course. Great liveaboard, great offshore boat. Semi custom, so there may be some differences between them, but not like a Taswell where they will let you be much more creative. Very well respected. This is just one example. 500k might be a bit low for one of these. You may have to go with 49 versus a 54.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1418789&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1921&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatFullDetails.jsp?boat_id=1608353&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=61891&url=

Those would be my choices, if I were you. Most of my picks harbor more around a comfortable liveaboard and good offshore boat versus an awesome offshore boat and an ok liveaboard. There is a distinction and a compromise. You should be able to get most of those pretty close to 500k. Make sure you hold some money back for outfitting and updating. Take care.

- CD
 

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CD,

That was a trully good post.

Believe it or not you almost (I said almost) made me want ot buy that Mason or even the 49 Hylas. But again, I said almost.

Hey you $500.000 guy, Orthomartin.

Buy any of these two, and send a $200 to CD so he has a nice lobster dinner, for helping you out. Jeanneau......pfffff
 

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Giu,

Thank ya. I don't understand why you keep putting down a Jeaunea. I saw your pictures. Isn't Giulietta a Jeaunea?? Bet you just scraped off the pretty litttle tag. Shame on you. If you were trying to impersonate a yacht, you should have at least used a Catalina so you would be marveled at by the rest of the sailing community.

- CD

PS Giu, aren't you surprised I did not include Catalina in that list above of remarkable offshore blue-water boats?? I thought for sure I would get some comment from you on that!!!! Of course, everyone knows Catalinas are really more of the Cruiser-Racers which is why I am Americas CUp bound, Baby!!
 

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CD, look, lets be honest. The guy has $500.00 to spend on a yacht. (and I say YACHT, not white-floating-thing-with-a-mast-that-actually-sometimes-moves-with-the-wind-named-after-an-island-catalina-thing).:D

Catalinas are OFF BUDGET for him (on the low end of the sheet!!EHEHEHE):D :D

OK as for my boat, how did you find out we were copying the hull from another boat??? But you were wrong, we copied it from a Boston Whaler, not some French thing!!

By the way, I read about your catalina in the ACC. They are using it as a rounding buoy, as it sails!!!! They will paint your boat orange, are you aware of that?? The catalina was the only thing that floats that is slower than an anchored buoy!!:D :D
 

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Hey, that is one of my tactics! Paint it orange so they think it is a buoy... that all keep chasing me! I win.

Ahh, I am soo smart.
 

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With that kind of budget why not a used Swan or Hinckley? I am partial to Swans as they are built like tanks but are fast. There are certainly some around in the 47 to 53 foot range in your price range.
 

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I'd take what cruisingdad sez to the bank and back, he's spot on.

then, look at this video, & have your jeanneau rep tell you he'll go with you on that trip, and cover your boat with his insurance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp45fL0u0QU

personal opinion, I'll take a seaslug and arrive one day later (one kt per hour is ONLY 24kts per day) and a lot more rested.

However, your mileage may vary, and thats what makes the world go round. (no way on gods green earth would I lay out 500k on a frog boat)
 
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