SailNet Community banner

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am looking at purchasing my first sailboat. I am working to find a slip where I live and have mostly figured out how much, where etc. I am admittedly a newb when it comes to sail boats. I learned to sail on a Beneteau First 40, unfortunately can not afford a 100k boat. I am looking for an older 70's or 80's sail boat but am not familiar with which brands / models to look at. I would want it to be 30-35 in length as i do want to take family out and do overnights. Being that the First was a super fun boat to sail, I want something that isn't a cow in water but is both comfortable but also an exciting sail.

So far I have been looking at C&C 35 both MKII and MKIII - these seem like a good balance between size and fun sailing.

What other brands / models would you recommend?
 

·
bell ringer
Joined
·
4,758 Posts
The brand matters nowhere/little as much as the current condition of the boat. Any 70s/80s boat in condition is a good boat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Tartan 34C. Well designed, well built, sporty, good comfort ratio, and prettier than most. There is also an association and Facebook groups for support. Tartan still can sell you parts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
I would advise that before you ask for recommendations on specific boats, that you decide what are your wants/needs for the boat. Here are some of the points that fit into my personal boat quest:
- Budget – initial purchase and all-in budget
- Where will the boat be used – inland lakes, coastal cruising, off-shore (bluewater) cruising
- How will the boat be used – daysailer, weekender, week-long, long term cruiser
- Crew – single-handed or at least one other crew member
- Requirements for significant other (if applicable) – what amenities will make others like the boat and be more like to sail with you
- Tankage requirements – water, fuel, waste
- Layout of the boat
- Ease of replacement of chainplates and tanks.
- Acceptable age of the boat

When I go through my personal needs/wants, I get
- 50K – 60K all-in budget (this would be to purchase the boat, get her home, registered her in my home state, and take care of any immediate safety needs).
- Boat will be use for coastal cruising.
- Boat will be use as a daysailer, for weekend cruising, and 2-3 week cruises.
- I hope to sail with my wife, but the boat will be set up for single-handed ease with a roller jib and in-mast main. It will also have an autopilot.
- Significant other requirements – air conditioning (if possible) and walk-through transom.
- Tankage requirements suitable for week-long cruising
- Layout with two staterooms.
- Relatively easy access to the chainplates and the tanks to replace when needed.
- Age of the boat. I prefer something about 15 - 20 years old.

So in my specific case, I’m looking at a 2002-2007 Hunter 306/31/326/33. Again, this is the boat that best fits my wants/needs. There are many items on my want/need list that others don't have on their lists. In addition, there may be things on their lists that are not on my list.

My recommendation is that you go through your own wants/needs (this may take some time and requirement multiple threads for advice), then ask for recommendations, then ask questions of specific boats/models.

There is no short-cut if buying the right boat the first time. But it beats the heck out of buying a boat and then deciding its not right for ones wants/needs, selling it, and buying another boat.

Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks, I will go through the list of questions and update my reply.

All in i probably don't want to spend over 30-35k. Been looking at boats in the 20k range leaving 10k for maintenance, licensing etc.
Boat will be for coastal Cruising
Boat will be primarily a Daysailer but i also want to do weekends and eventually 1-2 week long trips.
Will be primarily sailing with my Girlfriend but will also try and set the boat up so I can sail alone but that is not required at the start. Will be taking parents and family out regularly as well. Girlfriend is most excited about multi-day trips out. Roller Jib, Cruise Control is a must. Would like to have an anchor, electric windlass is a plus.
Wants, standing rigging to have been replaced in the last 10 years.
There are interiors that i like better than others. I do not like having the table in the center, I like it offset that can be lowered to make a larger sleeping area.
Tankage requirements suitable for week long cruising.
Age of boat, i would go as far back as the 80's if the boat is in good condition.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,766 Posts
We have a C&C 35 MKIII. someone gave you good advice on the. Finding a boat in good condition is most important. Narrow down to 3-5 models and start looking. The Tartan 34c is well built. The C&C 35 will sail circles around it. Both have good reputations and followings.

I bought Haleakula 24 yers ago....a 1983. I narrowed to between her, a Tartan 37 and a 36 Sabre. She was in the best condition. We cruise her to the LI Sound and Newport most years from the Chesapeake . We are currently on the Chessie in the middle of a 17 day trip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
We have a C&C 35 MKIII. someone gave you good advice on the. Finding a boat in good condition is most important. Narrow down to 3-5 models and start looking. The Tartan 34c is well built. The C&C 35 will sail circles around it. Both have good reputations and followings.

I bought Haleakula 24 yers ago....a 1983. I narrowed to between her, a Tartan 37 and a 36 Sabre. She was in the best condition. We cruise her to the LI Sound and Newport most years from the Chesapeake . We are currently on the Chessie in the middle of a 17 day trip.
Thanks, i plan in cruising mostly in the long island sound myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
also to rate good condition should I trust a survey or are there other ways to verify "good condition" I should be looking in to? i know i am buying an old boat, i'm looking forward to projects. but also don't want a lemon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
If you haven't yet, it might be worthwhile to go to YachtWorld and search on some of your needs/wants and see what come up. This would give you a feel of the boats that are out there, ballpark prices, information about engines/tankage, and lots of pictures of boat layouts.

There are some great, older, boats on the market. If I were looking for a bluewater boat, I definitely would be looking at an older boat, and planning on a refit.

Things I personally definitely don't like in older boats are cored hulls (yes, there are some boats with these), chainplates that can't be inspected/replaced without taking apart the interior, and tanks that can't be replaced without tearing up the soles (cockpit floors).

Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
If you haven't yet, it might be worthwhile to go to YachtWorld and search on some of your needs/wants and see what come up. This would give you a feel of the boats that are out there, ballpark prices, information about engines/tankage, and lots of pictures of boat layouts.

There are some great, older, boats on the market. If I were looking for a bluewater boat, I definitely would be looking at an older boat, and planning on a refit.

Things I personally definitely don't like in older boats are cored hulls (yes, there are some boats with these), chainplates that can't be inspected/replaced without taking apart the interior, and tanks that can't be replaced without tearing up the soles (cockpit floors).

Jim
Thanks i found the C&C on yachtworld so good solid advice there. How can i tell whether chain plates and tanks are easy to get to?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
363 Posts
Lots of good advice here already. Condition, condition, condition should be top of your list. On the topic of Beneteaus, a First 345 might be of interest to you. i looked for one (never found one here in Seattle that looked good) before I bought my current boat. They seem to fall maybe into the high end of your price range, but in any case i'd strongly recommend you pay a little more for a boat that is in good order rather than "saving" money on one that needs a lot of work.

For rating condition, a survey is a minimum requirement on something that big. A few hundred there can save you a ton later. If you can find someone who's been through this to go take a look at candidates with you, you can probably weed out some problem boats even before paying for a survey.

And don't worry too much about the salon sleeping configuration. on a boat that size, you'll find you end up sleeping in the aft cabin anyway (having to move stuff & drop the table at night is a PIA). adequate tankage, storage etc. for the way you plan to use it is much more of a factor IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
If you haven't yet, it might be worthwhile to go to YachtWorld and search on some of your needs/wants and see what come up. This would give you a feel of the boats that are out there, ballpark prices, information about engines/tankage, and lots of pictures of boat layouts.

There are some great, older, boats on the market. If I were looking for a bluewater boat, I definitely would be looking at an older boat, and planning on a refit.

Things I personally definitely don't like in older boats are cored hulls (yes, there are some boats with these), chainplates that can't be inspected/replaced without taking apart the interior, and tanks that can't be replaced without tearing up the soles (cockpit floors).

Jim
Lots of good advice here already. Condition, condition, condition should be top of your list. On the topic of Beneteaus, a First 345 might be of interest to you. i looked for one (never found one here in Seattle that looked good) before I bought my current boat. They seem to fall maybe into the high end of your price range, but in any case i'd strongly recommend you pay a little more for a boat that is in good order rather than "saving" money on one that needs a lot of work.

For rating condition, a survey is a minimum requirement on something that big. A few hundred there can save you a ton later. If you can find someone who's been through this to go take a look at candidates with you, you can probably weed out some problem boats even before paying for a survey.

And don't worry too much about the salon sleeping configuration. on a boat that size, you'll find you end up sleeping in the aft cabin anyway (having to move stuff & drop the table at night is a PIA). adequate tankage, storage etc. for the way you plan to use it is much more of a factor IMO.
One of my biggest struggles is that I am new to the east coast, well not that new, 3 years. like you I am from Seattle. I have not me anyone in Boston or now in New Haven, CT that have been avid sailors so it'd been hard to find an "expert" or even "knowledgeable salty dog" who can explore boats with me and whack me upside the head when i fall in love with the wrong boat.

Hence why I am on here getting internet advice :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,644 Posts
To try to answer your original question, sounds like you are looking for a racer/cruiser that's on the performance end of that spectrum. C&C certainly fits that description as does a Bene First or many J Boats. Tartan and Sabre are known for making good quality boats and ones like the Tartan 34-2 and Sabre 34 mk2 are good performers with nice interiors.

As has been said, with boats over 30 years old, condition is everything.
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
11,766 Posts
T34 is a really good boat so is the 37 :)

:ship-captain:
You find Tartans great quality if in good condition. In terms of speed.....average but not slow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,644 Posts
Big difference between the Tartan 34C and the 34-2. The 34C is much slower (over 40 seconds a mile under PHRF) and has less space below. The 34C is a pretty boat, but not the performance oriented racer/cruiser the OP seems to be looking for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,911 Posts
So what are the PHRF ratings of these boats? Isn't that how you would compare how "fast or slow they are?"... sort of apples to apples way of evaluating a boat's speed rating.

The baseline is PHRF 0 and positive numbers means the number of seconds a boat is slower than PHRF 0 in completing a mile.

PHRF New England - Handicapping - Base Handicaps
So a

Catalina 36 is 138
C&C is 129
Contest36s is 138
Ericson 36 is 108
Hunter 36 is 132
Sabre 36CB is 129
Tartan 3500 is 135

So this amounts to a range of 20 seconds between the fastest and the slowest with most being within 6 seconds of one another.

This doesn't account for all the factors which effect speed... sails, bottom, weight...

So for a 20 mile sail it seems like it's less than a few minutes of difference between the few boats I listed. This doesn't seem to be a "determining" factor for a cruising boat.

Or am I misunderstanding something?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
Big difference between the Tartan 34C and the 34-2. The 34C is much slower (over 40 seconds a mile under PHRF) and has less space below. The 34C is a pretty boat, but not the performance oriented racer/cruiser the OP seems to be looking for.
All true, but the Comfort Ratio of the 34C is 33% better. It is more sea-kindly. This is more important if coastal cruising (which Krystian1 indicated was his plan). Every boat is a series of compromised and you have to find the right mix for your needs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
The Brutal Truth of the matter is that you are going to be buying a set of projects no matter which boat you wind up buying especially in your stated price range of 30-35k. All boats are holes in the water that you have to throw money at. The Bigger the boat the bigger the hole. Just saying you may be able to get more bang for your buck by going smaller .... say 28-30' foot range which will probably get you a considerably newer boat in better condition. Catalina 28 MK2, Pearson 28-2, Cal 28-2 for example. If you are stuck on the bigger boat the Cal 33-2 is definitely worth a look if you can find one.
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top