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I have never asked a crew member to pay for anything themselves, including liquor, as they are helping me do the job of moving the boat..
Please educate me a little on a legal point. I was once told that crew coming on board and providing nothing (no food, drinks, money for fuel, etc) are considered volunteer guests and take on the risk of sailing themselves. However, if they provide any sort of compensation (like food, drinks, money for fuel) then they are considered paying customers so the skipper must be licensed, the skipper takes all the risk and is open to be sued should something happen. When traveling to regattas, I make it a point to provide all drinks, food, transportation expenses, rooms and anything else necessary to ensure my crew falls into the guest category. Of course, the best course of action is not to invite anyone that would sue you in the first place.

Was I wrongly informed?

Thanks in advance.
 

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Please educate me a little on a legal point. I was once told that crew coming on board and providing nothing (no food, drinks, money for fuel, etc) are considered volunteer guests and take on the risk of sailing themselves. However, if they provide any sort of compensation (like food, drinks, money for fuel) then they are considered paying customers so the skipper must be licensed, the skipper takes all the risk and is open to be sued should something happen. When traveling to regattas, I make it a point to provide all drinks, food, transportation expenses, rooms and anything else necessary to ensure my crew falls into the guest category. Of course, the best course of action is not to invite anyone that would sue you in the first place.

Was I wrongly informed?

Thanks in advance.
Makes sense.
If you takes your mom sailing and feed her, you need to be licensed.
Sure...
 

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ASA and PSIA Instructor
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Please educate me a little on a legal point. I was once told that crew coming on board and providing nothing (no food, drinks, money for fuel, etc) are considered volunteer guests and take on the risk of sailing themselves. However, if they provide any sort of compensation (like food, drinks, money for fuel) then they are considered paying customers so the skipper must be licensed, the skipper takes all the risk and is open to be sued should something happen. When traveling to regattas, I make it a point to provide all drinks, food, transportation expenses, rooms and anything else necessary to ensure my crew falls into the guest category. Of course, the best course of action is not to invite anyone that would sue you in the first place.



Was I wrongly informed?



Thanks in advance.
Yes. Crew prorated contributions to actual expenses is not compensation.


Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

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Please educate me a little on a legal point. I was once told that crew coming on board and providing nothing (no food, drinks, money for fuel, etc) are considered volunteer guests and take on the risk of sailing themselves. However, if they provide any sort of compensation (like food, drinks, money for fuel) then they are considered paying customers so the skipper must be licensed, the skipper takes all the risk and is open to be sued should something happen. When traveling to regattas, I make it a point to provide all drinks, food, transportation expenses, rooms and anything else necessary to ensure my crew falls into the guest category. Of course, the best course of action is not to invite anyone that would sue you in the first place.

Was I wrongly informed?

Thanks in advance.
I think this is current

Section 2101 of title 46 (5a) defines “consideration” as an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary (fancy attorney word for money) payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.” Additionally, employees or business clients that have not contributed for their carriage, and are carried for morale or entertainment purposes, are not considered as an exchange of consideration.

Bottom line: If you are a recreational boater, you are allowed to share expenses for a day on the water. Just don’t make payment mandatory if someone wants a boat ride.
https://boatsafe.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/do-i-need-a-captains-license/
 
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Captain Obvious
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Really???????????????

Got a link to that one?

I see rentals about USD $500 per month.

If you can see it at $100 per month I would be interested.

https://www.satphone.co.uk/rent/

https://www.globaltelesat.co.uk/rent/phone-rental

The guy I spoke to is in NYC., its an Iridium phone
Don Jimenez
And I was wrong about the price - it was $199 for a month - just checked, its the same price. And because I am local - I was picking it up and returning it to the store. https://www.geofone.net/order-forms/satellite-phone-rental-order-forms-iridium-thuraya

https://www.geofone.net/

Don Jimenez

GF LOGO 2

One Union Square West

Suite 510

New York , New York

10003

1 212 532 2112
 

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How many minutes does that include? How much data? Which device?
Have found phones are cheap. They get you on data and/or minutes. That’s true for satellite or out of country cellphone chips.
Now a days would be suspect of any voyaging captain who hasn’t set up suitable offshore comm on his own. Can’t think of a friend without some form of appropriate set of devices. Do increasingly see people forgoing SSB but not the other stuff to at least the extent of some level of redundancy. I don’t have a InReach. I’m pleased when crew brings one along or an extra epirb, Spot, sat phone etc. On the other side I won’t crew on an offshore boat that doesn’t have adequate comm and nav gear. I would also wonder what else is sketchy.
 

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The guy I spoke to is in NYC., its an Iridium phone
Don Jimenez
And I was wrong about the price - it was $199 for a month - just checked, its the same price. And because I am local - I was picking it up and returning it to the store. https://www.geofone.net/order-forms/satellite-phone-rental-order-forms-iridium-thuraya

https://www.geofone.net/

Don Jimenez

GF LOGO 2

One Union Square West

Suite 510

New York , New York

10003

1 212 532 2112

If the cost is +/- $200 for one month, it's a good deal for a delivery or a passage from say NE to the Caribbean. I think it would be prudent to have on board and it's not going to break the budget.
 

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If I double bag, will bagels and tortillas last a bit or will they get soggy ,quickly, no matter what? Chocolate stash will be huge, the question will be if I have the control to NOT make it my primary food source?
A trick I learned long ago, that I truly believe works, is to store bread, chips, bagels, etc in the microwave. I assume it's an air exchange thing.

That said, bagels wouldn't last a passage I don't think. Tortilla chips do reasonably well, if you roll the top over and clip it closed to reduce air exchange. My wife just crumples the top and it drives me crazy. :) Bring several smaller bags, so you can open them incrementally. The unopened will be unaffected.
 

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Was I wrongly informed?

Thanks in advance.
As mentioned, crew can pay their proportion of variable costs, without violating commercial requirements for the Captain and vessel.

I'm more familiar with the same provision in aviation, where proportionate cost sharing is also allowed. These cost must include only fuel and fees for the trip. You can't charge a portion of your hangar or insurance, for example. The real key in aviation is that everyone aboard has to have been planning the exact same trip for the exact same purpose. IOW, the pilot can't agree to fly someone to their destination for their proportionate cost of the fuel. He has to have intended to be going there anyway.

There is another compensation concept that one might be weary over. The notion that one is receiving experience alone is considered compensation by the FAA. One is not allowed to accept that compensation, without a commercial license, which is more the burden of one's crew in the OPs case. I'm not sure how the USCG sees this point.
 

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I have never done what you will be doing. So take my advice with a pinch of salt.
I have crewed, I have skippered, on a paid or commercial basis. I was dealing with a well known reputable company so I trusted the situation.
I have never crewed or found crew casually.

Even with a reputable company. I carried my own cash or in later life credit card.with sufficient funds to get me home. JIK it all goes pear shaped. Never did.
If I was doing it on the basis you are I would be double sure to have my own get out of jail card, JIK.

Part of sailing as paying crew on a boat. For me I knew the company and it’s rep so I trusted the Skipper. Trusted the boat, based on trusting the company. Skippers rep with company was a big deal. I don’t do sail with people I don’t know. Other than recognized business relationship.

Good luck enjoy the trip hopefully it will all go well. With none of my concerns coming up.
 

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I think this is current

Section 2101 of title 46 (5a) defines “consideration” as an economic benefit, inducement, right, or profit including pecuniary (fancy attorney word for money) payment accruing to an individual, person, or entity, but not including a voluntary sharing of the actual expenses of the voyage, by monetary contribution or donation of fuel, food, beverage, or other supplies.” Additionally, employees or business clients that have not contributed for their carriage, and are carried for morale or entertainment purposes, are not considered as an exchange of consideration.

Bottom line: If you are a recreational boater, you are allowed to share expenses for a day on the water. Just don’t make payment mandatory if someone wants a boat ride.
https://boatsafe.wordpress.com/2010/02/26/do-i-need-a-captains-license/
Even more helpful. Thank you very much.
 

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Please educate me a little on a legal point. I was once told that crew coming on board and providing nothing (no food, drinks, money for fuel, etc) are considered volunteer guests and take on the risk of sailing themselves. However, if they provide any sort of compensation (like food, drinks, money for fuel) then they are considered paying customers so the skipper must be licensed, the skipper takes all the risk and is open to be sued should something happen. When traveling to regattas, I make it a point to provide all drinks, food, transportation expenses, rooms and anything else necessary to ensure my crew falls into the guest category. Of course, the best course of action is not to invite anyone that would sue you in the first place.

Was I wrongly informed?

Thanks in advance.
Sorry for the delay, but we've been on charter, far beyond the internet.
Strictly speaking, any contributions from those sailing on someone's boat, within US waters are considered payment for services rendered, by the USCG. However, it is rarely policed and mostly if it is someone taking business from local vendors, who will report the offending 'captain', who is usually unlicensed as well.
In my case, most of my crew have been doing ocean passages and deliveries far beyond the jurisdiction of the USCG.
 

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Hello, I've landed my first gig crewing from Ensenada, BC to La Paz BC. Provided I don't get sick or injured in the next few weeks, this will be a 2-3 week journey. I've researched the Captain as best I can, I feel confident in the journey and my skills and ability (well for what my experience level is). This will be my first time on an extended sail and offshore. Any tips or advice regarding this endeavor that you would recommend? I would call this stage 3 in my goal of setting sail with the family, I look forward to learning as much as possible to gain confidence in this arena and most importantly want to return to my wife and 10 y/o son (I have no doubt I will). Thanks
From a different perspective written by a boat owner..an interesting article which appeared in last months ‘Blue Water Sailing’ vol. 8 2018 titled: “Taking on Crew for a Long Passage”.. if someone has the capability/availability to copy and past..some may find it of interest...
 

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In terms of returning may want to check out who’s your fellow crew members. I always share crew information after getting permission to do so. If your captain doesn’t it says something about him. The thread about the crew jumping off the boat and suiciding is a trip I wouldn’t want to sign on for.
 

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The thread about the crew jumping off the boat and suiciding is a trip I wouldn’t want to sign on for.
Are you saying that you think that captain is in any way responsible for the events that occurred, from what we have heard so far? How would you deal with the same situation, keeping in mind that the upset crew member could be a danger to your other crew members?
Just asking to spark a conversation, not criticizing at all.
 

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Just pointing out the safety and pleasure of a voyage depends on all the crew as well as the captain. Folks talked about vetting the captain which is wise. But think vetting the other people on board and the boat should be included. Some of my most unpleasant trips have been due to other crew.
Just on a personal level if you like the folks on the boat before you leave it’s more likely you will when you’re done with the trip.
Have made some good friends that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
Since this thread drifted way off course I'll get'er back on track.

For the record; Tour complete! It went well. My first offshore voyage, several overnight passages, night watches, night sails, too strong wind, not enough wind, confused seas, flat calm seas and eight too twelve foot seas, dreaming crazy dreams, whales, sea turtles, dolphins, flying fish and squid. It was a pretty complete package.

I showed up in Ensenada, Baja, Mexico on a Wednesday afternoon for my first face to face meeting with the Captain/ Boat owner. I had seen a picture of him on-line while doing my research into who the hell I was leaving my family for for 3 weeks to sail 1200 miles with in which I had never done. He was pretty much exactly how I pictured him via the picture...It would be nearly a week before the boat projects were complete, the other crew member arrived, the boat put back in the water and the seas and winds conspired to conform to our plan. During this time on the hard I helped with installing a new roller fuller for the jib and other little projects. Hanging around a boat yard for a week you meet some interesting characters, hear some intriguing stories and get to ask lots and lots of questions regarding boat designs and features. I felt as if I had learned a ton before we ever set sail. Just to be sure you know, this wasn't my first time sailing, I've got a WWP 19 and had a Catalina Capri 14 that I started with just 2 years ago after the brilliant idea of re-kindling this relationship with free wind occurred.

I had grown up on the Chesapeake Bay wind surfing as a kid and sailing a Catamaran and a little sun flower in North Carolinas' Currituck Sound at our families cottage. As a life long surfer I had the dream of which many have of traveling the world on my boat and surfing perfect waves and absorbing local customs and cultures in order to expand my understanding and appreciation for my brief visit on this planet. Well after damn near 26 years of rock climbing and messing with ropes I yearned to get back to the sea and things that could provide new adventure and meaning in my life, now, my families life too! Sailing would be it, we will take this adventure on as a party of 3, they agreed (hahahaha) and hence the Capri 14 began this journey where I find myself at 2 am some 50 miles from land on a 1973 Cascade 38....

This was however my first time at sea staring the unknown straight in its face. Finally leaving Ensenada with the co-operation of Mother Nature the Tuesday after I had first arrived the decreasing seas were still 8-12' winds light in the morning forecasted to increase to around 10-15 kts. or so, 'or so' would be the common denominator. We motored out of Ensenada passing between Todos Santos island(s) and La Bufadora. This would be the one and only time I got sick. I think it was due to an empty stomach filled with coffee, pop tart, an apple a dose of diesel fumes combined with 8-12' seas and a dash more of diesel exhaust. I heaved too, took some dramamine and was ready for some saltines a little while later. A 2 night passage ensued where on the third morning we would be beating into Bahia Tortuga thus the first leg was in the books. We spent that night and the following at anchorage. On night 1 the Capt. stayed in a hotel on land and the other crew and myself had the boat and the beers to ourselves! That gave us time to discuss certain demeanors and such as my judgements of character are pretty damn spot on. Fortunately for me the original 'other' crew member bailed last minute and his replacement was a younger guy by 30 years (not from me but from the original crew who bailed) who I hit it off with and we would be each others sounding board when there would be communication issues from the top. Like what is organic and what is not! Wrapping my head around what types of organics I would put in my compost pile at home versus what type of organics a person may discard in the ocean are two completely different definitions. It didn't require a masters dissertation to convey these differences. The communication improved. Two more nights to Magdalena Bay. Two more nights at anchorage, a provisioning run into Puerto San Carlos, mainly for water and more fishing lures. Only ever caught a bunch of Bonito, threw those guys back, as we were chasing giants. Never happened. One more overnight passage to Cabo San Lucas. A night in the marina where showers and laundry were done. I'd have to say the 'Baja Naval' marina up in Ensenada had way better showers and nobody once tried to sell us a bunch of cocaine or offer us trips to the moon. Get me the f*$% out of here!! Second night at anchor off the beach, east of all the time share/ condo mayhem. The northers were forecast to be nil rounding the east cape and making our way to La Paz. We had a brief morning sail past San Jose Del Cabo followed by a long day of motoring. We opted for a short 6 hour bivy in Ensenada de los Muertos, Cove of the Dead. I dreamed that night as if I had ate too much acid back in the 80's, geez! What with the name of that place? As the nights we spent at anchor in 'Man of War Cove' up in Mag Bay were capped full of crazy dreams as well. Coincidence? Awoke at 3am and motored all the way to La Paz, giant margarita ordered!

Great experience and good times, shopping for the next boat and planning our escape!
 
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