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formerly 'BoatyardBoy'
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently bought a Kaufman 47 sailboat and will be changing the 14 thru hulls and seacocks. There are flush mount fittings on there now and I want to replace with the same thing. Groco has flush mount fittings but the are for over waterline use. I called them and they said that's what they recommend but they can be used below as long as "you know what your doing".

That being said, does anyone know of anywhere they sell bronze flush mount fittings?

As a precursor, I don't want marelon.

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Super Moderator
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Good luck with this search, especially on a boat possibly built in Taiwan.....

Problem is that years ago there were piles of companies making flush mount thru-hulls and they all varied in size and diameter of the head depending upon brand. Companies like Wilcox-Crittenden, and many others, are now long gone.. Many Taiwan built boats often used American fittings, like some Grand Banks etc., but then some Taiwan yards sourced stuff locally. These locally sourced fittings were usually not built to the same head shape or size as anything else. BTDT....

Today Spartan, Buck Algonquin and Groco are the only ones left that I know of still making a "quality" 85-5-5-5 bronze thru-hull fitting in flush mount.

You may want to be VERY, VERY careful in the extraction process. Then clean them up, inspect for corrosion, and re-use them. If they were good quality bronze to begin with it will be very likely they are in perfect shape.

I have a box of seacocks from the mid 1930's that came out of an old wooden boat during a re-fit in 2003 that are still in perfect working order after being in use for approx 70 years... They literally outlasted the hull.....
 

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Captain S/V Triumph
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As an additional thought:

Most racing sailors have learned the value of a smooth bottom. Ironically, cruising sailors can benefit at least as much from the creation of a low-resistance bottom as racing sailors, although you rarely see a cruising or daysailing boat with a bottom to match that of a good racing boat. Why handicap a cruising boat, which is probably already underpowered in light air, by having a bottom which almost guarantees reduced performance in the lightest conditions? Almost any tub can be driven to hull speed with 20 knots of breeze, even if it has foot-long grass and an acre of barnacles on the bottom. But it takes a smooth bottom to help it along in a three knot zephyr.

You can begin along the path to a fast bottom by recessing or fairing in through hull fittings that protrude beyond the surface of the hull, particularly in the forward half of the boat. Typically, this means the head intake and discharge fittings.

Whether you decide to recess fittings or fair them in depends on the hull construction, the amount of money you want to spend, and the amount of time you want to spend.
 

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formerly 'BoatyardBoy'
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534 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Good luck with this search, especially on a boat possibly built in Taiwan.....

Problem is that years ago there were piles of companies making flush mount thru-hulls and they all varied in size and diameter of the head depending upon brand. Companies like Wilcox-Crittenden, and many others, are now long gone.. Many Taiwan built boats often used American fittings, like some Grand Banks etc., but then some Taiwan yards sourced stuff locally. These locally sourced fittings were usually not built to the same head shape or size as anything else. BTDT....

Today Spartan, Buck Algonquin and Groco are the only ones left that I know of still making a "quality" 85-5-5-5 bronze thru-hull fitting in flush mount.

You may want to be VERY, VERY careful in the extraction process. Then clean them up, inspect for corrosion, and re-use them. If they were good quality bronze to begin with it will be very likely they are in perfect shape.

I have a box of seacocks from the mid 1930's that came out of an old wooden boat during a re-fit in 2003 that are still in perfect working order after being in use for approx 70 years... They literally outlasted the hull.....
Alright, thanks I'll do my best to take them out carefully but no guarantees. But if there is a recessed/beveled hole already
there, I don't see why a new Groco or Buck(I found them thanks for the brand drop) wouldn't work in the same hole. It would be a matter of re bedding them with some inhouse made resin/glass puddy or 5200..

As an additional thought:

Most racing sailors have learned the value of a smooth bottom. Ironically, cruising sailors can benefit at least as much from the creation of a low-resistance bottom as racing sailors, although you rarely see a cruising or daysailing boat with a bottom to match that of a good racing boat. Why handicap a cruising boat, which is probably already underpowered in light air, by having a bottom which almost guarantees reduced performance in the lightest conditions? Almost any tub can be driven to hull speed with 20 knots of breeze, even if it has foot-long grass and an acre of barnacles on the bottom. But it takes a smooth bottom to help it along in a three knot zephyr.

You can begin along the path to a fast bottom by recessing or fairing in through hull fittings that protrude beyond the surface of the hull, particularly in the forward half of the boat. Typically, this means the head intake and discharge fittings.

Whether you decide to recess fittings or fair them in depends on the hull construction, the amount of money you want to spend, and the amount of time you want to spend.
Was that a quote you found, I read that somewhere in a pdf I downloaded.. I think. But like I said, I'll probably just take them out and see what I can do. My family owns the yard and the work is no where foreign to me. I just want it done and done correctly. I want to sail this thing this summer Haha!

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islander bahama 24
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1,842 Posts
You may be able to source a place for a bronze shakewell type seacock when closed they provide a smooth surface with no protrusion or hole in the hull surface
 

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Captain S/V Triumph
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804 Posts
You may be able to source a place for a bronze shakewell type seacock when closed they provide a smooth surface with no protrusion or hole in the hull surface
Interesting item! I did a Google on a 'shakewell' seacock, and found some on-line at a place called Fisheries Supply.

Apparently they are fit in so tightly they don't have an exterior flange at all...?

Very interesting.....
 

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islander bahama 24
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1,842 Posts
Interesting item! I did a Google on a 'shakewell' seacock, and found some on-line at a place called Fisheries Supply.

Apparently they are fit in so tightly they don't have an exterior flange at all...?

Very interesting.....
Yep and they provide a smooth hull when closed and here's the real kicker fisheries supply is less than fifteen miles from me by water.
 

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Tundra Down
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1,290 Posts
Alright, thanks I'll do my best to take them out carefully but no guarantees. But if there is a recessed/beveled hole already
there, I don't see why a new Groco or Buck(I found them thanks for the brand drop) wouldn't work in the same hole. It would be a matter of re bedding them with some inhouse made resin/glass puddy or 5200..
I did just that. I made sure (I used 4200), the 4200 thoroughly bedded and sealed the joint. I carefully removed the 4200 that was not involved in the joint. There was some because the old fitting was a different size. I used an exacto knife for that step and cleaned up with a small wire brush. I taped over the opening in the fitting and with some vinylester putty (cabosil for thixotrophy and microbaloons for filler) I added a "sacrifical" surface patch of 8 oz s-glass then let it cure and faired it all very carefully. I made sure I had some surface of the fitting clean and "rough" at the outer edge so the fairing materials would have a surface to bond to. It ended up "recessing" the new fitting enough that the "sacrifical"glass remained right up to the openings. She is some smooth now and it has survived as I had hoped for three seasons. Great care at the edge of the opening to make sure it is well bonded. I could have skipped the "sacrifical" glass and added some chopped glass to my putty for strength.

How many of these are you working on? It would make sense to get them all ready for the "fairing step" then get them all done at once. The 4200 cures fairly quickly and can be carefully carved. It will allow removal of the fitting with less difficulty in the future.

Have fun.

Down
 

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I replaced four of our bronze wilcox crittendon (1970's era) with Spartan flush mount thru-hulls found here Bronze and Stainless Marine Hardware - Spartan Marine Hardware and Accessories | Robinhood Marine Center the flush mount matched the original recessed area in the hull. As Maine Sail pointed out not sure about the foreign boat though...I think Spartan is the way to go. Buy one and see how it fits. I would stay away from 5200. As others have pointed out use 4200 or a sika brand adhesives and sealants found here http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/
 

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formerly 'BoatyardBoy'
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534 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I did just that. I made sure (I used 4200), the 4200 thoroughly bedded and sealed the joint. I carefully removed the 4200 that was not involved in the joint. There was some because the old fitting was a different size. I used an exacto knife for that step and cleaned up with a small wire brush. I taped over the opening in the fitting and with some vinylester putty (cabosil for thixotrophy and microbaloons for filler) I added a "sacrifical" surface patch of 8 oz s-glass then let it cure and faired it all very carefully. I made sure I had some surface of the fitting clean and "rough" at the outer edge so the fairing materials would have a surface to bond to. It ended up "recessing" the new fitting enough that the "sacrifical"glass remained right up to the openings. She is some smooth now and it has survived as I had hoped for three seasons. Great care at the edge of the opening to make sure it is well bonded. I could have skipped the "sacrifical" glass and added some chopped glass to my putty for strength.

How many of these are you working on? It would make sense to get them all ready for the "fairing step" then get them all done at once. The 4200 cures fairly quickly and can be carefully carved. It will allow removal of the fitting with less difficulty in the future.

Have fun.

Down
I have 14, but I'm going to see about reducing that some.

Would I ever need to remove the fitting in the future? We have used 5200 for thru hulls without any issues.

I replaced four of our bronze wilcox crittendon (1970's era) with Spartan flush mount thru-hulls found here Bronze and Stainless Marine Hardware - Spartan Marine Hardware and Accessories | Robinhood Marine Center the flush mount matched the original recessed area in the hull. As Maine Sail pointed out not sure about the foreign boat though...I think Spartan is the way to go. Buy one and see how it fits. I would stay away from 5200. As others have pointed out use 4200 or a sika brand adhesives and sealants found here http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/
Thanks for the site, I was looking for them. I imagine the bevel recess is probably the same, I'll know when I get back from offshore.

I'm not understanding everyone's push away from 5200, isn't the point of a thru hull to be leak proof and permanent? We have used 5200 on our shrimp boat, pleasure trawler, and other boats since I can remember and they have yet to fail or leak on us.

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I think you can go either way with the adhesive, it really comes down to personal preference. My thought process is if something goes wrong with the seacocks and thru hull that I installed (FYI I am just a diy'er and still learning a lot) it will be somewhat easy to remove, so prefer sealants that can be removed easier than 5200. Now that's not say I don't or haven't used 5200 I have in certain applications. I have also pulled out a lot of old 5200 and it's not that difficult with the right tools. Again I just prefer Sitka flex products so have a tendency to recommend that product because I try to suggest products that I have used without complication. Gosh I wish iwas offshore...have a great time
 

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formerly 'BoatyardBoy'
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534 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think you can go either way with the adhesive, it really comes down to personal preference. My thought process is if something goes wrong with the seacocks and thru hull that I installed (FYI I am just a diy'er and still learning a lot) it will be somewhat easy to remove, so prefer sealants that can be removed easier than 5200. Now that's not say I don't or haven't used 5200 I have in certain applications. I have also pulled out a lot of old 5200 and it's not that difficult with the right tools. Again I just prefer Sitka flex products so have a tendency to recommend that product because I try to suggest products that I have used without complication. Gosh I wish iwas offshore...have a great time
Oh OK I got ya, never tried any sika products. But I understand the preferences, it's what we have used. We figure if you're using 4200 might as well just use the 5200. They are both adhesives and will be difficult to remove later down the road without the tools and tricks.

I'm at work so I'll do my best, not on a pleasure trip Haha! But we are actually in Shipyard right now. Should be splashing next week. But I am on here till I the end of my hitch so, no going home to work on the boat. Just get the luxury of time and money to order things for when I get home..

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