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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there!
I've come across a Cal 2-27 for sale locally that looks pretty good to my eyes, but not to my budget. Asking is 16K CAN$. Owner needs to sell by launch this spring due to job relocation. I've had a look (on the hard) and she looks in fine shape, but of course I reserve judgment until a full marine survey was completed. I am also waiting on confirmation about the age, but here's some specs on her.

LOA 26'7" Beam 9'3"
Apparently "26k" CAN$ spent on upgrades (No details or supporting documentation as of yet)
"New" set of Doyle sails (plus the originals). Sail area 374 Sqft.
"Some of her standing and running rigging is new"
Atomic diesel, converted from Petro to Biodiesel (!!!)
Alcohol stove
Roller Furling
Whitlock Wheel and single control (throttle and shifter in one)
Raymarine ST-40 Bidata (Speed, Depth and Temperature)
Raymarine ST-40 Wind
New binnacle Compass
New Bulkhead Compass
Standard Horizon Chartplotter
New Bimini
Half a new dodger (partially constructed)
All new cushions
New diesel tank
New head ("full size"),and holding tank
Full galley with running (cold) water (new water system) (however the pump stopped working at the end of the season, it was only installed less than half a season

Any thoughts? I am in the Toronto, Ontario area.
Also I would welcome any recommendations on a local surveyor.

thanks,
don
 

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It sounds as if the current owner really tried to fill that hole in the water with money! Certainly this is to your advantage.

Only one thing caught my eye. Did to owner convert his Atomic 4 engine from gasoline to diesel or did he replace the gas engine with a diesel one? This may sound stupid, but I've never heard of that type of a conversion being done. If he did replace the engine, was it new or used?
 

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Lots of upgrades maybe, but its still a 30 year old boat.
Cal 2-27's were last produced around 1980 I believe.
Sounds a bit high if you ask me. Two others on YW for $8600 & $9500 USD.
What is the current exchange rate?? about 20%?? or $12,800US for this boat. Not sure I would be willing to bite at that price.
 

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Aquaholic
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ASA and PSIA Instructor
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The Cal 2-27 is a nice boat, and this example sounds like a good one. I assume the engine is a Universal diesel, referring to it as an Atomic is pretty confusing.

My opinion has always been you can get more boat, and are more likely to get what you pay for, if you buy a well maintained boat at a premium price. I encourage you to chase this boat, you may be the lucky next owner. See how price-sensitive the seller is, you probably can get something off asking, just don't expect to make a "killing".. Be willing to pay a fair price, which may well be close to asking...get your boat and engine surveys...if the surveys are clean, you are set.

If you are uncomroftable paying this price, take a look at a few of the boats listed for around $10k, figure out what a new set of sails, new interior cushions, =etc. willl coast, then plunk that $16K down before someone else figures out what a good deal it may be.
 

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One thing i have learned the hard way is

"A house is expected to have windows":D


Just because someone put in a 20,000 dollar diesel and 10,000 in sails it will NOT make the boat worth 30,000 more than the same boat with older parts as long as everything is in good condition on both boats


Will the boat with brand new parts be worth more YES but there is still a limit
 

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Not knowing the age of the boat, it's difficult to say wether or not it's a good deal. It sounds like someone else bought a project boat and now is not able to complete what they set out to do. IF the major systems (hull, deck, standing rigging, spars, tanks, engine and such) are mechanicaly fit, they it may be a good deal. The price of upholstery alone may make it worthwhile.

Converting a gas engine to diesel is basically an impossibility. The physical properties of the 2 fuels precludes the change. Do a Google search on it. I looked converting my old Bronco 4x4 for bio-diesel and it is non-starter. This means the owner has yanked the A4 out and put in a diesel - either an actual Universal Diesel or some other brand. If they did, the this makes the deal even more much better good. Switching to a diesel plant means a new tank and new fuel lines were installed and that was probably done by a pro. Not many amateurs want to attempt yanking 300-500pounds out through the comapnionway or deal with cutting fuel tanks apart and run the risk of blowing the boat apart.

Regarding a surveyor in the Toronto area, I used Port Credit Marine Surveys for my boat. Wallace is on this site and goees by the name boatpoker. Look him up. He'll give you the straight talk.
 

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Source, Seal's Spars and Rigging.
"Bill Lapworth designed the Cal 2-27 in 1973 for Jensen Marine (also known as Cal-Boats) in Costa Mesa, California., which produced the boat from 1974 to 1980."
I am also waiting on confirmation about the age
Like I said, she is at least 29 years old and could be as old as 35.
 

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I would not be too enthusiastic about a diesel that has been running on pure biodiesel. Best to consult the engine manufacturer and see what they have to say. I know that some marine diesels can run just fine on a blend of conventional diesel and biodiesel and it's been approved by the manufacturer. Personally I don't see why someone would even bother to convert. It's not like you are going to recoup the cost anytime soon unless that engine is running hundreds of hours a month.

As far as the boat itself it is and always will be what it is. From what I've seen the well maintained and equipped boats will always sell quicker but they seldom fetch more than high end of the resale range. People often over-improve a boat and they try to recoup their costs when they sell. With the economy the way it is I would not spend too much on the boat unless you are sure you plan to keep it long term. We purchased our current boat for just slightly more than what the previous owner spent refitting it. So he got about 61% of his total investment (purchase price + refit cost) back. He probably spent close to 1000 hours of his own time as well. It never pays to refit a boat unless you plan to use the boat for several years. In our case the fellow never got to use the boat due to health issues

So offer a price in the normal selling range, keeping in mind that YW only tells you what brokers hope to sell for. I have seen some boats going incredibly cheap due to the economy.
 

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Atomic Confusion

The engine being referred to as an 'Atomic' was a diesel to begin with. I have come across this confusion before and the real culprit here is Universal who also make the Atomic 4 gas engine. Around 1980 they sold some of there diesels (m25, m35?) branded with then name 'Atomic'. I suppose that they owned the 'Atomic' trademark and wanted to get some extra mileage out of it. For whatever (stupid) reason Universal did this it has caused much confusion among boat owners.
I became aware of this situation when a friend told me that his engine on his 1980 Endeavor 32' was an 'Atomic' which was clearly labeled in the **** pit. When I got to inspect the boat I found it to be a diesel, an M35 I think. I am still not sure why you would want to convert an engine like this to run on bio-diesel but hey, what ever floats your boat.
I am going to agree with the chorus here regarding the asking price for this boat. Yes, there are lots of nice, recent upgrades that are worth considering. The real question is not whether this is a "good deal" but whether you like this boat for your intended uses.
I got my Tartan 27' (now 40 years old) with a working Atomic 4 engine for $4k about 6 years ago. My friend got his E 32' for $10K 2 years ago.
Good luck.
 

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Sailing Junkie
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I had a 1972 Cal 27 that predates the 2-27. I bought it in 1992 for $2500 and it was a fixer-upper. I sold it three years later after upgrades for around $8500. I didn't make any money on it, but I figured I broke even minus the personal labor, but hey, I got a few years of enjoyment out of it. I saw it last summer sailing near Solomons Island Md, It was great seeing my old boat still sailing and looking good!!!
The difference is that mine had a HUGE pop-top and the cabin sides went out to the full beam which made it great for a summer on the chesapeake, but not suitable for open water. The 2-27 has a standard style cabin top and is a fairly attractive vessel for a more traditional look. I believe that the hull form is the same which makes it a very good sailing boat with a light helm. Great boat to learn on and simple to repair.
Have fun if you decide to get her, she'll not disappoint:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the replies!

Hi again everyone!
I resolved SOME of the confusion about this so thought I should followup with you helpful people. . It's actually got a Farymann diesel single cyl 10 hp. I seem to have lost track of the owner with my followup questions so not sure what to make of that. The owner supposedly could not stand the smell of the reg diesel fumes so presumably that's why he used bio instead. Says it smells like popcorn while running!
Unless there is followup from the owner I suspect we can consider this thread as done. I also got some great help from reading the Cal user group on this site, but I suspect I'm now looking elsewhere for the boat o'mine dreams!

thanks, don
 

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Don't check the boat off your list.
I like the Cal's. The 25-II and the 2-27 were great little boats.
Very strudy and seaworthy.
 

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Way too much money.

If he really 'has' to sell it before launch time then you are holding all the aces. You have nothing to lose by offering $8K.
At worse, offer the well known and accepted 2/3rds 'pending outcome of the survey'. There are too many good boats for sail to pay that much.
 

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If he really 'has' to sell it before launch time then you are holding all the aces. You have nothing to lose by offering $8K.
At worse, offer the well known and accepted 2/3rds 'pending outcome of the survey'. There are too many good boats for sail to pay that much.
Sounds to me like Campbdon wants to own a nice boat, not play robber baron. Nice boats are few and far in between - fortunately since they cost more than average must buyers arn't smart enough to grab one...giving the smart buyers the chance to pay extra, but get a lot more for their money, maybe even get what they are paying for, unlike most buyers who in fact get less..

I'm not saying this particular boat is a good deal, but given its specs, it could be one.

PS - I had a Farryman single once - it is one hell of a washing machine motor, rough as hell, but was very simple and reliable. I guess typical single cylinder.
 

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If you are in the GTA you might want to look at CS27's, C&C 27's and Mirage 27's. Also look at Alhoa 8.2's There are more of these boats around and it's easier to find one in good condition in your price range. You should be able to get a nice CS or C&C 27 and you could definitely get a nice Aloha for 15K,

There are not very many Cal's in Ontario, and they are not easy boats to resell because people are unfamiliar with them. There will be some very good deals to be had this spring with all of the lay-offs that are currently occuring. Don't worry too much about asking prices - if you see a boat that interests you, email the owner/vendor and explain the dollars you are working with. Let them know that they can contact you when they are ready to consider selling for what you can pay. Be patient and it will work out well for you.
boat for sale
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The one that got away

Thanks again Sailormann, and the rest of you for your helpful input. The Cal owner is definitely firm on his pricing so I'm looking elsewhere now. I'll be looking at a 1981 Mirage 27 this weekend so I might need to pick your brains again if she looks good!.
don
 
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