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Stop in Mururo Atoll in the South Pacific and do some research for us.

Mururoa fallout worse than first thought | Stuff.co.nz.
After 20 years on the surface rads should be low. I would go in, in a protective suit, until mesurements were taken. At the very least you will want respiratory protection and a dosimeter. you will also want to cover your feet. I am guarantee the sand is still radioactive. you could however walk about there with mild caution. As far as the geological aspect, I don't know. 15 meter high tsunami seems a bit of an overstatement to me. I would have to see the research to be sure.
 

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Stop in Mururo Atoll in the South Pacific and do some research for us.

Mururoa fallout worse than first thought | Stuff.co.nz.
The "stuff" article sort of validates UP's point.

It's a hodgepodge of nonsense. It confuses radiation and radioactivity and dose and mass. It tries to establish relationships between measurements at disparate places and times while characterizing the measurements in terms of multiples of allowable limits rather than quantities.

One wonders if the author is being artfully confusing because his average reader is a layperson who doesn't understand or whether he/she is simply uneducated.
 

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The "stuff" article sort of validates UP's point.

It's a hodgepodge of nonsense. It confuses radiation and radioactivity and dose and mass. It tries to establish relationships between measurements at disparate places and times while characterizing the measurements in terms of multiples of allowable limits rather than quantities.

One wonders if the author is being artfully confusing because his average reader is a layperson who doesn't understand or whether he/she is simply uneducated.
Yes, this is a gem:
"But in Tahiti there is also a fall-out of plutonium 500 times higher than the maximum dose that a human being can have."
this one too:
The documents show that the explosions have left a residual mass of about 500 kilogrammes of plutonium 239. It is extremely toxic and has to be contained for 240,000 years before it can enter the wider environment.
We don't even fully understand nuclear decay yet on Isotopes with more then 10,000 year half lives. that research is based on speculation, not observation. To say a quater million years is highly deceptive. Also if it is indeed PU-239 then lets go get it. We can sell that for some good money to some powerplants. $4 a miligram!!!!!!! thats $2,000,000,000 worth of PU-239 woohoo! I am going to suit up and.... wait, who wrote this report? seriously, that is worth more then gold. $4000 a gram vs $16 a gram. Is anyone else seeing this?
 

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There is no doubt that some published science is junk, the peer review process is not perfect. There is also no doubt that the reporting in the popular press often does science a disservice.

But using that to dismiss the vast majority of science? WTF, do you believe in gravity, or is that a science conspiracy too? Most (97%) climate researchers believe humans are warming the planet.



I'm a fan of nuclear power. I think the popular press does science a disservice when it hypes the danger or radioactivity. Yes, radioactivity can be harmful, but not in the doses that power plants put out. Coal plants put out more radioactivity that nuclear power plants.
 

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Most (97%) climate researchers believe humans are warming the planet.
REALLY? If they all said humans were not warming the planet, would they have jobs? Also where is this 97% figure coming from?

But using that to dismiss the vast majority of science? WTF, do you believe in gravity, or is that a science conspiracy too?
If I had the solution for gravity theories I would have a noble prize. the best theory so far is space pushes us onto the planet. (to make it really really basic) However gravity is far from solved. Heck we are so far from understanding even the basic things, that is what makes it so interesting. I can't wait for some answers that will most likely not even come in m lifetime. I am impressed that we have broken the speed of light (or more specifically found something faster then light) But even that raises even more questions!!! sorry, so exciting.
Global warming BTW is not a conspiracy in the classic sense. Its just people lying to protect their own job. I see people doing it all day, no matter if they are a scientist or not!

If my job was to read the worlds only thermometer and if it said less the 80F then I lose my job, would I see it say 79, or would I say it was 80 on a chilly day. I bet some of those scientists believe it is caused by humans. As scientists we go into looking at data with an assumption many times. Its human nature to be partial. Money makes them see what they need to see. I thought climategate would help you laypeople see that the data is very fuzzy at best.

Listen, cops don't steel money, CFO's don't cook the books, every stock IPO is honest, and The dress code at work calls for pink tutus on the men, and women must go topless. Everyone lies. Some get caught today, others get caught tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
Beyond my original post, here are another two articles that have me wondering about what is really going-on:

Sea Star Melt Disease: Why Are Starfish Melting? | EcoWatch

Seal Die-Offs Bering Sea: NOAA Declares Ringed Seal Deaths an Unusual Mortality Event - KTUU.com

The sea stars are a concern because of how low they are in the food chain. The seal deaths are a concern, because as an 'alpha species', their symptoms are indicative of radiation poisoning (loss of fur/pelt/hair and open skin sores)

I appreciate the thoughts of those on this forum, however, I've enough of an education and research background to know: science is as much about politics as research, statistics can easily be and are often cooked, and scientific 'critical thinking' is often used to obscure common sense in the interest of political objectives.

My question again (and I know I sound like an A-Hole right now, but this is quite serious), is anyone who actually has sailed and currently sails the North Pacific, both now and over the decades, noticing anything concerning sea life health, density, and distribution?

I know the information I'm asking for is antidotal, but I don't care.

Up until 125 years ago, frickin germ theory was still under debate by the 'best and brightest', though the microscope was available for a few centuries before even that.
 

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My question again (and I know I sound like an A-Hole right now), is anyone who actually has sailed and currently sails the North Pacific, both now and over the decades, noticing anything concerning sea life health, density, and distribution?
Personal observation is not science. Its like asking an old person about the weather, they all either go, "well sonny, storms in my day were worse" or "well sonny, today there is very odd weather. In reality neither has a clue, because most memorys are flawed, and its based on one persons observations. I may sail thru the north pacific and see 500 whales, someone else may see none. In reality animal counting is very speculative. Unless they attach trackers to every whale, and every time a new whale is found, they put on a new tracker, they have no idea.
Apply this logic to small mammals, and you can see, its pure speculation.

the first link has this in it:
If nothing else, the crisis is a reminder
weasel words. To call a few starfish dieing a crisis is just audacious journalism.
They also do not link to any real scientific studies.

second link is old, and then I found this with a little google search.
Months later, Arctic ring seal deaths leave scientists flummoxed | Alaska Dispatch
At this point, scientists do not believe that radiation is a primary factor in this unusual mortality event or that radiation is causing the symptoms and deaths in pinnipeds,"
so no, the ultra low radiation levels from japan are not having a global impact. Nor will they. The nice thing about the ocean being 326,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallons is it takes a crap load to pollute the whole thing.
Fun math time.
6 billion people on earth
15,000 gallons of water in a lifetime.
90-120 trillion gallons of water will be consumed over the next 80 years.
thats 90,000,000,000,000
vs 326,000,000,000,000,000,000 gallons

we each have allocated 54billion gallons of salt water on earth.
So when you dump say 1 billion gallons of water into the ocean even if it was 100% contaminated (and its not that much, and not that contaminated)
thats just 1 part per 33 billion. more likely it will work out to 1 part per 10,000 quadrillion so no, mr seal and mrs starfish have nothing to worry about unless they swim to japan, and swim in the water outside the plant.
Have fun with the big numbers :)

If you want really big numbers get this one 10^82 or 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 that is the current guess on number of atoms in the universe. I say guess, because we still have not found the end of the universe. It may be unending :)
 

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Beyond my original post, here are another two articles that have me wondering about what is really going-on:

Sea Star Melt Disease: Why Are Starfish Melting? | EcoWatch

Seal Die-Offs Bering Sea: NOAA Declares Ringed Seal Deaths an Unusual Mortality Event - KTUU.com
The first article is a reproduction of a press release by the Natural Resources Defense Council...an organization whose primary purpose seems to be to hype and exaggerate the risk of any activity that might strengthen US society or national power and whose name on article requires me to use every ounce of objectivity in my brain to avoid summarily throwing it out. The organization's name is indicative of its hubris...
There is no evidence that Pacific Seastar mortality or deformity is related to Fukushima.

As noted above the second article cites an issue with ringed seals that resulted in a flurry of media activity in late '11 and early '12 because someone thought...OMG...a link between Fukushima and radiation poisoning of seals. Except every tissue sample tested from these seals indicates an absence of radioactivity and damage of the nature caused by high radiation doses. Media interest suddenly was gone...a few articles in the public press noted the results but most just carried on to the next event to be hyped.

It's natural to wonder about these things...but a healthy dose of skepticism about "science" claims in the press or "findings" by "studies" is armor against lies and exaggeration.
 

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If you want really big numbers get this one 10^82 or 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 that is the current guess on number of atoms in the universe. I say guess, because we still have not found the end of the universe. It may be unending :)
And, if we did find the end, what would we call whatever is past the end? :D

To me, one of the most humbling things I can do, is lie on my deck in an anchorage completely away from artificial light, and see how many damn stars there are up there, and how long it has all been there, and what we are in relation, and how arrogant we are to think we are in control of anything.

I think about about us arguing endlessly about things like global warming and politics for years, and then about the time we decide what's what about it all, an asteroid comes by and smacks us for being in its way and wipes us out. :D
 
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{snip}

I think about about us arguing endlessly about things like global warming and politics for years, and then about the time we decide what's what about it all, an asteroid comes by and smacks us for being in its way and wipes us out. :D[/QUOTE28]

:) For your edification & enjoyment:

Asteroids as powerful as NUCLEAR BOMBS strike Earth TWICE YEARLY

Truck-sized asteroid slips silently between Moon and Earth

Moon flashes Earth after getting pounding from MASSIVE meteorite

...or the Vogons remove Earth to make room for a hyperspace bypass.
 

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I think about about us arguing endlessly about things like global warming and politics for years, and then about the time we decide what's what about it all, an asteroid comes by and smacks us for being in its way and wipes us out. :D
the odds of an asteroid hitting us large enough to wipe us out is incalculable.
All but the people relying on money from jobs in the space tracking field will tell you its a very remote chance. Not even enough to worry about.
 

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the odds of an asteroid hitting us large enough to wipe us out is incalculable.
All but the people relying on money from jobs in the space tracking field will tell you its a very remote chance. Not even enough to worry about.
Tell it to the dinosaurs. :D
 
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I'll ask the next one I see. :D
Paleontologists - following the find of massive numbers of large dinosaur fossils in Patagonia - are now theorizing that early small dinosaurs lived on the edge of Pangea and that Pangea's breakup due to plate tectonics dramatically altered the environment leading to the evolution of the large/dominant late Jurassic dinosaurs. If true - the climate change due to Pangea's breakup was good for them.

Perhaps climate change will be good for us too. But if we grow commensurately imagine how cramped those Delta/United seats will be in a few decades.
 
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