SailNet Community banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
473 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am in the process of upgrading my electronics. Existing electronics on the boat are NMEA 0183 connected. The new electronics will be using NMEA 2000. The Garmin 741 Chartplotter has both; if I connect both networks to the Chartplotter will it transfer messages between the two networks? Will NMEA 0183 sentences show up on the NMEA 2000 bus and visa versa?

Otherwise I will need to purchase a separate multiplexer to connect between the two networks.

Anyone have any experience in this regard.

thanks and stay safe.
Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21,785 Posts
What are you leaving behind in 0183? Would it be worth bring those up to date as well?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
473 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I am sure it would but a bit costly. My boat came with 11 B&G displays (vintage 1990), 5 over the companion way (Digital depth, multi function; Analog Compass, Wind and Mag Wind) in a pod , repeat at the helm, in a pod, and one Digital Multi-function down at the Nav station. Five of the displays are digital (Old LCD) and the screens are pretty much shot with dropped lines. The 6 Analog displays seem to work ok, just needles pointing around a circle. I could rip out the whole B&G system and start from scratch, but I am wondering if there is a way to go at this a bit at the time. Replacing all the displays would be more $$$ and removing the pods and rearranging things would be a pain as well. Everything looked good when they were working and convenient in both locations as all my lines are lead to the cockpit and the displays over the companionway are easy to read while making adjustments.

The old B&G Wind transducer is not working consistently. so it is time to make some changes. My plan is to replace the wind, depth and speed transducers with a RayMarine package; Wind, speed and depth transducers, an iTC 5 Controller, to a NMEA2000 (or Seatalk) bus; it comes with 3 displays; wind, speed and depth. In addition, I will add an i70 Multifunction display.

I can put the 3 new displays in the pod over the companionway leaving 2 of the B&G analog displays; compass or wind and Magnified wind. Then at the helm I have my Garmin 741 chart plotter, the new i70 display and the three old B&G analog displays (wind, compass and Mag wind).

the B&G system has an interface box that allows it to exchange date between its 'fastnet' service and NMEA 0183. I currently use that connection to get data from my Garmin into the existing B&G network.

In the new configuration the Garmin will be on both networks, the RM NMEA 2000 and the old NMEA 0183. If it multiplexes the data from the new transducers on the NMEA 2000 to the NMEA 0183, then the old B&G digital displays should get data and be usable (until they are not).

I already have a RM WheelPilot Computer, Rate Gyro and controller at the helm and that would tie into the new network as well.

I am hoping I can leave upgrading the other displays to another year. This way there should be a self consistent NMEA 2000 system on board (in all the required locations), with some additional displays hanging off that network from the old system.

Worse come to worse I can just leave the covers on the old displays and maybe add another i 70 at the companionway or do something to make it look nice and functional.

thanks,
Ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
473 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
My Raymarine electronics displays and transducers have finally arrived. I did some initial testing today and it definitely seems that the Garmin will translate NMEA 0183 data over to the NMEA 2000 connection. I have my old B&G instruments (wind, speed and depth) still connected to the Garmin via NMEA 0183 and I connected the new RayMarine Displays (i50/i60 and i70) to the NMEA 2000 adapter on the Garmin thru an A06045 adapter to the SeaTalkNG network and the new RayMarine diaplays showed the data from the B&G transducers. However, it does not seem to work the other way around. I disconnected the B&G depth and speed transducer and connected the new RayMarine depth, temp and speed transducer to the RayMarine SeaTalkNG network (thru an ITC-5) and while the RayMarine displays showed that data, the B&G displays did not.

So if I want to see the 'new' data on my old Displays I will need to use a NMEA 2000 to NMEA 0183 multiplexer other than the Garmin. I do need to read the Garmin 741 manual again to see if I may be missing some setting before I go that route.

Ron
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
12,186 Posts
How about creating a NMEA 2000 backbone. All 2000 devices direct connect.
All NMEA 0183 pass through a bi directional connector to the backbone
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,075 Posts
I am facing an upgrade from 183 to N2K. Doing an entire N2K system is spendy for sure. I don't think the actual wiring is a barrier. I have even older B&G displays on the dash and working wind and depth transducers which are not N2K compatible and very old. In my case I will remove the dash over the companionway which is a flat piece of gelcoated GRP and replace it with starboard or acrylic...white or black. As the new B&G Tritons are MFD one can have different data on each one or scroll to see the data you want. I now have 7 dash displays but I will reduce it to 4.

I don't like or use a pedestal instrument pod. Instead since I operate the boat from forward to port in the cockpit... where my AP controls are located I mounted a B&G MFD in a winch on the coach roof... which I can swing around for viewing and plug into a dash outlet for power. It's presently stand alone and is stored below when not in use... but with an N2K system it will have an N2K cable to a dash outlet... putting it on the N2k system. I will get a newer MFD for the winch mount... and move the ex'g to the nav station where the old and to be retired Ray C80 lives. It will have the radar connected and I believe this will be on the network and viewable from the winch mounted MFD. I will keep the KVH 183 compass until that fails. I do not use and will not use an integrated GPS driven AP.

I've done the planning... but none of the execution as my ancient B&G and 0183 is still working fine.

A new wind AWI has yet to be decided. They have wireless, wired and the possibility to use a NEMA 183 wind instrument w/ a 183 to N2K converter mounted inside at the base of the mast. As my present AWI works, I may look for a converter of that to 183 or N2K... which I believe is available and keep the AWI until it fails.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
473 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
SanderO: Glad to hear your B&G 'stuff' is still working. My digital displays have all dropped lines and are hard to read and the wind transducer shows inconsistency between Port and Starboard data. So I am updating the transducers and some displays.

Chef2sail: wish it were that simple, the B&G displays talk "FastNet," not stricly NMEA 0183 so I have to go thru their H1000 interface box. And that also means keeping 2 networks for the time being; SeaTalkNG and FastNet.

The straight forward solution is to get rid of the B&G 'FastNet' (NMEA 0183 connectable thru the B&G H1000 interface) network and the associated displays and put in either NMEA 2000 or RayMarine SeatalkNG Displays, but as mentioned before that means replacing 6 more displays (easily another couple Boat Bucks). Or cut back the number of displays and go with multi-function displays, but then you have to push buttons to see what you want to see. I am trying to bridge the two and it is a bit tricky. I am installing a RayMarine SeaTalkNG backbone (essentially NMEA 2000 but with custom connectors), so eventually I can replace all the displays (over time). The Garmin 741 ChartPlotter manual lists what NMEA 0183 and NMEA 2000 'sentences' it receives and transmits and the same for the B&G H1000. I am particularly interested in the 'wind' data as those are the B&G analog displays I intend to try to keep operating. The Garmin will receive NMEA 0183 and 2000 wind data but it only transmits NMEA 2000 wind data. So I have to convert the NMEA 2000 wind data to NMEA 0183 wind data so I can pass it on to the B&G H1000 interface box. That is the function of the NMEA 2000 to NMEA 0183 multiplexer. I was 'hopeful' that the Garmin would do that translation, but it does not. I do have a custom multiplexer called a "KBOX," designed, built and sold by Thomas Sarlandie, (see it here: KBOX Project ). The advantage of the KBOX is that it is programmable and so I can manipulate the data into what ever form I need. Plus it provides other data to the bus; such as: roll, pitch and yaw data as well as battery voltages and it logs the data to an SD card.
So at this point it seems doable, but not simple.

thanks,
Ron
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
12,186 Posts
Lots of electronics.
Lots of electronic technical talk which I understand but not my cup of tea
Sorry I can’t be of much help.
We have a simple system comparatively 2-MFD, AIS, AP, WIND , DEPTH, SPEED, DIGITAL RADAR

I suggest your steps plan for the future and not support the past as it will break and become obsolete ( kind of already is in not being on a modern communication pattern )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,075 Posts
SanderO: Glad to hear your B&G 'stuff' is still working. My digital displays have all dropped lines and are hard to read and the wind transducer shows inconsistency between Port and Starboard data. So I am updating the transducers and some displays.

Chef2sail: wish it were that simple, the B&G displays talk "FastNet," not stricly NMEA 0183 so I have to go thru their H1000 interface box. And that also means keeping 2 networks for the time being; SeaTalkNG and FastNet.

The straight forward solution is to get rid of the B&G 'FastNet' (NMEA 0183 connectable thru the B&G H1000 interface) network and the associated displays and put in either NMEA 2000 or RayMarine SeatalkNG Displays, but as mentioned before that means replacing 6 more displays (easily another couple Boat Bucks). Or cut back the number of displays and go with multi-function displays, but then you have to push buttons to see what you want to see. I am trying to bridge the two and it is a bit tricky. I am installing a RayMarine SeaTalkNG backbone (essentially NMEA 2000 but with custom connectors), so eventually I can replace all the displays (over time). The Garmin 741 ChartPlotter manual lists what NMEA 0183 and NMEA 2000 'sentences' it receives and transmits and the same for the B&G H1000. I am particularly interested in the 'wind' data as those are the B&G analog displays I intend to try to keep operating. The Garmin will receive NMEA 0183 and 2000 wind data but it only transmits NMEA 2000 wind data. So I have to convert the NMEA 2000 wind data to NMEA 0183 wind data so I can pass it on to the B&G H1000 interface box. That is the function of the NMEA 2000 to NMEA 0183 multiplexer. I was 'hopeful' that the Garmin would do that translation, but it does not. I do have a custom multiplexer called a "KBOX," designed, built and sold by Thomas Sarlandie, (see it here: KBOX Project ). The advantage of the KBOX is that it is programmable and so I can manipulate the data into what ever form I need. Plus it provides other data to the bus; such as: roll, pitch and yaw data as well as battery voltages and it logs the data to an SD card.
So at this point it seems doable, but not simple.

thanks,
Ron
I hear you on "transitioning" issues. I like the 4x4 displays with separate data on the dash. Tritons can do 2 windows or 3 or 4 I think. They are very readable. If they can scroll or switch between data you could do with less of them. I was concerned about the radar cable size and getting that to the cockpit so my solution was to use the ex'g B&G T7 down below on the N2K network... and new larger display for the cockpit where it's really needed w/ radar... assuming that radar can be on the network.

Whatever you do it will be spendy. Good luck with that!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
473 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Just a follow up. Everything worked. I have the SeaTalkNG backbone, with spurs to displays and the E22158 to connect to the S1 (old) AP. I get all data at the I70 from the transducers (wind, speed and depth), nav info from the Garmin and rudder and Mag Compass from the S1. In addition, my Nmea2000 to Nmea0183 multiplexer (connected to the old B&G H1000 interface box) is working and I can display the NMEA2000 wind data on my old analog B&G Displays. Now that I have tested everything I need to get to the yard to have the transducers installed and firm up my locations for the displays and do the backbone wiring. There is a little complexity to the whole setup, but it is not rocket science. Most everything can be found out on the web.

Ron
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top