[kelham]

Hi Folks. First post.

I just purchased a 1977 Newport 28. Upon changing the holding tank hoses I quickly found out that one of my gate valves isn't fully closed despite the handle being turned to fully closed. So I quickly ran some hose above the waterline and plugged it (before the boat sank). I'm thinking the valve is probably just blocked via debris...a twig, poo sludge, who knows. Any ideas for how I can clear it and close the valve without hauling the boat?

Also...is there a group of Newport 28 owners on here I can subscribe to?

Thanks!

 

[deniseO30]

the era for gate valves is long gone.. time to replace with ball valves. Is this the sea valve? You don't want to do those when in the water of course.

 

[misfits]

Odds are the stem is broken & if so not only will it not fully close, it won't open.
Like Denise 030 mentioned, time to replace them with ball valve style seacock.

 

[capta]

You should not be using gate valves on a boat, period. Ball valves are a poor substitute for proper sea cocks, if they are on through hulls. Time to upgrade; the alternative is unpleasant to contemplate.

 

[mitiempo]

Ball valves are a poor substitute for proper sea cocks, if they are on through hulls. Time to upgrade; the alternative is unpleasant to contemplate.

Really? Groco, MaineSail, and many others would disagree with that.



Also see here http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/replacing_thruhulls

 

[mad_machine]

gatevalves should never be used on a boat. As you discovered, the only way to find out if one is fully closed or not is when the water starts to run in past it. Sea Cocks and Ball valves are an "instant tell" if they are open or closed

 

[CaptainForce]

You should not be using gate valves on a boat, period. Ball valves are a poor substitute for proper sea cocks ........

I would be quick to agree that the gate valves are not proper on a boat, but not so quick to dismiss the ball valves. Most seacocks are ball valves with the base that is attached to the hull an integral part of the same structure. Ball valves differ in that the valve structure is threaded to the base plate. I don't feel that there is a great loss in "proper" application having the ball valve well threaded to the base plate as opposed to the one unit seacock; while there is a huge loss of proper function with the use of a gate valve. Given the choice I would prefer the seacock, but I would not be concerned about well fitted ball valves.

 

[deniseO30]

exercise in futility

 

[mitiempo]

Now that is being cheap!

 

[kelham]

That link didn't work. Can you PM it to me? Thanks. Also, everyone...I know gate valves are bad as I just read This Old Boat by Don Casey. However I need to find a solution until next haul out when I can replace them in a few months or a year.

 

[Capt Len]

Driving a soft wood plug into the outside thruhull and changing the defective to the proper ball valve could be done to avoid a haul out. This assumes that the thru hull isn't junk too.

 

[desert rat]

Capt Len beats my lube it all to hxxl and replace when you can.

 

[ReefMagnet]

Driving a soft wood plug into the outside thruhull and changing the defective to the proper ball valve could be done to avoid a haul out. This assumes that the thru hull isn't junk too.

There's a chance the through hull can rotate rather than the valve unscrew leading to more problems. Worst case scenario is that the through hull itself could fracture from the forces involved trying to unscrew a valve that's been in place forever.

I know this because I was faced with the same problem with my boat a few months back, although in my case it was a jammed closed gate. After much deliberation (including the idea of a bung and on water valve replacement), I simply unscrewed the tap, removed the failed gate and re-screwed the tap back on. The amount of water that pours out is not overly scary and can be stemmed temporarily with a rag stuffed into the opening (a wood bung won't work because the hole isn't round, although it would be possible to drive the bung from outside as per the suggestion above). I've already got the replacement ball valve on board ready for next haul out. I could have swapped the tap with that from an above waterline identical valve on the boat but, fortunately, the hoses and (double) clamps to this outlet were only just replaced so having the valve unable to close is an acceptable risk for the time being.

 

[Puddin'_Tain]

I've replaced a couple of below-the-waterline valves with the boat in the water. It's not that big a deal. The in-rush of water while you are swapping them seems like a lot at first, but it's really only a few (very few) gallons. Have an appropriately sized PVC pipe cap on hand, just in case something goes wrong while you are putting the new valve on (even if it cross-treads, the soft PVC will go on tight enough to stop the water flow, or reduce it to a trickle, while you get things sorted out).

 

[capta]

I would be quick to agree that the gate valves are not proper on a boat, but not so quick to dismiss the ball valves. Most seacocks are ball valves with the base that is attached to the hull an integral part of the same structure. Ball valves differ in that the valve structure is threaded to the base plate. I don't feel that there is a great loss in "proper" application having the ball valve well threaded to the base plate as opposed to the one unit seacock; while there is a huge loss of proper function with the use of a gate valve. Given the choice I would prefer the seacock, but I would not be concerned about well fitted ball valves.

Proper sea cocks are not at all similar to ball valves. Sea cocks are tapered cone valves that can be maintained, lapped and last for a century or more. They are much more heavily built and can actually cut something that might prevent a ball valve from closing.
There is the right product for a job or any number of others that will suffice, but I'll not risk MY vessel with something that "does the job" when, for a few dollars more I can have the proper item designed specifically for that job. Above the waterline a ball valve may be fine, but below.......

 

[sailordave]

RE: Ball valves and thru hulls. It appears from reading some of the previous comments that perhaps there was some misunderstanding.

Yes, Proper seacocks have ball valves. I replace three of mine last year.

What is NOT proper is just screwing a ball valve onto the thru hull w/ no backing plate like you see on the Groco, et al.
There still is no support for the valve and it probably won't meet the ABYC standard of weight applied (IIRC 500lbs for 30 sec) sideloaded. but MAINESAIL can correct me!

And unless you sail in fresh water only, I wouldn't waste my $$ getting the cheaper version of chrome plated brass ball. Get the good SS version.

 

[mitiempo]

What is NOT proper is just screwing a ball valve onto the thru hull w/ no backing plate like you see on the Groco, et al.
There still is no support for the valve and it probably won't meet the ABYC standard of weight applied (IIRC 500lbs for 30 sec) sideloaded. but MAINESAIL can correct me!

You should look at my post again. Neither I nor Groco recommend a ball valve screwed onto a through hull without a backing plate. Groco flanged adaptors are bolted to the hull in 3 places and the threads will match - NPS from the through hull to the female side of the flanged adaptor and NPT into the ball valve.

Also look at the link I posted to MaineSail's site.

 

[CaptainForce]

There is a variety in the quality and structure of seacocks, ball valves and the manner in which they are fit. There are poor applications of ball valves and some that are satisfactory. As I said, I would prefer the best seacocks. Gate valves are not in the running and are never appropriate.

Help me with a related observation. I was recently helping a prospective buyer evaluate the condition of a 1988 Newport MK II and I made an attempt to inspect the through-hulls from the interior at the bow. I was amazed to see no gate valves, ball valves or seacocks, but instead hoses led directly and flush to an inner liner with no apparent access to the point where they exited the hull. What was I missing here? Can any Newport 28 MK II owners explain this?

 

[Ajax_MD]

'Glassed in pipe nipples. I'm surprised to hear of that on a boat that "new".

I have two "standpipes" on my 1972 Pearson 30 for the galley and head sink drains.
There's no mushroom headed through hull. A bronze pipe nipple was glassed directly to the hull, laid up with glass to make a standpipe. A flexible hose connects the stand pipe with the sink.

People have mixed feelings about these. On one hand, there's no valve to shut in case of water ingress. On the other hand, they seem to be pretty sturdy. Most Catalina and Pearson owners I've talked to, stated that a considerable amount of demolition was required to get the pipe nipple out, so that a through-hull and seacock could be installed.

I'll replace mine before too long. Mine seem very beefy and don't cause me to lose any sleep.

 

[hellosailor]

Gate valve gates, internally, are usually cheap zinc castings and any zinc on a boat is going to go away sooner or later. They're cheap, but really unsuited for use even for garden hoses, because they will leak and will fail and a proper ball valve really doesn't cost a whole lot more.

For a boat, you do not want a hardware-store ball valve because they are usually brass castings (not bronze) with a stainless-steel coated ball, or other "cheapest" parts. If you can find a plastic one, and you don't have any problems with "plastic", and it has a real stainless ball in it...that might be one compromise. But a genuine marine grade (i.e. Marelon) ball valve might let you sleep better, without the awful expense of bronze seacocks.

Do them all, because the others are just as likely to fail in the immediate future. It isn't clogging, it is a gate valve's normal way of failing. If it was clogging, you could backflush it or blow it out.