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Gell Coat cracks... Well the whole damn boat.

18321 Views 43 Replies 20 Participants Last post by kidcarbon, Nov 23, 2010

dieselboy

Discussion Starter · Oct 15, 2009

So my boat is getting to the point where i want to rework the upper decks.

I have two problems , one is the boat is 40 years old and the gell coat has seen better days the second is that someone applied cheep paint over it and its cracking and flaking too.
So do i strip it down to glass and re do it all?
smooth it as much as possible and fill it?
or just go over it?

P.S. these holes are no longer there. I have redone them and they are the best spots on my deck as of now.

Thank you all for your time and for putting up with all my dumb questions.

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GaryHLucas

· #15 · Oct 17, 2009

I refinished a C22, including the entire deck. I found that when I gorund away the entire gelcoat that many of those "gelcoat cracks" actually extended deep into the glass structure. Especially at inside corners.

Ever notice that few hulls ever crack badly? Hulls are continuos, smooth, rounded and ideally shaped for the tension loads placed on them by the rig. In contrast the deck has to take mostly compression loads, matching those tension loads on the hull. It has to do it while zig zagging all over the place and with large holes punched in it everywhere. Then they go and core the deck. That's good for stiffness from deck loads like people, but not very good when the loads are edge on to a cored structure.

My current boat, an Etap 26 has deck that a number of bad areas, including a new mast step that I had to glass in. I am thinking seriously about reglassing the whole deck, then painting. If nothing ties the cracks together I expecti t will all just crack again quickly.

Gary H. Lucas

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GaryHLucas

· #18 · Oct 17, 2009

Paul,
I can't argue with your point of view. I clearly made a mistake buying my boat.

Experience, it's what allows you to recognize a mistake, when you make it again!

At this point I am trapped. I have the boat apart and much of the major repairs well under way. In this market any boat that is in pieces has a negative value, you'd have to pay someone to haul it away. I paid cash for it, but it is a little too big to trailer and sits in a marina consuming boat bucks. So I can't afford to just let it sit. I never made it into the water this year, but I believe it will go back in next spring as a day sailer. It'll be sailable but the interior will still be gutted and a work in progress. That isn't a great solution, but it gets me sailing, which gets me the urge to keep working.

I agree with your assessment that people should use a surveyor, as I should have. In my case there were no surprises. I know enough about boats to recognize every issue with this boat. What I missed was my own propensity to gloss over those issues simply because I CAN fix them. Taken individually they are each no big deal. Put them all together though and it is a hell of a lot of work I really didn't want.

Gary H. Lucas

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GaryHLucas

· #22 · Oct 18, 2009

downeast450 said:
I have a severely crazed white gel coat deck. My Islander 28 was built in 1978. The gelcoat is crazed because, over time, the curing has produced such strong cohesive bonds in the gelcoat that the cured resin pulls itself tighter and tighter as it "shrinks" . Some bonds win and some loose. The result is crazing. 32 years of cross linking and I have a surface all across my decks that is cracked everywhere. There are stress cracks that are obviously involved in local movement but not necessarily failure. (That is another issue) The over curing also makes gelcoat more and more brittle over time so movement that used to be absorbed by the "new" more elastic gelcoat starts to cause cracks. The FG hull is not loosing its flexibility at nearly this rate if at all and is a strong matrix of cloth and resin so the crazing cracks at the surface are limited to the gelcoat coating.

I want to "fix it". My complaint about it is that it gets dirty and is hard to clean. I am not concerned about a flake of white gelcoat needing to be repaired occasionally. I want to fill the cracks. Not necessarily to make them disappear but to seal out moisture and make them shallower and "softer" so they do not look darker than the surrounding surface.

I have decided to use a 2 part urethane, flattened and thinned enough to gain good penetration. I will scrub the entire deck with a coarse Scotch Pad and or bronze brush. Working on small sections I can choose "cut in" lines that find the edges of texture or hatches. I don't want to fill the non-skid texture or sand it down. I could get fancy and paint things a couple of colors. Grey for the non-skid and white in between but that is a lot of additional work. If I decide that the cracks need to be panited again to reduce them further I can play with colors next year.

Now to find a color white that matches a 32 year old white gelcoat. On-Off makes it nice and white and etches it a little so that might be included in my pre painting prep.

No Sanding or Grinding down anything for this. Scrubbing and a bronze wire brush for the general surface. I do not need a gelcoat replacement just a crack filling and sealing.

George

George,
Good luck with this, having worked with the two part urethanes I just can't see this working. All the two part urethanes want to be applied over an epoxy primer. I'm betting that you're going to wind up with something that looks a whole lot worse than what you have now, after a year two. However I'd really like to hear how it works out, because the world certainly is waiting for a GOOD solution to this problem!

Gary H. Lucas

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GaryHLucas

· #23 · Oct 18, 2009

cardiacpaul said:
Gary,
I understand exactly what you mean.
I've got the same attitude, and its only when I'm hanging upside down with a fuel barb, or exhaust elbow poking me for a couple of hours, barked up knuckles, fiberglass in places I forgot I had, the realization that I've got to hike my sorry butt up the mast again...

Then, and only then do the neurons fire... "what the hell was I thinking?"

I should take my own advise, eh? LOL.
And I miss it. terribly.

Paul,
I really don't mind working on the boat, in fact I enjoy the challenge of not just repairing something but often finding a better way to do it. What bothers me is I really do enjoy sailing too, and the work is cutting into the sailing!

I took vacation time this week. I was working on the cast iron keel this morning. I pulled it off the boat this time last year and got it sandblasted this week and I'm epoxy coating it and fairing it. My hope is that done right it will last long enough that 'I' won't ever being doing it again. After all it is 25 years old now and apparently never got pulled for servicing before!

I rebuilt the rudder too. I split it in half, got the shaft welded up, put it all back together, and foamed it. So that's ready to go back on in the spring.

I've already replaced the head and the holding tank, and through bolted the jib sheet track. I had the anchor sand blasted and regalvanized too.

Later this week the winter cover is going on, and I raised it so there is room to work underneath. I have new cockpit seats already made from Starboard, that I intend to install shortly, and the fixed ports will be coming off and replaced with new plexiglass.

I don't trust the Volvo saildrive much, though it runs perfectly. I have an inflatable dinghy with a 2005 Johnson outboard. I also have two Harken main sheet tracks and four cars, so I'm going to make a rail mount for the dinghy motor that will extend all the way down into the water on the stern. If the Volvo dies the dinghy motor can take over. It should make loading the motor onto the dinghy in the water easy too.

So progress is being made. The mast will get new wiring and a new VHF antennna when it goes back up too. I rigged up an A-frame and took it down by myself. It'll be going back up the same way.

Putting the boat back in the water is my main goal right now. The deck can wait!

Gary H. Lucas

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GaryHLucas

· #27 · Oct 18, 2009

George,
So you are saying you have already done this and gotten good results? I find that very encouraging, because I am not interested in a shiny new look either, just a well sealed deck. It is after all a 25 year old boat. My only concern is trying something that doesn't work, and having to do it all over again! THAT would be *****!

You mention and On-Off etch. Are you talking about the cleaner that is called On & Off? I believe it is muriatic acid based, and would probably etch the surface slightly. Do you neutralize it somehow, or just flush the heck out of it with fresh water?

Gary H. Lucas

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GaryHLucas

· #32 · Oct 21, 2009

downeast450 said:
Yes, The On-Off cleaner. I will wash it well before I paint it and a final alcohol wipe to dry the area where I am working. I expect no problems. Perhaps I will take some photos. My catboat deck , interior and boot stripe were Awlgripped this way 20 years ago and still look fine. I used a roller and a brush.

George

George,
I really WOULD like to see some photos!

Gary H. Lucas

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