[Bruce3966]

Well I just couldn't take it anymore. It got to 35 degrees so I uncovered my new boat (tub as some would say) and moved it into my garage to start putzing on it. I have a question on my Harken Traveler because right now I am not impressed (at least on my P165). I put the rudder/tiller on and the tiller either has to go way above the traveler or underneath it so...you either stand up and way up to steer or you have to sit down and not up at all. Not impressed so here is my question...am I missing something or is this a normal issue with having one and are they really worth it? Without the Cunningham the tiller would go inbetween the main sheet lines and have more up and down movement availability.

Next questions is:

Previous owner has a clam cleat on each side of the cockpit on the coaming which he used for the 150 Genoa--makes sense. I believe the boat came with cam cleats on top of the cabin and pulleys down stream which according to the manual (and You Tube videos I have watched on the P165) these are used for the jib lines..makes sense again however, PO had one marked Cunningham and the other marked downhaul...sort of makes sense. I am trying to figure out what he used or how he tied down and constantly trimmed the jib with these cam cleats being used for the Cunningham and downhaul or does one really have a jib line in their hands at ALL times?

As far as the topping lift..still have to figure that out and the boom vang as well. The You Tube vidoes with others sailing the 165 show the boom vang line just hanging into the companionway area so I am assuming it has a block lock somehow. REMEMBER, still learning!

I need to figure out not only how he or how I should control jib lines but also the line(s) to reef.

Being a newbie (and reading several articles stating the 165 sails pretty nice with just the main up), I am sure my first sail will be only with the main.

 

[Faster]

You have enough posts to put up links.. suggest you join Photobucket.com, upload your pics to that site, then paste the IMG code to load your pics into your posts..

It will be much easier to advise if we can see what's what....

 

[SHNOOL]

Definitely need pictures.. the p165 didn't ship with a traveler. Only location where you could put one I can think of is on the transom. I could see why someone would want one, but the location would be tricky.

 

[Bruce3966]

Yup, it be on the transom and makes things tight. I attached photos.

 

[Faster]

That doesn't look like a well thought out setup. I can see your issues. As Shnool alluded to I'd be tempted to get rid of or somehow modify it.

Btw the photobucket method puts up better sized images and no need to click a thumbnail.

 

[Capt Len]

Taller arch

 

[SHNOOL]

I'd be tempted to switch it out to a barney post configuration and a vang. Vang to adjust twist, and mainsheet only to get angle of attack. Problem with that is you cannot have a loose vang, and a boom on center, but lifted. It'd kill point, on a boat that already suffers from poor point (shallow wing keel).

 

[PaulinVictoria]

Tiller extension for when you want to stand up.
Perhaps he never used a jib and so didn't need the cabin top cleats and re-purposed them for cunningham/downhaul.
Vang usually goes from boom to base of mast, with a cam cleat at one end.
Find someone locally who has a clue about a sailboat and see if they'll spend an hour or two helping you out for a case of beer I'll come over if you pay my flight lol

 

[aloof]

The dinghy sheeting arrangement in the first photo is way better than a traveller. Get rid of it. Too complicated and expensive.

 

[SHNOOL]

No, the barney is a device for a space constrained cockpit. There really is no substitute for a decent traveler, but if you don't have the proper space, the barney is a better compromise than some of the 2 or 3 point mainsheet systems I've seen (including the one the P165 was designed originally with).

 

[paulk]

I like PiV's idea about a tiller extension for standing up. It might be tricky to attach it to the tiller with the "self-steering" lines rigged the way they are. (I'd be tempted to get rid of them, or only rig them when you were sailing alone and needed them.) Since the traveler appears to be pretty much there for the duration and looks pretty functional, taking it out would simply be unnecessary work - and then you'd have to rig up something else instead. KISS. If you don't like the idea of a swiveling tiller extension, you could try bolting a tubular loop to the top of the tiller so you could steer by grabbing the top of it instead of having to hold the tiller itself.

 

[Bruce3966]

Hmmm, tempted to yank it out for another reason....when I am anchored or even in my slip and just relaxing dreaming of retirement, with this installed I can't even tilt the tiller up to get it out of the way. Yup I could swing it all the way one way but then it talkes up a seating space (or my nap space).

The block and other orginal swivel is still nstalled on the transom. I swear the PO had no way to cleat the mainsheet at all..??? I think I will just order a rachet swivel cam and the wedge kit and call it good.

I truly plan on putting a bimini on but not sure how quit yet.

 

[Bruce3966]

I'm getting ready to cut that Harken Traveler out. Question on the swivel base that's in there (phota attached), do you think a Harken Hexarachet 019 will fit right onto here if I choose to go that way and/or do you think the swivel camcleat base goes right over this and then a block secured to this swivel base (I will use cotter pins) if I choose to go that way?

Make sense--still learning. I have tried to view some close up images of this online but haven't found one yet. I think the P165 came with the swivel camcleat base but not sure. I know I would not be happy having my tiller so low all the time and with the P165 having a boomvang, when I get good enough to adjust the boom on a close haul then I will adjust the boom vang (isn't that really what a traveler is for)?. Not sure how long it will take me to learn everything but at least a few summers before I feel confident probably.

 

[sprega]

I'd be tempted to switch it out to a barney post configuration and a vang. Vang to adjust twist, and mainsheet only to get angle of attack. Problem with that is you cannot have a loose vang, and a boom on center, but lifted. It'd kill point, on a boat that already suffers from poor point (shallow wing keel).

http://www.chapmanbaitandtackle.net/pics/capri-
14.2_improvements/dscf0688.jpg

What Shnool said. Best option.

 

[Bruce3966]

Can the Barney post be mounted on the transom? Also, the boat has a vang if you want to call it that...maybe it has a different name when all there is are blocks and a line from the mast to the boom.

 

[SHNOOL]

A vang is just a multiple purchase line that usually attaches to the boom and the base of the mast... it pulls the boom down at an angle (or more specifically prevents the boom from lifting past a certain height)... It has a multiple purchase (on your boat it's probably 3/16" line or 1/4") line is attached to the mast so that it provides essentially the same downward force regardless of angle of attack (of the boom).

Barney can be mounted anywhere, but I am a huge fan of placing mainsheet controls so the skipper stays facing forward. Reason is, you can then watch ahead of you (collisions, wakes, waves, puffs, shadows) while having one hand on the tiller and one on the mainsheet (puffs you'll want to dump the mainsheet). If you build a barney post in the center of the cockpit floor make sure to reinforce it with a metal backing plate, on the P165, you could probably get away with a 8"x8". Bolt through it, not screws.

Barney post...
Catalina Direct: Aluminum Barney Post O-14, CP-14.2, C-15

Harken swivel cam...
Catalina Direct: Harken Swivel Base & Cleat

These options are what are used on the Capri 18, which is really a 20 foot boat. The Capri 18 in my estimation is a better "rigged" boat than the P165. The Capri 18 is heavier and slower though.

Here's a great setup on a Catalina 22...

This is a Capri 14.2 (my bad it looks like a 16.5 same boat but bigger), but the rigging is the same... Just don't copy that triangle attachment point... it should have a fixed apex, not a block that rolls back and forth (port to starboard), that was a poor design.

 

[Bruce3966]

One interesting fact I have learned about sailing is one can rig his/her boat the way they like it. I always thought there was one specific way to rig a sailboat. With that said and even though I understand that a middle cockpit main sheet makes sense, I could never rig mine that way. A sailboat is so limited in space as it is I can't see how a mainsheet sitting in the middle of a cockpit would not drive someone crazy. Always stepping over it, tripping etc. Just my opinion.

I would rather have a non cleated transom mount main sheet and keep the line in my hand 100% of the time.

What is the purpose of the Barney Post...just a height thing?

 

[aloof]

The two sheets on the transom are the best, simplest, lightest, cheapest way to go. It's a tiny sail. It eliminates the traveller, the cockpit post, vang and allows the boom to be centered an the leech shaped as necessary. Pull the boom to the centerline with the top sheet. Pull the leech tight with the bottom sheet. That traveller is overkill. For racing with crew you might go to the fancy sheeting and vang. You won't go any faster but it will give the crew something to do...

The relaxing in the shade of a bimini is the best idea. The transom sheeting won't get in the way of that.

 

[Faster]

It will only 'get rid of the Vang' when close hauled or nearly so. Beyond that you start to lose downward component on the mainsheet, esp beyond and below a reach. A vang is also extremely important to managing gybes - even in a small boat.

I do agree a traveler may be overkill on such a rig. But twin sheets are rather cumbersome too esp when tacking often

 

[Bruce3966]

Well if anybody is sailing Saginaw Bay off Lake Huron and you see a P165 with luffed sails or heeling 50 degrees or do an uncontrolled gybe, that's probably me so sail on over and say hi--or laugh!

If I go the summer without capsizing, I will consider it to be a good summer.