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1999 Beneteau 50
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm trying to decide if DIY installation is worth the time and effort. I've priced PlasTeak at about $8K for the custom-made mats, or $5K for the DIY rolls of material that you join together similar to hardwood flooring (but more complicated). If anyone has actually tried this, I'm wondering if it's practical for a 50 foot sailboat with kingplanks an all sorts of other interesting patterns to make.

It seems like all the posts are about which brand to buy but none about actual installation.

I was originally thinking about replacing the old teak with Kiwigrip but am concerned about the aesthetics, not to mention resale value.
 

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Farr 11.6 (Farr 38)
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I can't speak to the installation question in any detail, but I would mainly like to comment on the resale issue that you raised near the end..

My only comment on the installation issue is that the preparation for some of these systems is actually more demanding than the prep for paint.

To explain. Some of the faux teak decks are self-adhering. And those require perfect preparation in order for the thin layer of adhesive to properly bond to the deck below, and also not telegraph any irregularities.

Other systems, use a trowel or roll on adhesive with gap bridging properties. While harder to apply those systems can escape some of the prep issues that come with the self adhering systems.

The preferences for a teak deck or not seems to be a regional thing and a very personal preference thing. The European marketplace seems to have a much stronger preference for teak decks, or faux teak decks than North America and perhaps the rest of the world.

For example. Beneteau told me that they just about can't sell teaked decked models in North America and even minimize the teak from the cockpit of boats intended to be sold in North American vs. a large percentage of the boats sold in the EU opt for teak decks. The same is true for J-boats.

So in terms of resale, I would suggest that adding the faux teak decks should be seen through a lens based on where you plan to sell the boat as well as your own preferences.

Regarding Kiwigrip. I did homework on using Kiwigrip for my own boat. I think that it is a good product and looks good when it is applied carefully. ( I will note that my boat had decks that still had molded in non-skid, and which had been painted previously painted. So this may not fully apply to your case.)

I ended up painting my decks with a conventional paint because the boats I had seen with Kiwigrip looked a little more amateurish than boats with non-skid paint jobs.

In terms of resale my feeling is that Kiwigrip makes sense on older less valuable boats where nothing will raise the sales price above a low threshold. But, my sense is that Kiwigrip potentially diminishes the value of a bigger more expensive boat.

If you are in a marketplace where teak decks are valued, my sense is that the more expensive custom plank layout will add to something to resale value, but even if it doesn't add the full cost difference, it would make the faux teak more appealing to a larger group of buyers so potentially the boat might sell more quickly.

Jeff
 

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1999 Beneteau 50
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Jeff.

I will note that my boat had decks that still had molded in non-skid, and which had been painted previously painted. So this may not fully apply to your case.
Are you saying that you were able to salvage the molded nonskid underneath your teak? That would really be my preference but I think it will get damaged when I remove the old teak not to mention all of the grooves will be be filled with adhesive.
 

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Farr 11.6 (Farr 38)
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I am sorry, I probably should have made that point more clearly. My boat never had teak decks. That is what I meant to by saying that my experience does not fully correspond to your situation. I only intended to mention my boat's project decisions in reference to your question about using Kiwigrip and my perception of how Kiwigrip might impact resale value.

I don't really know how the deck below your teak is finished and whether you can remove the teak without damaging the non-skid, or even if there is non-skid under the teak. If you haven't spoken with Beneteau, you want to might contact Beneteau to see what their thoughts are. In the past I have exceptional services out of Bene3teau's legacy tech support.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks again. I have already contact Beneteau and confirmed that there is molded nonskid beneath. Most sources say it is not salvageable. I might try removing a small section to confirm this.
 

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Farr 11.6 (Farr 38)
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You may already have done this, but it could prove helpful to determine what specific sealant/adhesive Beneteau used. Depending on the specific adhesive you may be able to use chemical strippers and poltice the deck in order avoid a mechanical method that is potentially more likely to damage.

Of course the problem greatly escalates if the sealant contains silicone which gets into the pores of the gelcoat and potentially makes adhesion of new finishes much less reliable.

I don't envy you but wish you the best of luck with your project.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
They said they used a product called PU-50 to glue it to the deck, as well as a ton of screws to hold it in place for gluing. It's a one-part polyeurethane, similar to 5200.
 

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It would seem like the preparation process would need to address at least a two or three part challenge; First removing the PU-50, then dealing with the screw holes, and ultimately potentially dealing with deck core issues at the fastenings depending on the water tightness of the fastening penetrations and the core materials. And all of that is before you decide what to do with the non-skid pattern. The closely spaced fastenings would suggest that you probably will not be able to salvage the original molded in non-skid pattern.

Regarding that process, I believe that PU-50 is a family of urethane based adhesive/ sealants. I had not heard of it being used in the marine production industry, but I guess that should not surprise me. In my experience, flexible urethanes tend to make sanding very difficult since they quickly clog sandpaper. That would suggest that you will probably need to use a chemical stripper to remove the urethane. Sikaflex makes a high quality chemical urethane remover that is supposed to compatible with Polyester resins, There are also urethane removers used in other industries like construction. They would probably be more affordable, but I don't know how effective they are and whether they play well with polyester gelcoat, and laminating resins.

The fastening holes are tough, especially if you wanted to end up with a gelcoat or painted (Kiwigrip) deck. My guess is that they will need to be reamed open and filled. That can probably be done with thickened polyester if you are overcoating with a waterproof material. But getting a good seal and stabile adhesion won't be easy.

Of course things get way more complex and expensive if of the fastenings have been leaking and the core has become damaged. The worst part of that is that you probably cannot fully detect that condition until the teak has been removed, and at that point, there is no turning back.

Maybe 30 years ago, I faced addressing a similar problem on a small race boat with a slew of abandoned bolt holes in the deck and very ineffective non-skid. For a while I leaned towards grinding down the original non-skid gelcoat to a level and fair surface., I was planning to apply new gelcoat to the deck and use Gibco Flex Mold Gibco Flex-Mold, Non Skid Surfaces to create a factory looking gelcoat pattern. Gibco makes both male and female molding materials. I was considering the female molding material, where you troweled on gelcoat, then rolled the female material over the wet gelcoat to mold in the non-skid pattern.

I decided that it was a great way to go, but that the boat in question was not worth the expense and effort (i.e. resale value of less than $3-4 K). We ended up filling the holes with thickened resin (I don't recall whether epoxy or polyester) and simply painting the deck with a scattered sand non-skid. It looked okay and was a vast improvement over the original non-skid, but I don't see that as an optimum way to go on a more valuable boat because it definitely looked like a after the fact solution rather than a factory, or high end post production solution.

Jeff
 

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Re-doing a deck is a major project, requiring skill and time and a mine field of perils. Perhaps the simplest is to properly fill all holes and then paint on a non skid material and call it a day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
We had the boat shrink wrapped so we can start on removal in the PNW winter. Either way, the teak must come off; it's too far gone. We knew this when we bought the boat and it was priced accordingly. However, if we go the synthetic route, I need it on to create the patterns. I think that's where removing a small sample is probably the best way to start. I was thinking about starting with the coach roof section on the foredeck. It's maybe 50 sqft.

I will have to check out Gibco Flex Mold.... Would be great if it could reproduce the factory nonskid look.

Initially we were leaning towards painted nonskid, which I think would meet our needs. But I also want to do what's right by the boat and future owners, if that makes any sense.
 

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Yes. The synthetic teaks can be good. My preference is for the ones that are all one material, sealant stripes and boards both. This allows for refinishing with a belt sander to look like new when one goes to sell. The ones that mix sealant and synthetic boards such as a by the strip installation I am less a fan of for longevity.
I do not like the self adhesive ones, when something goes wrong you're in the glue, literally.
With ones bedded in adhesive if you spot a flaw after laying it you can solve the issue easily, it's amazing how often a bit of grit you didn't spot will be there and telegraph through.

Oh also, please stay away from the cork "teak". Horrid stuff. Never seen one that looked good >2 years.
 

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I'm trying to decide if DIY installation is worth the time and effort. I've priced PlasTeak at about $8K for the custom-made mats, or $5K for the DIY rolls of material that you join together similar to hardwood flooring (but more complicated). If anyone has actually tried this, I'm wondering if it's practical for a 50 foot sailboat with kingplanks an all sorts of other interesting patterns to make.

It seems like all the posts are about which brand to buy but none about actual installation.

I was originally thinking about replacing the old teak with Kiwigrip but am concerned about the aesthetics, not to mention resale value.
I have an original teak deck that is still in a reasonable shape, although a rehabilitation project is planned for the spring. A friend in the NL, with similar boat (Contest 43), just finished the replacement of his teak deck with a synthetic teak-like material. It took them hundreds of hours, as there are a lot of different shapes, patterns, frames etc. I think ordering custom made mats would be a better decision. As for the removal of the existing teak, guess, Beneteau, used a much thinner lumber without screws (unlike my deck), so the removal of screws, which is the biggest pain is saved for you. As for the removal of the glued deck, I have seen quite massive scrapers in use, at least for the large areas - like those used to remove glued ceramic floor and they worked well. At any case, I would look at scrapers much more than sanders as a way to remove and flatten the deck.

Not sure what adhesive is offered by PlasTeak, as I have seen in their manual a process to use screws, covered by plugs, into the sub floor, which is something you really don’t want to do and where they write that the material can’t be glued - but this may be related to a different product they have. The thicker the glue is, the more forgiving the surface can be with the new decking.

Will be interesting to see how your project proceeds.

Best of luck!
 

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I'm trying to decide if DIY installation is worth the time and effort. I've priced PlasTeak at about $8K for the custom-made mats, or $5K for the DIY rolls of material that you join together similar to hardwood flooring (but more complicated). If anyone has actually tried this, I'm wondering if it's practical for a 50 foot sailboat with kingplanks an all sorts of other interesting patterns to make.

It seems like all the posts are about which brand to buy but none about actual installation.

I was originally thinking about replacing the old teak with Kiwigrip but am concerned about the aesthetics, not to mention resale value.
Installation for all of them is about the same the best thing is to make a template and have them pre-make the panels electronically welded together a plastic is garbage the color is it is it is terrible and it’s not realistic looking I use Flexiteek it has some actual wood in it and it’s a better product it’s more UV resistant and it looks more natural I thought a lot of people with my flight with Flexiteek
 

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I can't speak to the installation question in any detail, but I would mainly like to comment on the resale issue that you raised near the end..

My only comment on the installation issue is that the preparation for some of these systems is actually more demanding than the prep for paint.

To explain. Some of the faux teak decks are self-adhering. And those require perfect preparation in order for the thin layer of adhesive to properly bond to the deck below, and also not telegraph any irregularities.

Other systems, use a trowel or roll on adhesive with gap bridging properties. While harder to apply those systems can escape some of the prep issues that come with the self adhering systems.

The preferences for a teak deck or not seems to be a regional thing and a very personal preference thing. The European marketplace seems to have a much stronger preference for teak decks, or faux teak decks than North America and perhaps the rest of the world.

For example. Beneteau told me that they just about can't sell teaked decked models in North America and even minimize the teak from the cockpit of boats intended to be sold in North American vs. a large percentage of the boats sold in the EU opt for teak decks. The same is true for J-boats.

So in terms of resale, I would suggest that adding the faux teak decks should be seen through a lens based on where you plan to sell the boat as well as your own preferences.

Regarding Kiwigrip. I did homework on using Kiwigrip for my own boat. I think that it is a good product and looks good when it is applied carefully. ( I will note that my boat had decks that still had molded in non-skid, and which had been painted previously painted. So this may not fully apply to your case.)

I ended up painting my decks with a conventional paint because the boats I had seen with Kiwigrip looked a little more amateurish than boats with non-skid paint jobs.

In terms of resale my feeling is that Kiwigrip makes sense on older less valuable boats where nothing will raise the sales price above a low threshold. But, my sense is that Kiwigrip potentially diminishes the value of a bigger more expensive boat.

If you are in a marketplace where teak decks are valued, my sense is that the more expensive custom plank layout will add to something to resale value, but even if it doesn't add the full cost difference, it would make the faux teak more appealing to a larger group of buyers so potentially the boat might sell more quickly.

Jeff
I agree. I bought a boat with teak decks and love them and am having them updated. But when they get beyond that and am told to replace them, I will put some kind of grip decks on the boat. Teak is easy to maintain in salt water, just get them wet and use a not too stiff brush to keep them clean. But so are nonskid decks.
 

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I agree. I bought a boat with teak decks and love them and am having them updated. But when they get beyond that and am told to replace them, I will put some kind of grip decks on the boat. Teak is easy to maintain in salt water, just get them wet and use a not too stiff brush to keep them clean. But so are nonskid decks.
Right. Just one comment - never use any brush, even not a soft one and definitely only across the teak grain. The better way is using a non abrasive white pad on a mop. It is quick and safe way.

There are ways to rehabilitate an existing old teak deck. These are involved with some work in removing popped out screws epoxy injection and plugging with a new bungs. Removing deteriorated caulking and recaulking, as long as the teak itself is not badly damaged or lifted. This can easily add at least 10-15 more years if properly done. I have seen 50 years old original teak decks in the NL that still look great.

and when the time comes to replace, I would definitely go with a quality synthetic teak-like decking - for many original boats, this is part of their core design and “personality”.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Photos of our deck. I'm still researching products. If replacing all of the decks with synthetic is too costly, I'd at least like to do the coachroof. I'm also looking into the Gibco Flex Mold. They actually have a product called ReDeck which is basically sheets of nonskid that you epoxy onto the deck and then paint.

Hood Bicycle tire Vehicle Aviation Vehicle door

Automotive parking light Automotive lighting Hood Vehicle Automotive tire

Photograph Vehicle White Light Motor vehicle

Boat Boats and boating--Equipment and supplies Vehicle Wood Naval architecture

Boat Vehicle Naval architecture Hood Motor vehicle
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Update. I finally tried removing the teak this morning. We removed all of the caulking and most of the screws and today I tried removing the teak using an oscilating tool and a scraping blade. It was a complete fail. The planks are bonded so tightly to the gel coat that the blade was ineffective. I tried the hammer and chisel approach and it just cut into the gel coat. Fortunately I only managed to destroy a few square inches.

I think my next attempt will be to plane it off using a power planer. Wish me luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I think we've finally come up with a system that works. First step is to plane down the planks as much as possible without disturbing the gelcoat. Then, using a heat gun and the oscilating tool, cut horizontally under the planks to release the bond. Thinning the plans with the planer allows the heat to loosen up the bond, making it easier on the blade. It's tedious, but seems to be working. I will have a huge mess on my hands when the teak is gone. I'm hoping to find a chemical I can use to clean out the remaining adhesive from the surface. I'm sure whatever we use, it will be toxic and potentially combustible and with the shrink wrap, there's no ventilation.

Also, all of this work is currently taking place above my 16yo daughter's stateroom. She says that the planer noise is ear-shattering from below.

Brown Wood Floor Flooring Material property
 

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Also, all of this work is currently taking place above my 16yo daughter's stateroom. She says that the planer noise is ear-shattering from below.
Tell Miss 16 its much quieter up on deck helping you!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats one big job. Good luck with it.
 
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