[Mimsy]

The surveyor gave us a thumbs up on the initial inspection so now we are on to haul out survey and sea trial on Wednesday. Barring any problems with delamination, severe blisters, engine issues or the keel, this should be our last go round in the hunt for our boat.

We may need to replace the standing rigging which is not something we had planned on. Have to figure out a ballpark cost to do this so we can adequately prepare for the partial refit we have planned. This might mean that aesthetic issues I would prefer to have addressed have to wait but what can you do? We love this little boat and the heart has reasons the mind can not comprehend.

I will be bitterly, bitterly disappointed if this one doesn't work. Every other boat has been either something the ARE likes and I didn't or vice versa. This one hits the sweet spot for both of us...fingers crossed here and I am spitting like mad!

 

[JomsViking]

Good luck. Fingers crossed!

 

[sailingdog]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you and the ARE... Good luck...

PS. Spit downwind...

 

[scottyt]

from what i have seen if you get a rigger to make each shroud or stay with a swag fitting on one end, and a staylock or what what ever swagless you want on the bottom end, then install them yourself you are looking at an average of 100 per wire for a 27 footer. basicly it means you will be going up the mast 4 or 5 times thou.

basicly, you go up the mast, remove the back stay, attach the new one, come down cut it to length and attach. go back up do the fore stay the same way. go back up do the shrouds etc etc. make sure you support the mast with a halyard while you remove each one. this might take you 2 days unless you can get up the mast with out tiring you or the wincher running you up.

another option is to rent a cherry picker, then doing them in one day is easy, because you can now do 2 each trip up because there is no person swinging around up there. if you do the cherry picker method try talking to others at the marina, you might get them to pay some of the price for things like anchor light bulb change outs

 

[sailingdog]

Umm... I think you're confused or posting in the wrong thread... Mimsy and her ARE are looking at a 42' boat IIRC, a Tattosh 42.

from what i have seen if you get a rigger to make each shroud or stay with a swag fitting on one end, and a staylock or what what ever swagless you want on the bottom end, then install them yourself you are looking at an average of 100 per wire for a 27 footer. basicly it means you will be going up the mast 4 or 5 times thou.

basicly, you go up the mast, remove the back stay, attach the new one, come down cut it to length and attach. go back up do the fore stay the same way. go back up do the shrouds etc etc. make sure you support the mast with a halyard while you remove each one. this might take you 2 days unless you can get up the mast with out tiring you or the wincher running you up.

another option is to rent a cherry picker, then doing them in one day is easy, because you can now do 2 each trip up because there is no person swinging around up there. if you do the cherry picker method try talking to others at the marina, you might get them to pay some of the price for things like anchor light bulb change outs

 

[scottyt]

i was not sure what size boat or even what boat. but she said they needed a ballpark idea of rigging price, so i gave what i knew, with the qualifications of stating the 27 footer.

 

[Mimsy]

Thanks Scotty, that is helpful. Since we are new to this boat and the ARE hasn't rigged before we are planning on finding a great rigger and taking it on the chin. We are specifically looking for one who will be comfortable with us watching and asking lots of questions.

The ARE has a knack for figuring out just about anything on the fly once he has an idea of what is the correct procedure. Its worth the cost to us to not only get the rigging done properly but to get the education as well.

 

[sailingdog]

ahh... that makes sense. It'll be a bit more for 42' boat though.

Mimsy-

I'd recommend getting a copy of Brion Toss's The Complete Rigger's Apprentice... good book for the ARE to dig through.

i was not sure what size boat or even what boat. but she said they needed a ballpark idea of rigging price, so i gave what i knew, with the qualifications of stating the 27 footer.

 

[nk235]

Goodluck with the survey and I will keep my fingers crossed for you. I know how it feels as I don't think I slept the night before my survey fearing the surveyor would find some crazy problem hidden from the untrained eye!

Let us know how it goes and goodluck!

 

[KeelHaulin]

OK; why not negotiate the value of the boat because it needs a re-rig? Then YOU won't take it on the chin, the seller will (and should). If the negotiated price is way below market to begin with then forget what I just said; but generally the asking price has not accounted for the need to re-rig.

 

[Mimsy]

They are pretty adamant that they won't go lower on the price. We are paying a bit more than we should because everything else on the boat has been beautifully maintained.

If the rerigging is a comparatively small expense, its not worth ruffling feathers over since we really do like the boat. If we are looking at starting from scratch with chainplate rebeds, etc, that's another story and we would either reneogtiate or walk.

Edited to add: The owner is claming a rerigging in 2004 which further complicates things because in his mind it was JUST rerigged. No matter this was 5 years ago and we've had a hurricane and there is obvious wear and tear on the rigging. It looks like his rerigging consisted of replacing a few items here and there but to him, its been rerigged.

 

[KeelHaulin]

Well it was either fully re-rigged or technically it was not. If you do a partial job it is not something you can fully trust. For a proper re-rig you would want all turnbuckles, tangs, forks, pins, fittings, and of course all shrouds/stays replaced; in addition to mast and chainplate inspection and re-bedding.

I understand on your price considerations; but if you are already paying "more than you should" then the value of the standing rigging is a negotiation point. A 42' boat aint cheap to re-rig; especially if you hire a rigger. My 41' boat was re-rigged just prior to purchase and it had a total bill of over 15k (rigger only); but that included a roller furler, running rigging, and lifelines. If ~10-15k is a small amount relative to your total purchase price then I understand your non-concern about the rigging expenses relative to the purchase, but otherwise it should come into consideration on overall value.

 

[Mimsy]

Oh, I am concerned. I'm just trying to figure out a way to approach this without pissing off the seller. Probably, we will offer to split the cost.

 

[nk235]

Keelhauling and I actually commented about rigging on a similar thread last week and disagreed or had slightly different opinions on negotiating down the price of the boat based on the need to replace the rigging. I said it usually doesn't happen or in many cases is reflected in the price of the boat anyway.

In this case it is a complete different story! Rule of thumb is to replace your rigging every 10 years, but rigging usually never really looks bad at the 10 year mark - it is just proactive maintenance. Heck my 25 year old rigging which I am replacing now would pass any visual inspection. The fact that 4-5 year old rigging looks bad and has problems is a big problem and it needs to be replaced as it was probably never done right or the boat was damaged or not tuned correctly. Also the fact that the seller already told you is final price and it is higher than market listing prices. I would 100% negotiate for the cost of the rigging replacement.

I know how you feel about falling in love with the boat, wanting to move forward and trying to look past the rigging issue because the rest of the boat is in such good shape BUT it is something that needs to be done! If the owner of the boat knows his stuff then he will understand your request. If he doesn't and is ignorant it is your job to explain it to him and make it seem as if it is something that is going to prevent you from moving forward with the boat. Remember it is a huge buyers market now and just as much as you are committed into buying this boat, he is committed into selling it and getting his hopes up that the deal will go. You have to use that to your advantage.

 

[KeelHaulin]

Is it wire or rod rigging? The 15k was for wire on a masthead sloop; rod would cost even more. I would get a good written quote from a rigger before you counter-offer. If your surveyor is not qualified to survey the rig then you should at least get rigger to quote the cost to re-rig; or better yet a rigging survey. That way you know what it will cost; and the seller will know that your offer is relative to the cost associated with re-rigging.

Splitting the cost for the re-rig is often done; but if any cost over-runs occur it could be on your end unless it is done pre-purchase (any problems with mast step or chainplates/bulkheads). I don't know the ins/outs of this since my boat was done a year before I bought it.

 

[nk235]

Oh, I am concerned. I'm just trying to figure out a way to approach this without pissing off the seller. Probably, we will offer to split the cost.

Also don't offer to split the cost. Know that this is eventually what you wouldn't mind settling for but start the negotiations with him taking off the full price - then work your back. If your offer to spit the cost you will wind up paying 3/4 or the whole thing yourself.

 

[Cruisingdad]

Good luck with everything!! Let us know how it turns out. She looks beautiful in pics!!

Brian

 

[KeelHaulin]

Yes; or you could make an offer "contingent on full re-rig; with oversight by surveyor"; or something similar. That way you get ALL of the work done and are assured that you won't pay more than 1/2 of what the rigging quote was. When you pull the mast you never know what you will find; bad mast step, bad chainplates, etc. That's not to say it can't be fixed or the boat is a bad boat overall; just that there may be more to fix than just the wire.

What pictures CD??

 

[Cruisingdad]

What pictures CD??

I have seen pics of the boat. She is pretty.

Brian

 

[Mimsy]

What makes it a bit of a sticky wicket is that even with the necessary bottom job and rerigging, plus the generous estimated cost to outfit her for our purposes, we are spot on what our original budget for a boat was.

We've looked at hundreds of boats, had offers and deposits on 4 other boats that failed the survey test but we never felt like any of the previous boats were a perfect fit. Either it met my husbands needs or it met mine, but someone was having to live with something that they majorly disliked. This one is a perfect fit and is the first one we are in total agreement on. That alone is worth a 5% premium to us. It also complicates things that this a relatively rare boat and currently the only other model for sale is in the Phillipines. That one has a bit more equipment that we need, is 10k less for their asking price but it has not been as well maintained and it would require 20k to move it here. 20k pays for a lot of rigging...