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Heavy Weather Points of Sail

8132 Views 50 Replies 24 Participants Last post by  smackdaddy
I was hoping that you all could help me out with some feedback on handling heavy weather. I am realtively new to SN and in previous posts have mentioned that, while I have 25 years sailing experience, it has almost exclusively been as a day sailor within the shelter of Penobscot Bay. My father and I recently upgraded to Decision - a Baba 40, Bob Perry design out of the Ta Shing Boat Yard, cutter rig, 40' LOA, 12'10" beam, 29,000 lbs displacement) with the intention of doing more cruising. To that end, I returned yesterday from a 5 day, 4 night sail around Penobscot, Jericho, and Blue Hill Bays.

I had one realtively inexperienced crew with me for the first two days. The first day was mild 10-15 knots and we made it to Isle au Haut and anchored in Duck Harbor beyond which lies the gulf of Maine. My intention was to drop out into the Gulf on Day 2 and, with a forecast NW wind of 30 knots, hoped to make it down to Winter Harbor on Schoodic Point, a distance of about 35 nm to the northeast (I needed to travel more easterly for about 20 nm, then turn nne for 15 nm once I cleared the Duck Islands and headed to Winter Harbor) . As we came out from under the lee of Isle au Haut, it was immediately apparent that the winds were higher than forecast at 35 knots gusting to 40. As we moved further into open water the wind built so it was a steady 40 with gusts over 45. I had headed out under staysl only with the equivalent of one reef in the main (have inmast furling for the main - btw, kept remembering the inmast furling debate that CD started and thinking "I really don't want this thing to jam right now :D). I immediately put in the equivalent of a second reef and, as the wind built, a third reef shortly thereafter, but left the staysl up. With the northerly wind, my point of sail was slightly above beam-on.

My problem was wave height/period. The seas had been forecast at 4-6 ft which didn't overly concern me, but they ended up larger - I would put them at 7-10 (the observation buoy a couple miles further south recorded 13), very steep and tightly packed together and seemed to be starting to break. We were a couple hours into it and getting smacked around a fair amount at this point, took a couple of waves across the bow and then dropped off a couple waves - not a complete drop-off I suppose, but certainly not something I had experienced before. At this point I came as close as I care to a knock-down. It wasn't a knock down, the sails didn't go in the water, but we went way over to the point where some sea came into the cockpit on the leeward side (hard to do in this boat). I had enough, changed course and beat up under the outer most islands (Marshall and Long islands) to get cover from the sea (this put me in Toothacher Bay, which i had to laugh at) - took me a good 3 to 4 hours to go about 3 nm. Oh, and I put the engine on, took in the staysl and let out a reef in the main. While we had to cross those conditions a couple more times to work our way back into Jericho Bay, once I made Marshall Island, I was largely able to leadfrog from the lee of one island to the next - didn't cut the wind much, but the sea was more manageable. We were picking up another crew member that night and I emailed him to change the place as we weren't going to make winter harbor. Sorry, this is getting long - a couple questions that came out of this:

1. Was going beam-on a dumb idea in those conditions?
2. Beating into the waves/wind was no fun (buried the bow a couple times, another first) - I actually considered falling out into more open water - this would have allowed me to be on a close reach straight to Winter Harbor. My thinking was: (a) that if I got further from land, the seas might have more room to separate and be more manageable - I have no basis for this, but was briefly tempted by my theory - does that make sense to anybody?; (b) I Could be on a close reach, which seemed preferrable to beam-on or close-hauled and (c) I could still make my intended destination.
3. Did I leave the staysl up too long, or maybe I should have left it out for the duration for better balance.
4. My dumbest move - not pulling up the tender and lashing it to the deck before we left - my greatest fear once I was out there was that a wave would flip the inflatable and I'd end up having to just cut it loose - was amazed that it just bobbed like a cork and never was an issue.

Any thoughts about what I should have done differently would be appreciated. Sorry this got so long..
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AMac - HERE'S A LINK to one of the best Heavy Weather Sailing threads I've seen. Lots of tactics and discussion on various methods and techniques. Extremely informative.

I have also taken this opportunity to steal your story for the BFS thread. Thanks.
Thanks for the link. I had actually read some of that before I left. While I was out there, I kept remembering Omotako's line:

One absolute constant in ocean sailing - when you're out there, you deal with whatever gets chucked at you
Obviously what I saw wasn't close to what he was describing (60 knot winds, 30 ft waves) I did find it a useful mantra nontheless!
I sail in a lake - so I'm uber sheltered. I've sailed in 40 knots once with a double reefed main. And it was still too much for my C27. That was scary.

And I was working on the boat a few weeks ago at the slip when a 50 knot squall hit.

I love big wind. But that was truly frightening. Even in the slip! Then I add to that a seastate like you're talking about...

That's some serious stuff. I'm definitely not ready for that kind of sailing.

At 45, even with a double reefed main - did you feel overpowered? Is that when you broached? I'm still trying to figure out - besides a knockdown - at what point you should just drop the main altogether.
Andrew,

Not sure that it will help. but if you go to 48° North - The Sailing Magazine the oct issue may not be online today, but maybe tomorrow, there is an article on heavy wind sailing. BUT< heavy wind is described in that article as 20-40. 40+ as mentioned is a different animal. Still some good stuff in the article.

I picked up a paper version yesterday, the online usually does not show up until the 1st of the month. I can not tell if you are local to the puget sound region or not. but am assuming you are not!

Marty
blt2ski - thanks for the recommendation.

smack - I had put a 3rd reef into the main as the wind built to over 40. I was making very little headway, but kept feeling like it was the waves slowing me down as much as anything. in retrospect, I think I probably left the staysl up too long. I put the engine on when I tried coming about a couple of times, only to have the sea smack me back - fact is that I didn't have enough omentum to come about, which in retrospect makes me think I was overpowered and left the staysl up too long. Frankly, I was amazed at how basically calm I felt - the boat is built for ocean sailing and I had complete faith that the boat would be fine as long as I didn't do something too stupid....of course that was what worried me!
Heh-heh. Sounds like you did fine. I hope to have that calm when "Omatako's Law" kicks in on me someday.

One other question - when should you drop the main and leave a storm jib up, versus dropping the staysl and leaving the main up? I assume it depends on if you're running or beating?
smack,

Which to leave up does depend upon the which way you are going, along with how you boat handles different conditions. Unfortunately for most of us, we can only swag as to what we will do in those conditions, as most of us will be lucky or is that unlucky to be in conditions described but 1-3 times in our lives. To my way of thinking, not that I should be thinking. is to have a general plan, follow as best as you can, then after, figure out what went well, what went wrong, and what you could have done better.

Kind of the same thing that I did at FWB race two yrs ago, then followed thru last yr, and followed thru agin in March at another race before I had to drop out when the boom broke! Same as when Jodie went aground.

marty
What were the currents doing at the time? What you describe sounds (in my limited experience) like a strong current-against-wind situation, pretty common around here. My feeling about closely spaced, steep waves is that you've got to keep some drive for control and balance on a beat, and that heeling is better than being tossed about. I would say you did the right thing keeping up a scrap of main. Can you reef your staysail?
My usual response to getting caught out is to head for deeper water where I can decide on the proper heading to make the ride as "easy" as I can. I like the idea of lots of searoom to allow me to pick the best angle to the waves. As you go farther out the waves period is usually longer making for a more comfortable ride.
Andrew, was this heavy weather you experienced on Friday 9/25? We were out in Boothbay that day. I too had an inexperienced crew. We had a good run going downwind, but too much sail up for the beat back home.

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The tide was actuallly falling, which meant it was going with the wind (one of the things I couldn't quite figure out). My postion relative to the coast at that point was basically south and the wind was out of the north. I was guessing that the steepness of the waves and their tight spacing was due to the fact that they were just getting a chance to properly build and that as they moved further offshore, they would start to separate more - again, I have no real basis for this theory other than speculation. I have read here and other places of 15-20, 30 ft waves and can only surmise that they must have much greater separation and not be as steep, because at 7-10 ft these gave me a lot of trouble. I ultimately decided not to test my theory by moving further offshore as the near knockdown scared me and I didn't want to deal with the consequences if my theory turned out to be incorrect - I figured if I was wrong that I would be beating back into it for twice as long with possibly higher seas and more wind - no thanks.

As for the staysl, it's on a roller and I absolutely could have reefed it - that probably would have been the thing to do to maintain better balance. Honestly, part of my decision to take it in was that I had only one relatively inexperienced crew and he was starting to say he felt seasick, so i figured let's get it in rather than make him tack it back and forth.
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Catamount - that's definitely the same day, but out where I was the seas were all whitecapped and definitely larger this would have been 7-11 am. Sunday was great - managed to stay on a broad reach almost all day and had winds around 25 - was awesome!
hillerpd - thanks for the response. That's what I was guessing at, but like I said in my other response, I didn't want to be wrong about that! Great to know.
Catamount - that's definitely the same day, but out where I was the seas were all whitecapped and definitely larger this would have been 7-11 am. Sunday was great - managed to stay on a broad reach almost all day and had winds around 25 - was awesome!
Yeah, we had whitecaps too, but they don't show up in the photo because it's looking back downwind. The seas were not terribly large where we were because we were still in close to shore.

Just curious, what's the basis for your wind speed numbers? We certainly didn't see anything as high as 40 gusting 45, more like 20 to 25 gusting 25 to 30...
I was going off my instruments and making very little headway would say 2.5-3 knots, so while I'm not making an adjustment for apparent wind, I wouldn't think it's much. My position at the time was probably about 3 miles outside of Marshall/Swan and Long Islands in between Jericho Bay and Blue Hill Bays.
I sail a 'Perryboat' with similar configuation.

1. Was going beam-on a dumb idea in those conditions?
**** Probably. I find alternating between close and broad reaching is better for less roll. Most of these designs seem to be a bit 'top heavy' and with slow roll periods; beam reaching in heavy seas will give the maximum roll.

2. Beating into the waves/wind was no fun (buried the bow a couple times, another first) - I actually considered falling out into more open water - this would have allowed me to be on a close reach straight to Winter Harbor. My thinking was: (a) that if I got further from land, the seas might have more room to separate and be more manageable - I have no basis for this, but was briefly tempted by my theory - does that make sense to anybody?; (b) I Could be on a close reach, which seemed preferrable to beam-on or close-hauled and (c) I could still make my intended destination.
*** as another poster listed - you may have been in a tide/current vs. oncoming waves situation, therefore magnifying and shortening the wave period. This is a time when you definitely want the boat 'ends' to be light so that the ends dont 'plunge' when the boat starts hobby-horsing. Bearing off slightly from a beat until 'the timing of the pitching' is more comfortable, etc. is IMHO a better tactic plus giving more time for the bow to rise will result in increased speed overall. In conditions like these I 'scallop' up over the waves - turning at the bottom of a trough so that the bow doesnt bury/stop into the face of an oncoming wave .... and doing the same at the top of the wave so that the boat doesnt 'launch' and 'fall off a wave'. Bearing off from a beat will lessen the pitching and increase the 'time period' of the pitch and roll; the less pitching, the faster and further you go vs. VMG.

3. Did I leave the staysl up too long, or maybe I should have left it out for the duration for better balance.
*** Perry has designed quite large staysail plans for most of his boats. Generally I fly the staysail up to 40+kts and after that I 'severely' flatten it on its club via outhaul .... better able to 'feather/blade-it-out' when momentarily overpowered. A problem with extreme flattening (staysail or very deep reefed main, etc.) is that you wont have the sufficient draft in the sails(s) needed to 'power punch' through large waves. My preference is to deeper reef and then 'power-up' by easing the reef outhaul to create more draft (power) in the sails ... for 'power-punching' into waves. If the staysail is hanked-on, consider to modify the staysl so that you can manually reef the staysail.
If the staysail isnt on a clubfoot where the twist is better controlled, a 'free-flying' staysail (when not beating) will usually be overtwisted at the head and radically overtrimmed in at the foot ... leaving only the middle panels effectively operating with aerodynamic flow. On a staysail (not on clubfoot), you really need a means to control the fore/aft position of the clew (fairleads if this were a 'sloop') .... but the 'usual' on a Perry cutter is an athwartships traveller to control the staysail (for hands off 'short-tacking'); hence, no means to control the fore/aft lead sheet angle of staysail. Simple speak: without a clubfoot you dont have any means to control the twist in your staysail ..... and on any course less than a full beat, only the 'middle' of the sail will be 'working'. The hoyt-boom solves all these 'problems'. The hoyt-boom solves all these 'problems'.

I can beat (high close reach actually) into huge seas (up to 50kts+) with a triple reefed main and FLAT (clubfooted) staysail on a Ty37. The amount of rolling and pitching determines how close or how far down from a beat. I 'scallop steer' up/down wave faces to prevent the bow from plunging and stopping the boat (if possible).

4. My dumbest move - not pulling up the tender and lashing it to the deck before we left - my greatest fear once I was out there was that a wave would flip the inflatable and I'd end up having to just cut it loose - was amazed that it just bobbed like a cork and never was an issue.
**** Very dumb IMHO.... imagine what would have happened if the tender swamped and became a 'sea anchor' or got lifted into the cockpit by a big following wave?
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Must have been on the flood tide, as the current runs pretty strongly north nearshore on the flood. The currents are weaker farther out, but that's not taking you to a safe harbor. I would think that the staysail would help keep you balanced and powered up. In those conditions, from IAH, the other Winter Harbor (on Vinalhaven) might have been a closer, well protected destination, as would Burnt Coat on Swan's Island, which was pretty close. A strong NW-NE in Pretty Marsh, up Blue Hill Bay, is downright bucolic.

This time of year the breezes are cooler, hence denser and pack more power than a warm summer breeze of the same velocity. 40-45 kts true is a lot of wind anyway, make it cold and it's a LOT. I would think the staysail and a scrap of main approximating a storm tri would be the appropriate.

I never tow a dink if anything over 10-15 kts is predicted. Get it up on deck, well lashed. If it's inflatable, deflate and toss in a cockpit locker.

Your observation about the real issue being sea state, not wind strength, is spot on. My guess is that, had you pointed the nose on a broad reach or run, you might have found the trip relatively peaceful. I cross the gulf of Maine several times a year with my wife and young son. I'll gladly head out in 30+ downwind. I'd rather motor in no wind than go upwind in 15-20 kts true (which turns into 20-25 apparent) offshore with family aboard. I want them happy and comfy, so they'll keep sailing with me.

So, was it fun?
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Rich H - thanks for taking the time to give the feedback. Very much appreciated. As for number 4, I imagined both of those scenarios and was extremely unhappy with the position I put myself in there. Got lucky and learned my lesson. As for the "bobbing" effect you describe, I had a lot of it. I had two spare anchors and full propane tanks in the stern lockers and several hundred feet of chain in the bow, which I am sure significnatly exacerbated the problem. Not sure where else to put it in the future, but my guess is getting it more towards the center of the boat in preparation for heavier weather would be a smart thing to do..
sahara - thanks for the reply. I'd have to say that it was and wasn't fun. There were times when it was great, and other moments where I was majorly stressed (not least because of failing to pull up the dinghy). I think most of the stress resulted from not having been in that situation before and being worried that I'd do something dumb. As I said, I had total faith in the boat, it was my relative inexperince (and my crew's) that worried me. Trying to straddle that line between just doing it to get the experience and getting myself in over my head.
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