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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello there,
I'm going to introduce myself first to this amazing community.
I'm a 27yo guy from São Paulo/Brazil who has quite a lot of experience as a backpacker.
I traveled all around Europe (Western)/Americas(US - Florida and East Coast, Canada - Toronto, Mexico, Guatemala, Cuba, Belize, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina and Chile). I've been to Egypt, Israel and India as well. And a lot of 4x4w hard terrain drive and rallying all around Brazil. :)
I like to do trekking, diving, camping, so I have quite the adventurous spirit.
Recently I've been to Abrolhos-BA which is a archipelago 45 miles off the coast. A place to see whales and do a bit of diving. The place was amazing, but what most caught my attention and made me think a lot about my life as a whole, was the fact that we sailed all the way from the dock to a marine reserve, where there is no hotels so we slept on a 32 feet sailboat over 3 nights of pure joy. :D
That was last year, but that life-changing experience made me realize i want to dedicate my life to became a sailor.
Most non-brazilians probrably don't know Amyr Klink, he has been quite the influence on me since i was a little boy. His adventures include going to Brazil to Africa on a Rowboat called "lampada" and the circumnavigation around the Antarctic, back in the 80's when all of it was potentially life-threatening.
So, I'm financially comfortable (not enough to just trow money away), I have a fixed income from investments in real-state. And i have a savings account, so together with the money I can get from selling my car, I can buy a blue water ocean cruiser to enjoy with my friends and family. ;)
Buying the boat in Brazil is not a possibility, with an average of 40%VAT :mad: over imported products and the cost of shipping it from Europe or North America, it would make it financially impossible.
The good news is I have Portuguese citizenship, that means I can buy the boat in Europe/North America, register under Portuguese flag, using my relatives address, and bring it to Brazil. :p
I already looked up a sailing school in Croatia that will teach both basic/advanced skills, Navigation sailing and then I plan on training around the Mediterranean/Black Sea for 6 months before venturing into open ocean.
I'll start the the course ASAP with ultra-sailing in Croatia, so my departure is due to middle of the spring season.

So now is when I start asking for help.

First and foremost: My budget starts at US$ 250.000,00 and can't go over much
Equipment-specific related to the boat I should start looking for:
1. <42ft. or <50ft. keeping in mind possible severe weather conditions and long therm storage. Keel type?
2. Rig Configuration, what kind of gear I should look for? Winches: Electronic? User-friendly?
3. Engine Power and fuel consumption (assuming its a diesel) => Independent Power Generator? Possible upgrade to solar panel and/or wind turbine?
4. Central Air Conditioner? (I do want the comfort, and some places around this tropical country is a living hell.)
5. Safety equipment?
6. Easy docking?
7. Nav. Standard equipment? Radar/VHF/Auto-pilot and so on...
8. Bow thruster?
9. Holding tanks/fuel capacity?
10. Water Maker?
11. Special anti-fouling painting for endurance possibly over a year w/o maintenance?
Whatever else I might be forgetting...

Other aspects to consider:
I don't intend to spend nothing more with decoration/repairs/refurbishment.
I have time to come up with a list of good deals, since the ship is due to be bought in September.
I would also prefer the "owner layouts" prioritizing space and comfort over sheer passenger capacity.
Perfect for me:
1 Master en-suite cabin with head and 1 room with bunker beds, 1 washroom. 1 tiny office. Lots of space for the kitchen/saloon.
Keep in mind a lot of possible bad weather conditions and overall haul/equipment stress on the ship until I reach the maintenance dock here.
What's your take on this situation? I never faced this before nor met someone willing to do it. But it should work as long as I don't skip upgrading any essential long-range/safety equipment.

That'd be all for now.

I appreciate any extra information you can provide,
Yours sincerely, and thank y'all, :)
Rafa
 

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First I'd look very carefully into the rules regarding your VAT.. can you bring a Portuguese boat into Brazil and avoid the VAT? Are there time limits to this idea? If you import this new-to-you boat are you subject to VAT anyhow? Governments tend to be pretty good about plugging those kinds of loopholes. I know that a Canadian can buy a boat offshore, register it as Canadian, and avoid taxes only as long as the boat is never brought 'home'.

That's a healthy budget for a relatively recent, well found 40 something footer, but there's almost no such thing as a used boat that 'needs' nothing. Even 5 year old electronics will soon be outdated.

Sounds like at least one Atlantic crossing is envisioned, but will off shore voyaging be the boat's primary use? That can affect boat type decisions, and the decision whether to sail or ship it to Brazil.

Have you plugged your 'wish list' parameters into Yachtworld? that's a good place to start.

Something like this:

(Sail) Cruiser Boats For Sale
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Regarding the VAT, yes, I can avoid paying it if I don't register it here and use it as a foreigner (under my Portuguese I.D and passport), that might have some repercussion in terms of insurance, but abusive taxes will no longer be a problem.
My plan is to go to Cape Verde (off the coast of Africa), leaving from Algarve-Portugal, then I'd sail to Fernando de Noronha, that's the tricky part, the rest is pretty much within motor-sailing range. But then again at this time is all a wild guess.
yatchworld.com seems to have what I'm looking for, but since I'm aiming for ships that are no older than 5 years, my options are much more limited. And I do need some expensive extra gear as far as I'm concerned.
Thanks
All the help is welcomed
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I have to restrict my search to Europe. (Or if I buy it on the East Coast I'd have to endure 2 cross ocean voyages with no maintenance/dry docking for a very long time)
I'm chatting with a guy now advising me to aim for 50ft+. :confused:
He said bigger is safer when it comes to dealing with severe weather and rogue waves.
 

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Rafa, welcome.

You've asked lots of questions. Many are a matter of personal preference, particulary in types of boats, how much you want to concede in comfort to get speed, and vice-versa.

First, your training plan seems well-thought out, sailing school and 6 months in the Med and excellent way to start.

Now if it were me, I'd start with something smaller than 42 or 50 feet, especially if I'm going to singlehand a lot. You might start out buying something in the mid-30 foot range in the States, then make the coastal hops south to Brazil. Then back up to the States and trade up bigger?

I don't think I would start out with the ocean passage from Europe. But I'm a coastal guy anyway. And if you are going to sail way offshore, I would keep things simple, at least on your first boat, the fewer systems to fail, the better. No air conditioning, simple electronics, no in-mast furling for the main. Type of hull, keel type, and rig? The farther offshore, the more I want a full keel and shorter rig.

If you really want to start with that 50-footer, you will probably will be dealing with some complex (and very comfortable, when they work) systems. And you'll need more advice than i can give, my hands-on experience, at least in sailing, stops at about 42 feet.

Either way, welcome, keep asking, and good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thanks Nolatom! Sure I would start with a smaller vessel, specially because it would cost substantially less money to buy/insure/maintain, the problem is, I want to bring it to Brazil, and, for abusive VAT dodging purposes, I need to register it under a Portuguese flag using my Portuguese citizenship and relatives address. So sure it would be awesome if I could cross the Atlantic with a 30-40ft. But unfortunately it seems too dangerous, for what I've been advised so far (go for a 50ft+), bigger is safer dealing with severe weather and rogue waves.
I sure could use some of the help you can give me relating to safety gear though.
Thanks a million
 

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Hello there,
I'm going to introduce myself first to this amazing community.
I'm a 27yo guy from São Paulo/Brazil who has quite a lot of experience as a backpacker.
I traveled all around Europe (Western)/Americas(US - Florida and East Coast, Canada - Toronto, Mexico, Guatemala, Cuba, Belize, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina and Chile). I've been to Egypt, Israel and India as well. And a lot of 4x4w hard terrain drive and rallying all around Brazil. :)
I like to do trekking, diving, camping, so I have quite the adventurous spirit.
Recently I've been to Abrolhos-BA which is a archipelago 45 miles off the coast. A place to see whales and do a bit of diving. The place was amazing, but what most caught my attention and made me think a lot about my life as a whole, was the fact that we sailed all the way from the dock to a marine reserve, where there is no hotels so we slept on a 32 feet sailboat over 3 nights of pure joy. :D
That was last year, but that life-changing experience made me realize i want to dedicate my life to became a sailor.
Most non-brazilians probrably don't know Amyr Klink, he has been quite the influence on me since i was a little boy. His adventures include going to Brazil to Africa on a Rowboat called "lampada" and the circumnavigation around the Antarctic, back in the 80's when all of it was potentially life-threatening.
So, I'm financially comfortable (not enough to just trow money away), I have a fixed income from investments in real-state. And i have a savings account, so together with the money I can get from selling my car, I can buy a blue water ocean cruiser to enjoy with my friends and family. ;)
Buying the boat in Brazil is not a possibility, with an average of 40%VAT :mad: over imported products and the cost of shipping it from Europe or North America, it would make it financially impossible.
The good news is I have Portuguese citizenship, that means I can buy the boat in Europe/North America, register under Portuguese flag, using my relatives address, and bring it to Brazil. :p
I already looked up a sailing school in Croatia that will teach both basic/advanced skills, Navigation sailing and then I plan on training around the Mediterranean/Black Sea for 6 months before venturing into open ocean.
I'll start the the course ASAP with ultra-sailing in Croatia, so my departure is due to middle of the spring season.

So now is when I start asking for help.

First and foremost: My budget starts at US$ 250.000,00 and can't go over much
Equipment-specific related to the boat I should start looking for:
1. <42ft. or <50ft. keeping in mind possible severe weather conditions and long therm storage. Keel type?
2. Rig Configuration, what kind of gear I should look for? Winches: Electronic? User-friendly?
3. Engine Power and fuel consumption (assuming its a diesel) => Independent Power Generator? Possible upgrade to solar panel and/or wind turbine?
4. Central Air Conditioner? (I do want the comfort, and some places around this tropical country is a living hell.)
5. Safety equipment?
6. Easy docking?
7. Nav. Standard equipment? Radar/VHF/Auto-pilot and so on...
8. Bow thruster?
9. Holding tanks/fuel capacity?
10. Water Maker?
11. Special anti-fouling painting for endurance possibly over a year w/o maintenance?
Whatever else I might be forgetting...

Other aspects to consider:
I don't intend to spend nothing more with decoration/repairs/refurbishment.
I have time to come up with a list of good deals, since the ship is due to be bought in September.
I would also prefer the "owner layouts" prioritizing space and comfort over sheer passenger capacity.
Perfect for me:
1 Master en-suite cabin with head and 1 room with bunker beds, 1 washroom. 1 tiny office. Lots of space for the kitchen/saloon.
Keep in mind a lot of possible bad weather conditions and overall haul/equipment stress on the ship until I reach the maintenance dock here.
What's your take on this situation? I never faced this before nor met someone willing to do it. But it should work as long as I don't skip upgrading any essential long-range/safety equipment.

That'd be all for now.

I appreciate any extra information you can provide,
Yours sincerely, and thank y'all, :)
Rafa
Stay under 41 feet. 51 is huge, far biggger than you need. Keep it simple ,you can add toys later, if you feel the need.
 

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Many ocean passages are safely made with well found boats under 40 feet.. IMO there's little reason to go to 50+ unless you need a lot of space. The on-going costs of maintaining a 38 footer would probably be half that of a 50 footer.

Short handed, unless you get into more complex equipment, smaller has to be better to a point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok, Performance Cruising instead of size.
But, what should be my priorities? What would you consider absolutely essential in terms of safety, range and comfort?
Go for a hypothetical worst case scenario where I would have to endure a storm because I wasn't fast enough. What is the best boat/keel/gear for it?
Thanks again Btw
 

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Ok, Performance Cruising instead of size.
But, what should be my priorities? What would you consider absolutely essential in terms of safety, range and comfort?
Go for a hypothetical worst case scenario where I would have to endure a storm because I wasn't fast enough. What is the best boat/keel/gear for it?
Thanks again Btw
..You'll get as many opinions as responses to wide open questions like that!

The full keel crowd will weigh in, saying you need heavy, full keel, attached rudder, small sturdy rig, etc etc.

Another group will say lightweight but strong, lighter loads, overall faster, etc etc.

I think a good compromise would be a conservative fin keel with an over engineered spade rudder, lots of on-board usable storage, a good cockpit arrangement for the short handed sailor, and a sensible sail plan/sail inventory well set up for reliable, easy reefing. Diesel engine for uncomplicated reliability, a cadillac charging system augmented by solar, and a large water carrying capacity would round out the list.

Truth is, with a 'worst case' storm scenario I doubt a boat exists that could 'out run' them all so ultimately you (and the boat) need to be physically and mentally equipped to deal with whatever might come your way once you leave any coast behind.
 

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Even if you bought a brand new boat, there would be additional costs involved to bring it up to what you would find satisfactory. Also size is relative and depends on your likes and dislikes. A boat as small as an Albin Vega 27 for example has crossed oceans and is really quite capable. Bigger as a rule is proportionately more expensive to operate. 34ft in my opinion is a very good size to single hand and is relatively cost effective as to operation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I see,
Well, I'll probably get a better idea once i start taking classes and going on charter, but then again its always a good idea to start gathering as much knowledge as possible even before I start with the basics. Browsing around all the ships even before I learn how to properly operate them will give me a better idea of the market and prices so it'll be more likely I'll be trained and prepared to take in only the best deals.
I'm happy, for now taking suggestions as what manufacturers/models are favored around here.
 

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...
That was last year, but that life-changing experience made me realize i want to dedicate my life to became a sailor.
... I can buy a blue water ocean cruiser to enjoy with my friends and family. ;)
B...
Olá,

You don't say much and certainly not enough. Ok, you want to be a sailor! That means living on the boat permanently or living in it while sailing on the sailing season?

Friends and family will be living there too? and if not they will sail extensively with you or just now and then? How many are they?

And sailing where? I understand you will bring the boat to Brazil and that means to cross the Atlantic but then you will sail on Brazil, South and North America or do you intend to sail to other continents and eventually to circumnavigate?

Don't forget also the maintenance of a boat is not cheap and increases with size.

This are some questions that need an answer are to be able to give you some help.

Saudações

Paulo
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hello Paulo, good to know there is a fellow countryman here.
Well, I can answer most of the stuff you asked:
1: I'll be dedicating a great deal off my time on the boat, possibly even putting my house on the market for renting. Good satellite internet connection and I'm good to go taking care of business while sailing.
2: Living with me only my wife, friends and family will be always welcomed, but they will go on on their normal routine. My sister, some cousins probably will have time to spend vacation, as will my parents as long as it don't compromise their health, that means probably only coastal cruising with them.
So, so far, only 2 as permanent crew for the heavy duty, but I'm sure we can find some friends now and then who will be willing to go on adventures.
3: Yes, my intention is to go crazy (not Amyr Klink crazy), but enough to take on some really challenging endeavors. We have plenty of time to keep a adventurous life, but now, as we get older, it will be fine to have the comfort of a sailboat to nest while globetrotting.
4: Yes, maintenance and specially insurance worries me a lot, and that is something I'll have to think carefully, but remember, I am aiming for comfort as well not only range, that's one of the reasons I'm stubborn about a bigger boat.
Obrigado Paulo
 

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It seems you are looking for a voyage boat. I would go for the smaller that will fit my needs and the the newer I could get. An older boat means more costs with maintenance less reliability, less sail performance. I would also look for a boat fully loaded with the needed stuff to voyage. It is very expensive to equip a boat like that but a boat equipped like that for sale can not have a much bigger resale value.

I would start looking at French aluminium voyage boats: OVNI, Allures, Cigale and also Plywood/epoxy RM 1200. A great place to look is Canary Islands. Some start dreaming...but change of ideas on the Canary Islands and leave there the boats for sale....at a nicer price than in the continent;).
 
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