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Discussion Starter #1
Hi there! This is my first post. I am in the process of restoring (at least getting serviceable/presentable) a old Helms 25 that I kind of inherited. It needs quite a bit of work and I am slowing working through the list.

I was wondering if any of you Helms 25 owners would mind sharing the specs for all of your running rigging. Pretty much everything needs to be replaced except for the wire portions of the halyards (at least not yet).

I'm also about to attempt to refinish/rebuild by rudder and tiller assembly, but I will do some searching on this and other forums before asking. :D

JT
 

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Welcome JT. What kind of specs are you looking for. I run 3/8 line for my jib & main sheets and also for my line sections of the halyards. You could probably go less diameter with some of the high tech lines out there, but I don't like the feel of anything less than 3/8.
What other information can I give you?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi Wayne thanks for the reply!

I was also looking for the lengths of those lines as well so I can estimate the costs to replace everything. Currently nothing on my Helms is run back to the cockpit, but if its not too difficult to convert or expensive then I would like to make that bit easier on myself as well.

Also what are the specs for your main sheet, jib sheets, and boom vang?

JT
 

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Try these, they're for another 25' boat. Running rigging is more of a personal preference. I'd follow the lengths pretty closely though.


................ LENGTH DIAMETER STYLE COLOR
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


TRAVELER 25 3/8 TROPHY SOLID BLUE

JIBSHEET (2) 40 7/16 ULS WHITE WITH BLUE STRIPES

CUNNINGHAM 20 1/4 YACHT BRAID BLUE LONGITUDINAL STRIPES

CUNNINGHAM 5 5/16 YACHT BRAID BLUE LONGITUDINAL STRIPES

DOCK LINES (2) 25 3/8 NYLON GOLD GOLD 3-STRAND

REEF LINE 22 3/8 LST WHITE WITH RED STRIPES

REEF LINE 22 3/8 LST WHITE WITH BLUE STRIPES

TOPPING LIFT 48 5/16 LST WHITE WITH RED STRIPES

JIB HALYARD 78 5/16 YALE MAXI WHITE WITH RED/BLUE STRIPES

VANG** 50 5/16 YACHT BRAID WHITE WITH LIGHT BLUE FLECKS

FOREGUY 55 1/4 YACHT BRAID RED LONGITUDINAL STRIPES

TWINGS (2)* 13 5/16 TROPHY SOLID BLUE

SPINN. HALYARD* 78 5/16 YALE LIGHT SOLID LIGHT BLUE

MAIN HALYARD 90 1/4 YALE LIGHT YELLOW

HEAVY SPINN.
SHEETS (2)* 55 3/8 TROPHY SOLID RED

LIGHT SPINN.
SHEETS (2)* 52 3/16 TROPHY SOLID RED

TOWLINE* 60 3/8 NYLON GOLD GOLD 3-STRAND

MAINSHEET* 80 7/16 YACHT BRAID BLUE LONGITUDINAL STRIPES

BACKSTAY** 50 3/8 TROPHY SOLID BLACK
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the great info ZZ!

Wayne, did you convert your Helms 25 to all rope? Did you have to replace your sheaves?
 

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No, I still have half wire and half Dacron line. This works well for me and I don't plan on changing it since i don't plan to run all lines to the cockpit. I'm fine with going to the mast.
I'm not too sure there is enough room in our masthead for all rope sheaves. Its pretty tight inside that masthead. You'll have to measure it carefully.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
No, I still have half wire and half Dacron line. This works well for me and I don't plan on changing it since i don't plan to run all lines to the cockpit.
X2

I think I will plan on doing this as well. It is quite a bit cheaper too.

I priced the hardware necessary to run 4 lines to the rear and it was $400 for the fairleads, deck organizers, and rope clutches.

Do you have wire to rope splices? If not what are you using?

Thinking about going with the following:
Any Thoughts???

jib halyard
40' 5/16"

mailsail halyard
40' 5/16"

jib sheet
65' 3/8"

main sheet (4:1)
50' 3/8"

boom vang (4:1)
25' 5/16"
 

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I also run all rope halyards 5/16". I just don't do wire to rope well...You may think of buying a spool of 5/16 Sampson or something like that and learn to do the double braid splice, making your own halyards..big savings.

If there isn't a recent book written about the cost of a free boat there should be. I applaud your intent to revive an old boat like the Helms 25. I have fiddled or fooled with every part of my Helms of course spending more time than necessary. Please let me know if I can help. David #504 Chimera
 

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d3:
It looks like you got your answer about all rope halyards, at least for 5/16 sheaves.
No wire to rope splices for me. Mine has a SS thimble using a nicro press. I have the rope halyard tied to the thimble, but plan to change it to a braid /braid splice around the thimble.

Take Jumaggafanny up on his offer for advise. He has done some amazing things to his Helms 25 with excellent picture documentation.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Wayne25 said:
SS thimble using a nico press

So you are just tying (bowline or similar) your line to a thimble that looks like this on the wire side?


Wayne25 said:
Take Jumaggafanny up on his offer for advise. He has done some amazing things to his Helms 25 with excellent picture documentation.
OK cool I'll look for some of his other posts.

Thanks guys you have helped me out quite a bit!!!
 

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I looked for my old source of Sampson on Ebay and failed to find it. I purchased a 600 spool of Sampson double braid. I made all halyards, Main, Jib, stay'sl, Spinnaker and topping lift. I had over 160 ft left over that I use in a 4:1 tackle that when I hoist to the mast head allows me to hoist my bones aloft. I also use this rig to step my mast. I don't have wire to rope on the lines at all.
I've got dim's for the rudder somewhere, I'll start digging. Chimera's rudder is total custom, balanced w/trim tab so it's of no use to pattern, somewhere I have a drawing of original...I'll look.
Is your boat a pop top model? Does your cockpit drain to forward scuppers that are then routed aft beneath the cockpit?
Have you walked/stepped on the foredeck and coach roof looking for potential soft spots? I know of 2 that have suffered some soft core issues that were repaired. I was suspect of any and all fastners wicking water to core, so I drilled em' all. Of over 200 1" dia. holes I found discolored wood core only beneath the stbd. winch. Improper fastening and bedding will allow water to wick down and destroy the boat in stealth mode.

David
 

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Yes, that's the wire terminal. The PO had 2 half hitches tied and were so tight I couldn't un-tie them but i did seize the end for security. You could tie a bowline and seize the end. I will eventually put a splice around the terminal.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I looked for my old source of Sampson on Ebay and failed to find it.
Here is one source I found. Guess I'll have to get a fid and start practicing my splicing technique.

I've got dim's for the rudder somewhere, I'll start digging. Chimera's rudder is total custom, balanced w/trim tab so it's of no use to pattern, somewhere I have a drawing of original...I'll look.
Thanks! I'm in the process of rebuilding my rudder, assembly and tiller...

Is your boat a pop top model?
She is not a pop-top, just sliding hatch

Does your cockpit drain to forward scuppers that are then routed aft beneath the cockpit?
yes the drains are on either side of the companionway and drain aft

Have you walked/stepped on the foredeck and coach roof looking for potential soft spots?
I have been on the foredeck and have noticed what could be described as soft spots... Are these a major concern? The are on either side of the centerline which seems more firm...
 

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d3 the soft spots aren't too bad if they're not rotting through or around the chainplates. I've just started recoring my boat. A ton of work.

I'd recommend learning to splice. A great skill to have, and you'll never have to pay the outrageous price a rigger charges for pre-made halyards. Just make sure the line you're using can be spliced. Some smaller lines cannot be due to their braid, or lack there of, like parallel braid core.
 

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I'm usually hitting the foredeck hard and at a run,trying to fend off etc. you know failure to plan ahead....so if you're not a fat ass the deck may be all right (for now). Roberto did a foredeck job on his Helms 25 ODALISQUE a few years ago, removing inner layer above V-berth. I had some crappy phone pix of his repairs somewhere. Jamming wood wedge pieces up to hold from below as he relaminated. By doing that repair from inside he saved the gelcoat etc. on foredeck.
Howz your standing rigging? (forestay, split back stay and upper single and double lower shrouds) Look for broken wires (meathooks) kinks and corrosion signs around swages. If you determine ANY of your wire swages are to be replaced please try to use sintered copper swage NOT aluminum, eh. Just no future in alum in this application, regardless what Worst Marine says.

Once you open the sailbags and inspect the sails please let me know. Determine if they are original sails and if repairs are required. On the head sail, look where the spreaders wear on fabric. Get em' out, measure em' wash em' and learn how to fold em' for storage. I keep mine in 48qt igloo coolers, since igloos' won't really hold ice.
I'm like a terrified elephant around mice...fearing they want to chew into the sail for a winter snuggly, eating their way thru several layers, EEK!!
I will do some sail repairs for you free if we can determine what is required. I'm not really up for re-cuts and luff replacementsright now, just repairs. I have 1 recut waiting for Chimera already...
email me [email protected] I have some parts left over from my many rebuild projects. interior wood trim, cable winch w/clutch for C/B, original stem fitting and misc. other.
just lemme no, eh?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Roberto did a foredeck job on his Helms 25 ODALISQUE a few years ago, removing inner layer above V-berth. I had some crappy phone pix of his repairs somewhere. Jamming wood wedge pieces up to hold from below as he relaminated. By doing that repair from inside he saved the gelcoat etc. on foredeck.
That sounds pretty costly for a free boat. Might be worth getting an idea of whats involved though... Probably less costly than putting your foot through the deck though...

Howz your standing rigging? (forestay, split back stay and upper single and double lower shrouds) Look for broken wires (meathooks) kinks and corrosion signs around swages. If you determine ANY of your wire swages are to be replaced please try to use sintered copper swage NOT aluminum, eh. Just no future in alum in this application, regardless what Worst Marine says.
The standing rigging is one of the bright spots on my boat. Everything looks pretty good, no meathooks, and no visible signs of leaks from below.

Once you open the sailbags and inspect the sails please let me know. Determine if they are original sails and if repairs are required. On the head sail, look where the spreaders wear on fabric. Get em' out, measure em' wash em' and learn how to fold em' for storage.
The headsails are in original sailbags and look to be in pretty good shape. I have not measured them yet. The main is on the boom under a cover as it has been for at least the last 2 years. It is in need of some serious cleaning at the least.

The P/O said he hadn't even seen it in two years and it has just been bobbing away in its slip that whole time. The good news is that she is bone dry inside and doesn't appear to have any leaks from the bottom and only one minor one maybe from the topside.

I will do some sail repairs for you free if we can determine what is required. I'm not really up for re-cuts and luff replacements right now, just repairs. I have 1 recut waiting for Chimera already... email me [email protected] I have some parts left over from my many rebuild projects. interior wood trim, cable winch w/clutch for C/B, original stem fitting and misc. other.
just lemme no, eh?
wow thanks so much for the offer! I will have to take you up on that later if needed! I really appreciate it guys! I have already seen how great the boating community is!

JT
 

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Well a brand new or real clean plastic trash can is my wash tub of choice for sails. Add a real light dose of bleach and trisodium phosphate and you're ready to "mix it up a little" ..Dry well, real well.
I constantly have to beware of wasps beneath the main sailcover and tubes of trailer.
Fiberglassing just isn't that expensive if you do the work, it is labor intensive. I like the doing everything I can myself, a learning experience for sure.
The value of a free boat is of course a moving target. I've seen em' sell cheap on Ebay, and well 30 yr old boats, its very subjective. I could get a free boat and still spend a fortune, there is always something. I could care less about resale I'll probably sink her someday anyway!
 

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Ok d3...this thread has gone too long without any pictures of your new boat. Let's see what she looks like!
I don't have a super recent pic, but here is one after a day spent power washing the deck and hull.


Since this pic, all the running rigging has been removed with twine sent up in its place and the tiller/rudder/assembly removed for repair/reglass. If you want more before pics, let me know.
 

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JT:
I bought a spare main companionway hatch, companionway drop boards (3 board design) and all the cockpit and foredeck hatches from an early Helms 25 like yours that was being cut up for trash. I have a pop up, so the companionway hatch doesn't fit mine. If your interested I have them for sale on Craigslist. classifieds - craigslist
I figured these would be almost impossible items to replace.
 
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